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11/08/2005 11:20:45 PM · #1 |
//www.deandi.com/photos/110905backyard/
I took all of these with my D70 with the Nikkor 70-300 1.4-5.6 G lens. The quality on a lot of them are awful, particularly on the birds in flight:
1/320th sec, f/5.6 (shutter speed priority), 200 ISO, 300mm
And also on still shots like this one:
1/320th sec at f/9, (shutter speed priority) 300mm, 400 ISO. This is a 100% crop out of the original image.
Is this what I can expect when shooting at the long end, when the subject is far away? Should I have done something differently? Thanks in advance!
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11/08/2005 11:22:04 PM · #2 |
On a digital with a 1.6 crop factor, your 300 mm is acting like 480mm. Your shutter at 480mm should be a MINIMUM of 1/480. I would aim for more like 1/800 at least. F9 is extremely slow and hard to handhold at that distance.
M
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11/08/2005 11:24:15 PM · #3 |
Hmmm interesting. At the long barrel of the lens you really get that much shake? Maybe you need to use a monopod when you shoot with your 300mm. Not quite familiar with the Nikkor lenses but maybe they're a bit heavier than the Canon lenses.
I don't have IS but these images have been pretty stable.
@ 200 mm
@ 300mm
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11/08/2005 11:28:05 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
On a digital with a 1.6 crop factor, your 300 mm is acting like 480mm. Your shutter at 480mm should be a MINIMUM of 1/480. I would aim for more like 1/800 at least. F9 is extremely slow and hard to handhold at that distance. |
All along I've been shooting at 1/320th thinking that I need to be over 1/300 because it's 300mm- it never occurred to me that the rule wouldn't directly apply to digital!! I shall try it with a faster shutter speed and higher ISO. Thanks mavrik!
Should this eliminate the problem with the flight shots as well?
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11/08/2005 11:28:12 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
On a digital with a 1.6 crop factor, your 300 mm is acting like 480mm. Your shutter at 480mm should be a MINIMUM of 1/480. I would aim for more like 1/800 at least. F9 is extremely slow and hard to handhold at that distance.
M |
It's a 1.5 crop factor...
And he is correct...I really don't shoot in shutter priority at all. Set your aperture to where you want it, then adjust your ISO as needed to get your shutter speed...you want probably around 1/400 MINIMUM, and that's concentrating and holding it steady...note that's probably an average shutter speed to be ok with at that distance...some have steadier hands or shakier hands than others.
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11/08/2005 11:29:11 PM · #6 |
| I have a Sigma lens, that @ 300mm I can't get a clear shot unless I use the tripod. |
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11/08/2005 11:30:36 PM · #7 |
it looks a bit over cast the day you shot these. some lenses and shots need a LOT of light to get the shutter speed and apeture where you need it for the shot. I wont use my 80-400 with out a tripod and or monopod on an overcast day when its not a bright sunny day.
James |
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11/08/2005 11:38:08 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by deapee:
It's a 1.5 crop factor... |
Damned Nikon.
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11/08/2005 11:40:47 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
Originally posted by deapee:
It's a 1.5 crop factor... |
Damned Nikon. |
heh...damned Canon and their goofy 1.6 and 1.3 heh...1.5 is so much easier ;-)
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11/08/2005 11:44:24 PM · #10 |
I have the same problem with my 40-150 which I am told with the crop factor on my camera makes it a 80-300. Thanks for posting this question, I never realized I needed to make the shutter that much faster to get the "shake" out of it, I usually carry a tripod with me anyway? But thanks for asking the question for me!!
MattO |
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11/08/2005 11:46:45 PM · #11 |
I was having similar issues with my Rebel and Sigma 70-300 - the solution is more shutter speed. I get good results at 1/800 at 300mm. At slower speeds it gets iffy.
ISO 400, f8, 1/500 at 300mm handheld
ISO 100, F8, 1/500 at 300mm handheld, but more concentraion
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11/08/2005 11:48:00 PM · #12 |
| um are you guys positive about that shutter speed rule....i shoot at 1/200 at 200 mm all the time and i seem to be fine. It's still a 200 mm lens, its just cropped thats all, its not actually converted to a 480 mm lens...but maybe i dunno what im talkin about. |
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11/08/2005 11:50:03 PM · #13 |
Some people can hold the camera at better speeds than others. I would guess however that if you tried your hardest to handhold your 200mm at 1/150 and 1/300, the 300 would be much clearer on average.
M
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11/08/2005 11:50:36 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by petrakka:
um are you guys positive about that shutter speed rule....i shoot at 1/200 at 200 mm all the time and i seem to be fine. It's still a 200 mm lens, its just cropped thats all, its not actually converted to a 480 mm lens...but maybe i dunno what im talkin about. |
Yeah, it definately matters. I used to think along those lines also.
