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DPChallenge Forums >> Web Site Suggestions >> The language barrier and DQ's...
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Showing posts 26 - 43 of 43, (reverse)
AuthorThread
 11/08/2005 08:25:37 PM · #26
Just because people from more than english-speaking countries enter contests does not mean it is not quintessentially an english-language oriented site, and a strongly european/american oriented site culturally speaking. The people you mention on the forum who are "struggling with their english" are doing just that - not speaking their own language comfortably, but trying to fit into a non-international site. And often, as you say, the DQ's come from failures in these struggles. This is not something that can easily be rectified by a few translations into other common languages.

Speakers of languages that english is easily translated into often speak english themselves, so the rules wouldn't be of much use. Speakers of more difficult languages would still find themselves out in the cold, but would now feel more left out because we translated into french and german but not japanese and serbian. It's a nice idea, but it won't work.

Message edited by ClubJuggle - Please report personal attacks instead of replying.
 11/08/2005 08:26:54 PM · #27
I didn't follow Ken's link, but if you click COMMUNITY and not any of the drop downs beneath it, it gives you a list of threads active in the last 24 hours with who originally posted it, when, how many views, how many replies.
 11/08/2005 08:31:48 PM · #28
I realize there would be some problems if not addressed at the start:
1. Disclaimers could be posted at the top of each rules page (there are only two) that the general rules set is translated but additional rules, extra rules, etc. would not.

2. That although the rules have been translated, the SC does not necessarily speak that language and any communication via PM's and such would have to ber in English if support was needed.

Anything can be made difficult, but also it can be made workable. All I was suggesting was that the two rules pages be translated so people would at least know what is allowed for a BASIC and an ADVANCED editing rules challenge in general.
 11/08/2005 08:38:28 PM · #29
Originally posted by Alienyst:
I realize there would be some problems if not addressed at the start:
1. Disclaimers could be posted at the top of each rules page (there are only two) that the general rules set is translated but additional rules, extra rules, etc. would not.

2. That although the rules have been translated, the SC does not necessarily speak that language and any communication via PM's and such would have to ber in English if support was needed.

Anything can be made difficult, but also it can be made workable. All I was suggesting was that the two rules pages be translated so people would at least know what is allowed for a BASIC and an ADVANCED editing rules challenge in general.


This still leaves open the question of how to address future rules revisions in a timely manner. I invite your suggestions.

~Terry
 11/08/2005 08:43:39 PM · #30
Oh, classy, the disappearing-original-post trick.
 11/08/2005 08:50:18 PM · #31
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by saracat:
Actually I think it's a good idea to translate all of the challenge rules and site rules.
Unfortunately, the only foreign languages I speak are 'baby' and 'toddler'...


goo goo da ba ba baaaaaa. maaaaa mi ouueee ohoho ehehe. tadatada boo bee mamemimo baba da ho fola la lo pa seeeeee mama dee ti fo kakala kaka binky!


No, you cannot have more milk - you just nursed for an hour. I will get your father to change your diaper, and I am getting your pacifier out, so just calm down.
 11/08/2005 08:51:42 PM · #32
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
This still leaves open the question of how to address future rules revisions in a timely manner. I invite your suggestions.

~Terry


Again, anything can be made difficult. It was a suggestion made from an observation made while doing critiques. I noticed editing steps taken that were clearly not allowed, the DQ's requested were for images by people who, by their location, it appeared (and I could be wrong) that English was not their first language and perhaps maybe they did not understand the rules as well as they could have due to that language.

---

This was not made so it could turn into a rant and I could be further insulted by people. I get enough of that from the people who work for me who don't like to work the hours I pay them for and get upset when I tell them so. It was simply a thought. Bad idea? Maybe, and I can accept that. No problem. If you don't like my idea, fine. But if you cannot come up with a better one, better to keep quiet than insult me or turn it into an argument. I was simply thinking of others on this site that may benefit from it.

Message edited by author 2005-11-08 20:52:43.
 11/08/2005 08:54:40 PM · #33
Originally posted by riot:
Oh, classy, the disappearing-original-post trick.


Have no idea what you are talking about. No post has been removed by me.

Message edited by author 2005-11-08 20:56:42.
 11/08/2005 08:54:55 PM · #34
You could always just ask them to use this link to copy and paste the Rules and regulations into their own language. Just a suggestion. Its one that I use to help translate when I meet a person who speaks another language in a chat room. Not 100% accurate, but you get the jest of it.

//www.babelfish.altavista.com/

MattO
 11/08/2005 09:01:25 PM · #35
i think it is a great idea.

