Shutter Speed - Courage not rewarded

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

11/09/2005 09:09:44 AM · #26

Originally posted by doctornick:

I'm getting pretty aggravated by all these after-challenge-results poo-pooing and insulting of the winners...They won because they deserved to win and Bravo to them!

I'm not insulting the winners, its just that I have a different opinion on what my take on the challenge should be. They won because they have a nice photo. Its not outside the box for me though. I'm trying to learn from this site but it can be stifling because I see the same photos all the time. I did a very nice photo for the rain challenge and I was told that "seen it before, be a little more original". So I try to think outside the box. I've been told I'm "too creative"...so tell me what the heck you people want!! I tried to be creative with my Friday Night Football shot. I'm so confused on what you all want. Anyone have an opinion on that??

alanfreed

Nikon Z9

11/09/2005 09:12:27 AM · #27

Originally posted by backdream:

Sorry Alan, I didn't know that I must have some photos in my portfolio in order to be allowed to have an opinion.

No, I'm just quite anxious to see what non-banal, hit-'em-out-of-the-park, ultra-creative shots you are going to bring to the plate for us.

11/09/2005 09:13:10 AM · #28

Originally posted by alansfreed:

Originally posted by backdream:
IMHO all (or almost all) photos which had a high rating in "Shutter Speed" were quite banal, something you can say you've seen hundreds times.

It's always interesting to hear this sort of argument from someone who has participated in no challenges and has no portfolio images posted...

hey now....that's just out of line. Who the heck do you think you are? This is very upsetting to see someone from SC say this. I guess if you aren't some of the top ribbon getters then we aren't allowed to have an opinion. If that is how you feel about the guy, why does this site allow people who don't participate in challenges to vote? Being quite the elitist aren't we now?

11/09/2005 09:14:15 AM · #29

Originally posted by alansfreed:

Originally posted by backdream:
Sorry Alan, I didn't know that I must have some photos in my portfolio in order to be allowed to have an opinion.

No, I'm just quite anxious to see what non-banal, hit-'em-out-of-the-park, ultra-creative shots you are going to bring to the plate for us.

Alan...now you're really out of line. That's just being nasty.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

11/09/2005 09:21:22 AM · #30

Alan - I'm with you on this one. It's also interesting how someone has seen a "banal" entry "hundreds" of times when they've only been on board less than a month and cast 600 votes.

It's only fair to wonder what kind of photography one with such a strong opinion could bring to the plate.

Originally posted by alansfreed:

alanfreed

Nikon Z9

11/09/2005 09:24:05 AM · #31

Originally posted by gayle43103:

Alan...now you're really out of line. That's just being nasty.

I don't think I'm being any more out-of-line than someone who is essentially downgrading the work of the majority of photographers here, labeling it as uncreative, and is criticizing the voters for rewarding shots that he doesn't deem to be up to his standards.

This kind of thread pops up every few weeks, and nine times out of ten, it is started by someone who has no portfolio and hasn't entered a challenge. I would take this kind of thread much less personally and constructively if it came from someone who has at least given it a shot here.

I'm sure most of the photographers and voters on the site don't take being labeled as "uncreative" or "banal" lightly. I hardly think that's fair, especially from someone who isn't backing it up with his own examples.

Message edited by author 2005-11-09 09:25:09.

sabphoto

Samsung Galaxy S8/S8+

11/09/2005 09:24:08 AM · #32

Originally posted by gayle43103:

It seems that no matter what the challenge is, if you have a good photo it wins...

ok see here is where I was in error, I thought it was supposed to be the good photos that win. I have failed to ever see an image here win that did not fit the challenge.

There very well may be some more original images in the challenge but if they were not found interesting, stunning or even technically good then they were probably scored accordingly. I tend to vote lower on images that don't hold my interest or seem snapshotish not whether it is original or not if I don't like to look at it then sorry it won't get any higher votes.

backdream

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/09/2005 09:29:58 AM · #33

Glad, I see you're deducing my experience by the fact that I'm quite new to DPC. Yep, just be aware that DPC isn't the only place in the world where you can find photography.
When I say I've seen something hundreds times I mean I've seen that thing hundred times, maybe here or in the rest of this big world.
Not only, you keep believing I'm a photographer myself, while I may be a collector, a book publisher, an editor...

11/09/2005 09:39:01 AM · #34

Ya know what Alan, then don't let people who haven't participated in challenges vote. Good Lord knows only those who have actually held a camera in their hand should be able to have an opinion. So bring it on is your opinion. Back it up is what you say. I'm not a good photographer, I know that, I have alot to learn. So what is next, I can't have an opinion either because I haven't gotten a ribbon or I'm not on SC? When does it end? Who is good enough to have an opinion? Answer those questions for me.

