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11/09/2005 05:03:21 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
There is a lot here to answer too. IMO, you place far to much weight on challenge results. It is very unclear to me that creativity and challenge placement are easily related.
Redundant, as far as I know, means.... 'no longer needed or useful'. Would you please explain your meaning for, 'If risk means creativity, then the statement is redundant'? |
Sorry, I'll explain a little more. Here's the main jist.
1) I agree it is unclear that creativity and challenge placement are related. The biggest factor relating to challenge results is technical proficiency. Pick a random challenge and look at finishers 1-10, 100-110, 200-210, and so on. You can fairly easily see a decrease in techincal excellence as the finishing place gets lower. What you do not see is necessarily an increase or decrease in creativity. There are creative pictures in the top tier and creative pictures in the bottom one in approximately equal amounts. Because this is true I do not feel the statement "creativity is frowned upon" is valid. I would be more open to the statement that "creativity is not rewarded", but I would still have reservations about even that.
2) Redundant meant "repeating". I was saying your possible definitions of Creative and Risk-taking were the same, so why say both? |
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11/09/2005 05:16:35 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Sorry, I'll explain a little more. Here's the main jist.
1) I agree it is unclear that creativity and challenge placement are related. The biggest factor relating to challenge results is technical proficiency. Pick a random challenge and look at finishers 1-10, 100-110, 200-210, and so on. You can fairly easily see a decrease in techincal excellence as the finishing place gets lower. What you do not see is necessarily an increase or decrease in creativity. There are creative pictures in the top tier and creative pictures in the bottom one in approximately equal amounts. Because this is true I do not feel the statement "creativity is frowned upon" is valid. I would be more open to the statement that "creativity is not rewarded", but I would still have reservations about even that.
2) Redundant meant "repeating". I was saying your possible definitions of Creative and Risk-taking were the same, so why say both? |
Thank you.
1. I would agree that, 'creativity is not rewarded' might be closer to the truth.
2. Not a definition that comes to mind for me but you are right. I definitely think you used it correctly and agree that risk-taking and creativity are closely aligned. (Too bad in a way...) |
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11/09/2005 05:36:19 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
Thank you.
1. I would agree that, 'creativity is not rewarded' might be closer to the truth.
2. Not a definition that comes to mind for me but you are right. I definitely think you used it correctly and agree that risk-taking and creativity are closely aligned. (Too bad in a way...) |
Guess that depends on your definition of risk-taking?
Everyone keeps bandying about the "risky" and "courageous" term, is that really apt to use such ideas in a photography contest that has no prizes? There's no risk associated here beyond getting a bad score from a bunch of other photographers that are over-critical most of the time.
But our job here is to push each one of the rest of us to be better. To move past what we have done and move on to what we will do.
All this is just a little much, and not even brought up by most of the people who scored so low.
I looked again at the low scorers this morning, and I have my own opinions on some of them, som I thought too low, some where they should be maybe, but I wouldn't have scored these in the top 20 even.
All of these photo's had problems with them, some compositional, some lacking strong subject matter, color weight and balance, whatever. Is it really a problem that people vote for what they like instead of what pushed the boundaries only? The point is to do both. Push the boundaries and expand your creativity, AND make a good photo.
If you're so ultra creative that you go beyond what actually works, you've failed your task. Go on to the next and learn from your mistakes. Go re-shoot, post it in the forums, and see what others can help you learn. Or just get over it, and move on to the next challenge.
It is a new day.
Message edited by author 2005-11-09 17:39:28.
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11/09/2005 06:55:35 PM · #79 |
[quote=wavelength] If you're so ultra creative that you go beyond what actually works, you've failed your task./quote]
That 'IS' indeed an interesting take on creativity. What may I ask is this 'what works'? Who defines that? Imagine 'failing' at exploration? Hmmmmm........?
Message edited by author 2005-11-09 18:55:54. |
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11/09/2005 07:03:05 PM · #80 |
| My photography teacher used to call shots of waterfalls 'chocolate box shots' - Because it's the type of photo you would typically see on the lid of a box of chocolates... |
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11/09/2005 07:04:19 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
My photography teacher used to call shots of waterfalls 'chocolate box shots' - Because it's the type of photo you would typically see on the lid of a box of chocolates... |
Very witty and to the point.... |
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11/09/2005 07:16:00 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
[quote=wavelength] If you're so ultra creative that you go beyond what actually works, you've failed your task./quote]
That 'IS' indeed an interesting take on creativity. What may I ask is this 'what works'? Who defines that? Imagine 'failing' at exploration? Hmmmmm........? |
Okay, it you're in a photography contest, you're obviously not just going to look at only what you like in photography. This is all a popularity contest, but not for people, (hopefully) just photos. What makes a popular photo here is a lot of the time fairly standard but great pictures, you'll get a few outside the box ideas that are pulled of exceptionally, and those ones usually win or at least place very well.
If the point is to win a contest (if your point is otherwise, you don't care what you're score is right?) then you need to consider your audience, and consider the challenge. You can push the boundaries of the "acceptable" range of definitions for each contest, but one step too far and people feel like you're not competing in the contest, but trying to pass off your specialty as a challenge entry. Sometimes this can work, sometimes not. It's all subjective, but you still have to think about the audience.
I've been trying to consider each challenge as a request from a paying customer for a specific type of photo. If that were you're model, then how much is too far? Well, anything that only very loosely connects is too far. ON THE OTHER HAND, people taking a direct single definition only vision of the challenge takes the creativity aspect out of it.
I guess I'm saying there's a fine line, and you're score can indicate if you've crossed it. There may be a certain subset of the group that will love what you did, but the majority will not get it, and you've failed the purpose here. In a contest, the purpose is to win. If you simply want to push the boundaries of acceptance, there are many other venues than this one that are actually more approving of that type of off the wall creativity and completely outside the box photography. To each his own, but you have to find the audience sometimes to express your art to.
You can't just take a country music singer and plop him into the hood and expect him to do well can you? Same thing applies here and every other photo site out there.
Message edited by author 2005-11-09 19:19:23.
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11/09/2005 07:41:05 PM · #83 |
| Out of the box will never win a majority of contests because then, by definition, it would no longer be out of the box. We see "standard pictures" win repeatedly because our idea of what is "standard" comes from what wins. It's all circular. |
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11/09/2005 08:04:19 PM · #84 |
[quote=wavelengthThis is all a popularity contest, but not for people, (hopefully) just photos. [/quote]
I agree with you wavelength and Dr. Achoo.
I hope that this site and its members consider photos more so than people. Sometimes it is hard to tell... |
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