You may just be steadier than some. Personally, I have no problem whatsoever shooting 200mm (x1.5 = 300mm) at 1/100 of a second or shooting 50mm at around 1/10...I'm just good at holding my hands steady...some people just aren't I suppose.
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11/09/2005 12:57:26 AM · #15 |
Thanks all for the insight!
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11/09/2005 01:31:30 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Originally posted by petrakka:
um are you guys positive about that shutter speed rule....i shoot at 1/200 at 200 mm all the time and i seem to be fine. It's still a 200 mm lens, its just cropped thats all, its not actually converted to a 480 mm lens...but maybe i dunno what im talkin about. |
Yeah, it definately matters. I used to think along those lines also.
You may just be steadier than some. Personally, I have no problem whatsoever shooting 200mm (x1.5 = 300mm) at 1/100 of a second or shooting 50mm at around 1/10...I'm just good at holding my hands steady...some people just aren't I suppose. |
Aahhhh....that is something I never thought of! I just thought you'd still be looking at 1/300 as well! You learn something new everyday! :) |
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11/09/2005 01:36:05 AM · #17 |
i thought the 1/300 thing too on a 300 lens but alas, tis not so for me. If i am very steady 1/500 works well. 1/800 works better. all it takes is a hearbeat at the right moment to screw it all up.
I am not as steady as i once was, or thought i was. Perhaps more practive - when I was target shooting i learned to shoot betwen beats, but with my camera i can't seem to do that.
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11/09/2005 01:53:25 AM · #18 |
| Three words! tripod and mirror lock-up |
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11/09/2005 02:14:30 AM · #19 |
Andi - I shoot quite a bit of bird photography. What I have learned is that you need to shoot in apparture priority mode, wide open, to get the highest shutter you can. I normally also bump my ISO to 400 unless it is good to bright light. This is even more true for moving birds. I also use a heavy monopod unless I'm shooting my 70-200 VR.
The photo of birds in the trees also looks like a focus problem because the camera is seeing the branches. Try manual focus in those situations.
Hope this helps.
edit: as for mirror lock up although it is great for very slow shutter speeds you will seldom, if ever, use it for birds. And besides the D70's lock up can't be used for actual shooting as far as I know, but I could be wrong.
Message edited by author 2005-11-09 02:17:51. |
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11/09/2005 02:28:03 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
Andi - I shoot quite a bit of bird photography. What I have learned is that you need to shoot in apparture priority mode, wide open, to get the highest shutter you can. I normally also bump my ISO to 400 unless it is good to bright light. This is even more true for moving birds. I also use a heavy monopod unless I'm shooting my 70-200 VR. |
Cool, thanks for that!
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11/09/2005 03:37:33 AM · #21 |
Hurro...
Thought I might put this in semi geek-speek for folks wondering why 1/300th isn't enough on a cropped camera. From a technical perspective:
Talking about vertical blur/motion to keep it simple...
A 300mm lens on a full frame camera has a vertical 'field of view' of 4.5 degrees, or there abouts. So on a 1.5 crop camera (in the case of the D70) you've got a FOV of around 3 degrees...
A 6mp camera has 2000 or so pixels vertically, so to get pixel perfect sharpness you'd need to have less than 3/2000 degrees of movement while the shutter is open! That's 0.0015 degrees. Dosn't take much imagination to see that a small movement will result in a large blur in the image!
The 1/(focal length) concept is a rule of thumb, but it holds prety true...
Cheers, Me.
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11/09/2005 03:47:42 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by KiwiChris:
Dosn't take much imagination to see that a small movement will result in a large blur in the image! |
...so what you're saying is that she needs to give up coffee? |
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11/09/2005 05:02:33 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
Originally posted by KiwiChris:
Dosn't take much imagination to see that a small movement will result in a large blur in the image! |
...so what you're saying is that she needs to give up coffee? |
That, and possibly shoot all telephoto stuff in some sort of wind proof, vibration isolated, pressure sealed chamber.
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11/09/2005 05:39:06 AM · #24 |
taken with the 70-200L IS and 1.4X converter on the 20D wich gives 448mm
taken at f8 ISO 100 1/1000sec |
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11/09/2005 10:28:05 AM · #25 |
Hmm, i've always had reasonable success shooting handheld at 300mm (without IS)...
 <-- 1/1000th of a second
 <-- 1/500th of a second
 <-- 1/125th of a second
The most important thing t have is a steady hand and good posture when shooting, and firing a burst of 3 or so images will often help you get one sharper shot, when your hand isn't moving to press the shutter.
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