Disguise is OK for Camouflage? - DPChallenge Forums

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG APO IF for Pentax

11/16/2005 12:24:24 PM · #1

I'm trying to start a new thread because I'd like to get some opinions:

I got some comments that it is not camouflage, but in the challenge description:

"Camouflage is used to conceal something through the use of disguise, coloring or misrepresentation"

Thanks for your help.

Nobody

Pentax K-S2

11/16/2005 12:40:19 PM · #2

You will find lots of different opinions on this, but I think of camouflage as being intended to make something dissapear or blend in. Disguises, if their intent is to make something dissapear or blend in, would qualify, but a Disguise, just intended to make something look different (but still be visible), would not.

graphicfunk

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/16/2005 12:45:24 PM · #3

As usual there are members who have a preconceived meaning about all that touches their lives. They dwell within the walls they create and act accordingly. This gives way to interpretations that are constricted.
It happens all the time.

Camouflage has many meanings. The viewer is at once challenge to determine what is being hid or disguised. In the wild the camouflage is popular with animals that almost blend in into their environment. Some can not get past this despcription. Camouflage is rampant in the darkness and shadows and some in pure disguise. The truth of the matter is that even natures camouflage are amazing but a discerning eye can find them. Consider: suppose you camouflage something where nobody can see it. This will fail. What about a camouflage in your face. You see, it takes imagination to perceive.

So yes, you are right. The intent of this challenge was not to make an image where nobody can find it, because if all can find it than just how camouflage is it? The challenge included disguised because disguise is an integral part of camouflage but those with limited understanding will shut the doors if they feel the image is too blatant. Now, what about an image that is blatant or in your face but then it represents a concept where its spirit contains that which is hid yet it makes itself felt. You see, one must allow a wide latitude because the fences we place around us do not negate that there is more to what we perceive and conceive.

pearlseyes

Canon EOS R7

11/16/2005 01:02:42 PM · #4

Wow! You sure have a way with words Daniel. You nailed it!

11/16/2005 01:02:58 PM · #5

Disguise is all about context.

for example there is a room full of men, all wearing white shirts, black ties and had facial hair, with one woman in a red dress. She would stand out like a sore thumb. But if she was to dress like the men, don a fake mustache, style her hair in a manly way, she would be much harder to find in the room of men. She has disguised/ camouflaged herself.
But, if you took away all the men from the room and just left a woman in drag, the context is removed and she goes from being "woman in camouflaged" to "woman in drag" with the former taking a back seat because the reason she has dressed in this particular way is no longer there.

LeeD

Canon EOS-30D

11/16/2005 01:40:54 PM · #6

Originally posted by mesmeraj:

Disguise is all about context...

Well put!

11/16/2005 01:44:24 PM · #7

OK, so if I take a picture of a man disguised of another thing, is it Camouflage? I think the difference is sooo tiny for a non English person to understand. In Italian camouflage and disguise can be considered synonyms.

11/16/2005 01:48:32 PM · #8

i don't understand whay you mean by "disguised of another thing"

LeeD

Canon EOS-30D

11/16/2005 02:08:28 PM · #9

Originally posted by srugolo:

... In Italian camouflage and disguise can be considered synonyms.

As far as I'm concerned, I think they can be considered synonyms in English as well.

11/16/2005 02:22:08 PM · #10

Originally posted by mesmeraj:

i don't understand whay you mean by "disguised of another thing"

Sorry for the bad English. I mean masked like for carnival or like street artists.

funnylooks

Nikon D100

Lensbaby 2.0

11/16/2005 02:25:38 PM · #11

Etymology: French, from camoufler to disguise
1 : the disguising especially of military equipment or installations with paint, nets, or foliage; also : the disguise so applied
2 a : concealment by means of disguise b : behavior or artifice designed to deceive or hide
(from Merriam-Webster) other definitions are similar

To me, the 'disguise' is an integral part of camoflauge... otherwise it's just hiding.

11/16/2005 02:45:00 PM · #12

Originally posted by srugolo:

Originally posted by mesmeraj:
i don't understand whay you mean by "disguised of another thing"

Sorry for the bad English. I mean masked like for carnival or like street artists.

quite alright :)
Again i think it would be about context. If we could see *why* they were wearing a mask it would make sense.