PS...something my Mother taught me, if you don't like something on TV or a book you're reading, don't watch it, don't read it, go to something you like. Why is it that because we have a difference of opinion, your opinion is the only one that is right. That just because who won, is the one that everyone has to like. If we didn't have opinions, we'd be boring.

Message edited by author 2005-11-09 09:45:31.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

11/09/2005 09:41:20 AM · #35

Federico - You make a valid point as to your potential merits as a photography critic.

Personally, I thought your comment was a bit harsh and out of line. Perhaps we need to get to know you better. Given some time, additional forum postings, voting and comment record...then perhaps I'll change my view.

Coming out as you did, basically shooting down images posted by many people in this community that obviously have some merit, at least to this community based on the votes, is going to draw some heat.

JMHO.

Originally posted by backdream:

alanfreed

Nikon Z9

11/09/2005 09:45:45 AM · #36

Originally posted by gayle43103:

Who is good enough to have an opinion? Answer those questions for me.

Well, obviously I'm not allowed to have an opinion. Ironic, don't ya think?

justin_hewlett

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

11/09/2005 09:46:55 AM · #37

Originally posted by gayle43103:

You keep ranting on about not being able to have an opinion. Now tell me, who on this site told you that you can't have an opinion? You are entitled to your opinion and no one is going to deny that.

And Alan never said that a person should submit to challenges or have a portfolio in order to cast votes, he simply shared with us a trend he's noticed.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/09/2005 09:49:02 AM · #38

Originally posted by alansfreed:

Originally posted by gayle43103:
Who is good enough to have an opinion? Answer those questions for me.

Well, obviously I'm not allowed to have an opinion. Ironic, don't ya think?

but you saying that neither can we.

backdream

Canon EOS-20D

11/09/2005 09:51:19 AM · #39

Thanks glad2badad, and I understand I have to apologize to those who may have felt slashed by my comment. I just wanted to share my opinion with others but I see I've been somewhat too aggressive.
So let's wait and see, I will just keep looking at DPC and voting on challenges, and I'll do my best to leave useful comments.

11/09/2005 09:53:45 AM · #40

Originally posted by justin_hewlett:

Originally posted by gayle43103:
Ya know what Alan, then don't let people who haven't participated in challenges vote. Good Lord knows only those who have actually held a camera in their hand should be able to have an opinion. So bring it on is your opinion. Back it up is what you say. I'm not a good photographer, I know that, I have alot to learn. So what is next, I can't have an opinion either because I haven't gotten a ribbon or I'm not on SC? When does it end? Who is good enough to have an opinion? Answer those questions for me.

You keep ranting on about not being able to have an opinion. Now tell me, who on this site told you that you can't have an opinion? You are entitled to your opinion and no one is going to deny that.

And Alan never said that a person should submit to challenges or have a portfolio in order to cast votes, he simply shared with us a trend he's noticed.

But he called the guy out saying back up your opinions. He or I or anyone else shouldn't have to back up our opinions. Its our opinions. What I am sick of is people coming in and saying that we "insult" the winners....I haven't done that. This is all very stupid in my opinion. But calling someone out and telling them to show a better photo then what has won...that's just wrong. My opinions are mine and your's and Alan's and anyone elses opinions are just that, your's. But don't tell me my opinion is wrong.

Message edited by author 2005-11-09 09:57:06.

11/09/2005 09:53:45 AM · #41

No problem...look forward to getting to know you a little better. I can be quite opinionated as well. ;^)

Originally posted by backdream:

11/09/2005 09:55:59 AM · #42

Originally posted by backdream:

NO...don't apologize! If you do that then you conform. You leave a comment that you feel is necessary. Keep sharing your opinions.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

11/09/2005 09:57:25 AM · #43

Originally posted by gayle43103:

...But calling someone out and telling them to show a better photo then what has won...that's just wrong. ...

It wasn't just the winner(s) that were being put down/critiqued (whatever you want to call it)...it was a block (not quantified) of "high scoring" entries. Think that is where a big part of the rub came in, to make such a large generalization.

justin_hewlett

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

11/09/2005 09:58:42 AM · #44

Originally posted by gayle43103:

Originally posted by justin_hewlett:

Originally posted by gayle43103:
Ya know what Alan, then don't let people who haven't participated in challenges vote. Good Lord knows only those who have actually held a camera in their hand should be able to have an opinion. So bring it on is your opinion. Back it up is what you say. I'm not a good photographer, I know that, I have alot to learn. So what is next, I can't have an opinion either because I haven't gotten a ribbon or I'm not on SC? When does it end? Who is good enough to have an opinion? Answer those questions for me.

