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11/06/2005 08:17:16 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Pedro:
whatever lets you sleep at night, dude. |
Well, arguing with you over a hypothetical situation that will more than likely never occur in the first place certainly isn't going to make me lose sleep or make me sleep any better for that matter.
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11/06/2005 08:19:45 PM · #27 |
| deapea - don't let them get to you. Everyone has their own sense of place and some just cannot live with another's. I commend you for being honest and expressing your opinion. Perhaps others should take things into account they may not have experienced and that perhaps would help them to understand another's point of view. |
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11/06/2005 08:22:16 PM · #28 |
side note: sorry for not getting the name right in the above post (not immediately, the one where I counted out the responses) - corrected now though...
Message edited by author 2005-11-06 20:23:05. |
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11/06/2005 10:12:50 PM · #29 |
| Alienyst - here's the most important question, since you were out there picking up trash along the highway - "did you get a good Garbage II shot?!" :-) |
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11/06/2005 10:19:06 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Originally posted by Pedro:
whatever lets you sleep at night, dude. |
Well, arguing with you over a hypothetical situation that will more than likely never occur in the first place certainly isn't going to make me lose sleep or make me sleep any better for that matter. |
I suppose even some among the lowest of the low sleep peacefully...
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11/06/2005 10:26:38 PM · #31 |
I felt sorta guilty last week when I was pumping gas and a twenty dollar bill just sorta blew past me. I stomped it with my foot, and put it in my pocket. The station was packed, and I did not see anyone looking for it. I felt pretty dirty. But, nothing I could really do.
Totally different situation, but it is strange how the guilt works on the brain. I could never have kept it either.
Nice job. |
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11/06/2005 10:39:00 PM · #32 |
Pedro........Try not to figure our friend Deapee out... he is the same fella that stated he would take pictures of a woman while she was being run over by a train.
So.... don't lose your wallet and expect Deapee to give it back to you... and don't stand to close to the tracks,,,,,just in case. |
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11/06/2005 10:44:37 PM · #33 |
Karma sends her sloppy smooches your way, alienyst...
R.
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11/06/2005 10:50:06 PM · #34 |
Hey ken, you got the wrong picture. That's not karma, that's dogma... :)
When I was a kid, I found a wallet with I forgot how much money in it. I think it was a little over a hundred bucks.
We found the person's information in the wallet and I returned the wallet to the owner.
They said thanks and closed the door in my face rather abruptly as if I had done nothing of note.
I think I was around 8 at the time, so I felt a little strange about it, but now I understand much more clearly. If I was a parent, I know that I would use the event to teach my child about altruism.
Doing good things doesn't need to have a positive return.
Sometimes we just do good things because they are what we ought to do.
It's what sets us above the animals.
Children taught that there is some sort of reward will always be tempted to compare which reward is better. Those with short sight (no reflection on personality, our short-sightedness is often dictated by the anxieties of the day or minute) will be tempted to weigh future rewards and intangible rewards (like karma) with the immediate rewards to see if doing the right thing is really worth it.
Children taught that there is an absolute right way that has no further benefit than doing the right thing will be more likely to act without hesitation.
Of course anyone with any style of parental upbringing is free to make their own choices.
They say 'possesssion is nine tenths of the law'.
That's the kind of mentality that has generated so many problems involving invasions (being a European descended Canadian, I am a beneficiary of this).
The day when people start treating people as people and looking beyond possessions is the day when people will really start getting along on a minor scale and a major scale.
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11/06/2005 11:22:38 PM · #35 |
OK...so lets take this hypothetical situation...
You find a wallet that has a nice-looking photo ID of some individual and some credit cards and about a grand in cash...he looks like a respectful individual. But the cash, he made selling drugs and he has much more at home...thousands just sitting there in cash in one of his 9 cars...would you really feel guilty taking his money that he lost?
How about the guy that was a hit-man and just earned that money from killing a person?
Maybe he's a con-man and just conned someone out of the money...truth of the matter is there's just no way to tell. Sure, it could be some guy's hard-earned money he saved up for brain surgery that he needs or he's going to die, but chances are it's not. Anyone walking around with a thousand dollars in cash in their wallet should either A) get a banking account or B) be a little more careful with their money.
--
EDIT: I actually recently went to the bank with 4000 in cash from when I sold my motorcycle...if I lost that, I wouldn't expect to get it back...but I'll tell you what, it would almost have taken a hurricane to get that money to fall out of my grasp.
