PS Adjustment Layers Question - DPChallenge Forums

11/12/2005 06:16:34 PM · #1

Let's say I want to have a duplicate layer which has all my cloning on it (so I could remove it later if I wanted). What is the easiest technique to have adjustment layers affect the Duplicate Layer as well as the Background Layer without merging the two?

11/12/2005 06:23:26 PM · #2

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

If you duplicate a layer for cloning purposes it would normally completely obscure the background layer underneath. You have a reason why you want to have the background layer show through?

Message edited by author 2005-11-12 18:23:55.

11/12/2005 06:26:45 PM · #3

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I usually just dupe the background image directly above it in layers, but sometimes it seems that dodge/burn works best after all layers have been flattened. If you have any effects layers above the dodge/brun it seems to do weird things.

I'd be interested to hear what a more advanced PS'r has to say about this though.

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

11/12/2005 06:31:36 PM · #4

To make it more clear, the point is so that my cloning is recoverable after I save the file as PSD. If you clone straight on the background layer, you can't "unclone" after you've saved it and the history is gone. I thought it would be nice to have a layer where the cloning took place so that if I wanted to reclone, I could just discard the layer and start over. However, the adjustment layers present a problem and was wondering if people knew ways around it.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

11/12/2005 06:39:10 PM · #5

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

What is the easiest technique to have adjustment layers affect the Duplicate Layer as well as the Background Layer without merging the two?

The adjustment layer(s) will affect all layers underneath them, so just make sure the adjustment layer(s) are above the image layers.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

11/12/2005 06:40:15 PM · #6

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

My PS workflow is to duplicate the background layer right off the bat and perform noise reduction, cloning and possibly other changes to the duplicated layer. I NEVER modify the background layer, it always remains untouched for recovery purposes. Then I add other adjustment layers above it as needed. Does that make sense?

Message edited by author 2005-11-12 18:41:08.

Apple iPhone 5

11/12/2005 06:44:58 PM · #7

Like this;

kenskid

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

11/12/2005 06:45:00 PM · #8

That is sort of what I do for cloning and such. However, I just use the background layer as a backup in the "short term". I usually create a whole new copy of my original and store it in a different folder.

This comes in handy in the challenges!

KS

11/12/2005 06:47:29 PM · #9

Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
What is the easiest technique to have adjustment layers affect the Duplicate Layer as well as the Background Layer without merging the two?

The adjustment layer(s) will affect all layers underneath them, so just make sure the adjustment layer(s) are above the image layers.

Thanks kirbic, I guess this is all I needed to know...

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/12/2005 06:49:19 PM · #10

Originally posted by wavelength:

I do not use the dodge and burn tools. I use a different technique to effect dodge and burn without using those tools on a data layer that I save as a step near the end of the workflow.

To effect dodge and burn I add a 50% greyscale layer, usually at the top of the stack, and paint with black and/or white to effect dodge and burn. This has the major advantage that it does not affect the base image and can easily be removed or modified on later edits.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

11/12/2005 06:52:53 PM · #11

ANY layer can be moved in relation to any other layer by dragging it up or down in the layers palette. That said, since the BG layer always starts on the bottom, any time you duplicate the BG layer it will always show up immediately above the original BG layer, and any adjustment layers you had made earlier will always be stacked above that.

It's true that the order in which adjustment layers are stacked can have a significant effect on how they affect the image beneath. This is especially true of levels and curves, both of which affect colors as they are pushed to the extreme. So in general it's best to adjust levels/curves before doing color adjustments.

Layers can also be linked, so they keep their relationship to each other. This can be very useful if you divide the image into, say, "sky" and "foreground" with a selection tool, and then do levels, hue/sat, and selective color on each of these selections separately.

Robt.

11/12/2005 07:37:46 PM · #12

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by wavelength:

I usually just dupe the background image directly above it in layers, but sometimes it seems that dodge/burn works best after all layers have been flattened. If you have any effects layers above the dodge/brun it seems to do weird things.

I'd be interested to hear what a more advanced PS'r has to say about this though.

I do not use the dodge and burn tools. I use a different technique to effect dodge and burn without using those tools on a data layer that I save as a step near the end of the workflow.

To effect dodge and burn I add a 50% greyscale layer, usually at the top of the stack, and paint with black and/or white to effect dodge and burn. This has the major advantage that it does not affect the base image and can easily be removed or modified on later edits.

I should have clarified, I meant in conjunction with specific effects layers. I've used contrast masks before (50% grayscale inverted) but i've not tried your method. The more specific problem that I have had is that dodge/burn becomes distorted, especially when adding a gblur layer at high radius, and applying on hard/soft/vivid light, or even multiply. It tends to create weird artifacts, and I've not had time to work around it. Your method may actually be what I'm looking for though, I was thinking more along the lines of a high radius high-pass filter set to grayscale and inverted might work also...

th3ph17

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

11/12/2005 07:45:18 PM · #13

cloning/healing in photoshop is my bread&butter, full time work. I use CS, which allows me to clone or heal onto a new EMPTY layer, but taking all other layers as the source.

every time i hit a point i'm happy with for a particular section [wrinkles under the eye for example] i'll make a new layer and keep cloning/healing. That way all of my different repaired areas are seperate layers--and i can lower the opacity a bit if things are looking too flat.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

11/12/2005 07:56:39 PM · #14

Originally posted by th3ph17:

One more reason to go out and blow $550 huh? Still, doesn't really help with the dodge/burn problem. Unless it will also let you dodge/burn on a blank layer?

Spork99

OM System OM-1

11/12/2005 09:39:43 PM · #15

Originally posted by stdavidson:

That's basically what I do.

Create layer > Select Overlay type and check the "fill with 50% grey" box > set brush Opacity to ~ 30% or so > paint with white to dodge, black to burn.

11/12/2005 10:09:31 PM · #16

Photoshop is like a great work of literature (I was going to say the Bible...but I didn't want this to turn into "one of those" threads...), you can use/read it for years and still learn things every day.

I've never really done dodge/burn much, but liked it on my Image Grain selection (I was trying to be a heida wannabe). I'll try this 50% grayscale trick. Sounds like a winner...

11/12/2005 11:32:31 PM · #17

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

It gets even better than dodge and burn...

If you do a color range selection first then you can choose a color eyedropper selection to paint in the 50% greyscale layer within that selection to bring out the true colors your camera failed to record properly.

11/12/2005 11:46:24 PM · #18

Originally posted by stdavidson:

you just made my brain twitch... how's that go again?