You keep ranting on about not being able to have an opinion. Now tell me, who on this site told you that you can't have an opinion? You are entitled to your opinion and no one is going to deny that.

And Alan never said that a person should submit to challenges or have a portfolio in order to cast votes, he simply shared with us a trend he's noticed.

But he called the guy out saying back up your opinions. He or I or anyone else shouldn't have to back up our opinions. Its our opinions. What I am sick of is people coming in and saying that we "insult" the winners....I haven't done that. This is all very stupid in my opinion. But calling someone out and telling them to show a better photo then what has won...that's just wrong. My opinions are mine and your's and Alan's and anyone elses opinions are just that, your's.

If you don't like a photo and you share your opinion, that's fine. But when you cross the line is when you blatantly make fun of the photographer and pass off his photo as "banal" and "somethign that's been done a hundred times." Chances are, it's the first time for the photographer, and just because the image isn't radically revolutionary doesn't mean it's uncreative or even redundant. It's a bit harsh isn't it?

petrakka

11/09/2005 09:59:16 AM · #45

My Opinion: Who the heck cares if it's been done 86576356 times, if it's a better image, then it's a better image. Nothing is ever really original, it's all been done before by someone, somewhere, to some degree. What matters is just if you make it work and how well you make it work, and what you do to make it stand out.

The low scoring images simply did not work for the majority of voters, and since this site is based on the opinion of the public that frequent it and they all had an equal vote, there is no reason to complain about challenge scores, ever. They're called as their seen.

It's ok to be bummed about your score and think your image was better than the score it got, but it wasn't better to the people of DPC.

Also don't judge your photographic ability by your scores, dpc is just one little niche in the general audience who may perceive your images in a different manner. Can this thread be done now? I hope I killed it.

Message edited by author 2005-11-09 10:00:47.

justin_hewlett

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

11/09/2005 10:02:18 AM · #46

Originally posted by gayle43103:

Originally posted by backdream:
Thanks glad2badad, and I understand I have to apologize to those who may have felt slashed by my comment. I just wanted to share my opinion with others but I see I've been somewhat too aggressive.
So let's wait and see, I will just keep looking at DPC and voting on challenges, and I'll do my best to leave useful comments.

NO...don't apologize! If you do that then you conform. You leave a comment that you feel is necessary. Keep sharing your opinions.

What? They resolved their differences and apologized to each other. They didn't give up their opinions, they're just tolerant of each other's views. What more can you ask for? If they would not have apologized to each other, they'd have likely been bitter to each other and that's no fun for anyone.

11/09/2005 10:08:02 AM · #47

First of all, granted I would have liked to have gotten a better score, I'd like to have a better camera to get a better score but I don't so I do the best I can, but I'm not bummed. You people could give a crap less whether I'm upset with my score or not. And I'm sure you don't care about my opinions BUT I have NEVER made fun of another photographer. I have been made fun of but I would never do that to someone else's work. I have an opinion on it but I wouldn't insult or make fun of them. I try very hard at what I'm doing and I guess if I'm happy with what I turn out, then that's all the matters. There are a few on this site that have helped me out and I have learned so much from them. Don't just my ability on my scores...no I don't do that because I have some great photo that aren't from challenges.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

11/09/2005 10:09:12 AM · #48

I entered this.

Yes, it's a small waterfall. Believe it or not, it's the first time I've made an effort to capture this type of image where the water flow is smoothed out with a longer exposure.

In a way I was "courageous" in that I've not done it before and I don't really have the equipment to do it correctly. Had to use several common filters (Cokin) that I had in my bag to try it (one being a standard blue 80A meant for indoor use from my old film days). Still wasn't exactly what I wanted to achieve.

Not sure what point I'm trying to make here...I guess sometimes you just don't know the story behind the image. Yes - this example is a "done before" image, but for me it wasn't the "easy" way out. And my "courage" WAS rewarded with a decent score and finish.

My additional 2 cents. ;^)

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

11/09/2005 10:14:28 AM · #49

Originally posted by gayle43103:

What kind of attitude is that? He did not back off he apologized for comments that could be construed as rude. There is a difference between making tactful critiques and being blatantly rude....You can express the same opinion without being rude and condescending.