A possible alternative to sideswipe Terry's suggtions for possible cons:

What if we could simply (if they were avialable) compile a list of site members who are bilingual (noting said language) AND are prepared to volunteer a moment of thier time once in a while to clarify a question an English as a Second Language DPC-er had in thier native tongue if it was not making sense to them in english.

Or simple having a place in our preferances to state what languages we speak. And if you didnt want to talk to another in a language other than english, you simpley would not state that you spoke french or icelandic or whatever.

I don't know, my English isn't even up to par so my opinion on this probably means little. But i have also encountered problems steming from ESL translations, and would also like to see them dealt with in a more approriate way than "buy a dictionary".
 11/08/2005 09:04:55 PM · #36
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by riot:
Oh, classy, the disappearing-original-post trick.


Have no idea what you are talking about. No post has been removed by me.

A post of yours was edited by ClubJuggle, I think that's what's being referred to.
 11/08/2005 09:07:54 PM · #37
Originally posted by justin_hewlett:

A post of yours was edited by ClubJuggle, I think that's what's being referred to.


I didn't even notice.
 11/08/2005 09:14:25 PM · #38
Originally posted by mesmeraj:
i think it is a great idea.

A possible alternative to sideswipe Terry's suggtions for possible cons:

What if we could simply (if they were avialable) compile a list of site members who are bilingual (noting said language) AND are prepared to volunteer a moment of thier time once in a while to clarify a question an English as a Second Language DPC-er had in thier native tongue if it was not making sense to them in english.

Or simple having a place in our preferances to state what languages we speak. And if you didnt want to talk to another in a language other than english, you simpley would not state that you spoke french or icelandic or whatever.

I don't know, my English isn't even up to par so my opinion on this probably means little. But i have also encountered problems steming from ESL translations, and would also like to see them dealt with in a more approriate way than "buy a dictionary".


I think this idea would work better than attempting to do global translation. Any rule clarifications would still need to go through the SC but an explanation could be made by the language volunteer to the person who requested clarification in their own language. We could still miss a few languages but it would not introduce the nightmare of rule updates and consistent interpretation.
 11/08/2005 09:36:36 PM · #39
OK. Some people seem to misinterpret the rules, but English also seems to be the common language on this website. Unless you have a native speaker translating the rules, you are going to have even more problems than we have already. On-line translators are worthless. Period. We've got a reasonably good system running, if you try and satisfy every idion out there, we'll sink.

I'm from California, and I just went to get the booklet to take my driver's test. I could get it in Tagalog, Spanish, Korean, Chinese (not sure which dialect), and Vietnamese, but they were out of English. I opted for Spanish.

Hablo espanol.

Falo portugues.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Maybe I should be over in the rant column.

Germaine
 11/08/2005 09:42:42 PM · #40
Originally posted by riot:
Oh, classy, the disappearing-original-post trick.


He didn't remove the post; I did. Only Site Council and Administrators have the ability to remove posts. You've each now had a couple posts removed and edited.

For the final time, personal attacks are not welcome on the forums, and the proper method of responding to a personal attack is to use the "report post" button and let Site Council deal with it.

Please keep this thread on topic. Thank you.

Message edited by author 2005-11-08 21:45:26.
 11/08/2005 10:13:00 PM · #41
English is not my mother tongue - I spent the first 20 years of my life in Germany, then moved to Australia - so I know what it is like to struggle with English.

If I went to an international site, regardless of what country/language, I would NOT expect them to suddenly speak German or English for me. I would either move on to where I understand, or I would stick around and learn, even if that means making mistakes.

I dearly wish we had a perfect, working international language. Sadly, Esperanto never quite made it, and English seems to have become "it".
I am not suggesting that English is the best candidate for it - far from it, actually - but we're stuck with it, so we may as well make the most of it.

We could not possibly cater for every language, so why make many people feel left out, confuse some others, make DPC life difficult, etc etc etc?

I agree this is not ideal, but due to the lack of a good international language, I think we just need to stick with the old adage: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"
 11/08/2005 10:22:18 PM · #42
I don't see the demand here.... We don't see threads in different languages which I imagine would be prevalant if there was such a need. Is this something that has been requested by DPCers? It seems to me that english speaking members are the only ones who are asking for translations. I don't get it.

Message edited by author 2005-11-08 22:23:03.
 11/08/2005 10:40:12 PM · #43
Originally posted by neophyte:
I don't see the demand here.... We don't see threads in different languages ...

Actually, we occasionally do, but no one seems to have a problem with it. I know for sure I've seen Icelandic and Spanish, and pretty sure I've seen Portuguese and maybe a few others here and there.
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