I think the easiest definition of camouflage is "to blend in" or "to become the same"
the opposite of camouflage would be "to stand out"

So if there was a crowd of people and they were all wearing a carnival mask, you could not tell one from the next. But if only one man in the group wore the mask, he would stand out, because he would look different from everyone else. He would still be disguised because you couldn't see his real face, but he would not be camouflaged because he looked different from everyone else.

Does this help explain the way we use the words in english?

11/16/2005 03:04:46 PM · #13

YeS!! Now I understood. My entry is not OK for this challenge. :-(

Originally posted by mesmeraj:

Originally posted by srugolo:

Originally posted by mesmeraj:
i don't understand whay you mean by "disguised of another thing"

Sorry for the bad English. I mean masked like for carnival or like street artists.

quite alright :)
Again i think it would be about context. If we could see *why* they were wearing a mask it would make sense.

I think the easiest definition of camouflage is "to blend in" or "to become the same"
the opposite of camouflage would be "to stand out"

So if there was a crowd of people and they were all wearing a carnival mask, you could not tell one from the next. But if only one man in the group wore the mask, he would stand out, because he would look different from everyone else. He would still be disguised because you couldn't see his real face, but he would not be camouflaged because he looked different from everyone else.

Does this help explain the way we use the words in english?

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

11/16/2005 03:11:52 PM · #14

A lot of voters don't look past the challenge title and have a pre-conceived idea what that means and vote accordingly.

I think there is a lot more to camouflage then blending into the surrounds and yes disguise is an integral part of camouflage.

Unfortunately this is a pretty conservative photographic forum and those who dare to be different get hit hard in the voting.

I think Daniel summed it up perfectly I advise all voters to read his post.

11/16/2005 03:22:40 PM · #15

aww sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
At least now those comments you were getting might make a bit more sense.
In the future feel free to PM me if you want to check on the english use of a word in the challenge description, and i'll try to help BEFORE the challenge instead of after ;)

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

11/16/2005 03:23:30 PM · #16

Camouflage means to blend in to your immediate environment/surroundings.
Disguise means to be something other than what you really are.

I've seen many bugs that camouflage themselves by having a body or wings that match the plant/tree bark so perfectly you can barely see them.

I've seen other bugs that wear a disguise, for example moths with patterns on their wings that resemble large eyes to confuse or scare off predators.

JMO.

disclaimer - examples used are not of any specific challenge entries, but rather things I have seen in the area that I live.

11/16/2005 03:27:13 PM · #17

Tim, i'm completely agree with Daniels assertion.
Mine was meerly a linguistic translation, not a challenge interpretation.
English is a very confusing language because we use words to mean more than one thing. It's my only language and i am having a hard time with it haha.

edit - like my spelling ugh

Message edited by author 2005-11-16 15:29:16.

rapid

Canon PowerShot A540

11/16/2005 03:27:23 PM · #18

I am getting comments that they can't see the camouflage in my photograph. I think it all depends on the personal interpretation of camouflage or disguise. In my photograph I tried to go to a deeper meaning of the word....an unnatural colour for something could be disguising something.
In particular...my photograph portraits an view of [removed] for some this could be valid and for others it may not...its a question of interpretation...as is in all the arts.

Message edited by mk - discussing current entry.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

11/16/2005 03:34:42 PM · #19

If I show up on your doorstep, dressed like a tomato, then I am in disguise. If I am hiding in a feild of tomatoes, then my tomato costume works as camoflage.
It is the use of some ruse to blend into surroundings; without sufficient backround to blend into it isn't camoflaged. Syrian army paratroopers use a camoflage of pink, black and tan stripes and blobs on their pants. It might work in the desert, but in an urban envorinment it demands attention, is this still camoflage?

11/16/2005 03:40:40 PM · #20

it is still camouflage the noun but no longer camouflage the verb.

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

11/16/2005 03:40:51 PM · #21

Originally posted by glad2badad:

This is a classic example of my earlier post, please read the challenge description.

Canon EOS-20D