Message edited by author 2005-11-06 23:24:15.
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11/06/2005 11:26:46 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
Doing good things doesn't need to have a positive return.
Sometimes we just do good things because they are what we ought to do.
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i agree.
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11/06/2005 11:38:08 PM · #37 |
FURTHERMORE, I keep hearing about karma, and what goes around comes around...well what if it doesn't? Doing 'good things' because you think they'll come back around to you is not a good reason...that is what is pathetic if you ask me.
If you're doing things you think are good just because you're a good person, then that's awesome...more power to you. But in the end, none of us are judged by our good deads. It's not like the more good deads you do than me you'll get that much more of a reward in the end, it just doesn't work like that.
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11/06/2005 11:44:36 PM · #38 |
If i found money, jewelry, a winning lottery ticket laying about, ANYWHERE, I would keep it - if it was just that item. I have done so, most recently was at work - i work as a waiter, and at the end of the night I found a $20 bill under a booth. Yep, I kept it. Another night I found a gift card to another restaurant, worth $10. Kept it, used it. No probs.
I find things left on tables all the time - lots of cell phones. Those things i turn into the office for hte lost and found, which is usually overflowing with unclaimed items.
If i found a wallet with ID...then i might have to think about it some. We all know the right thing to do. If i lost my wallet I'd be happy to get the contents back, but then that depends I suppose on how long ago i lost it and if i knew. If i knew, i'd be canceling the cards and getting a new drivers license, etc, so after a few days the return might give me peace of mind and increased faith in humanity, but would mean very little.
In this instance would I keep the cash? Hmmm, very tempting. I might, I sure might. I'd return the wallet via a mailbox. I'd sleep at night. But then deepea and I are both Pittsburgers, and this is a tough town. Would my kid learn a lesson? I'd never freakin' tell him, so no lesson good or bad.
Did anyone think of it this way? Sure it was 'bad luck' for the loser. But perhaps it was meant as a windfall for the finder? Karma was trying to repay an earlier good deed? Hey - don't question karma or look a gift horse in the mouth.
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11/06/2005 11:48:01 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by deapee:
FURTHERMORE, I keep hearing about karma, and what goes around comes around...well what if it doesn't? Doing 'good things' because you think they'll come back around to you is not a good reason...that is what is pathetic if you ask me.
If you're doing things you think are good just because you're a good person, then that's awesome...more power to you. But in the end, none of us are judged by our good deads. It's not like the more good deads you do than me you'll get that much more of a reward in the end, it just doesn't work like that. |
There is such a thing as karma - the 'world' or what have you is balanced. Do too much good or bad and the scales will balance out - so cut enough people off in traffic on the way to work everyday and you get heart disease or your roof leaks or your hard drive fries. You may not get teh connection, but it is there. I've had too many experiences and seen too many come-uppances to others not to be a believer.
I believe in Ghosts too - you may not. Does not mean either of us wil or will not see one or be haunted, right?
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11/06/2005 11:48:46 PM · #40 |
Deapee. #1. There are more people running around who are in real need than are drug dealers. Many people in real need are that way because they have organizational problems and are likely to do dumb things like lose their wallet. To assume that a mean or nasty person is the owner of a found wallet is pretty narrow.
#2 Who am I to judge. I have a really vengeful hate towards the drug industry that stems from personal experiences in my family, but the bottom line is that I am not a cop. Nor is the appropriate punishment for being a drug dealer to have their wallet ripped off.
People do illicit and illegal things all the time. Am I supposed to dish out my own type of justice? That's ridiculous.
That's also how a good portion of road rage gets started. That's a great sign of a really healthy sense of justice isn't it?
(as a side note, it would be pretty embarrassing if you happened to get cocaine dust from some guys money all over the inside of your wallet and got busted at an airport or something)
No, if the person is a drug dealer, or a hit man, it shouldn't make a difference. The wallet's contents belong to that person. That's the important peice of information in the equation.
Even if you found proof, like a little baggie of crack or weed or something, it's still not your right to take money from what is not yours.
At the police station, they will (or should) get you to write a listed receipt of what was found and they will deal with the legal infractions appropriately.
It's pretty simple really. Don't forget that most people do illegal and illicit things now and again. Ever stop your car with the front of the car past the white line at a stop sign?
The hypothetical situation is really irrelevant. The principle is sound.
Ultimately however, your actions are your choice. Right and wrong aren't always the only factors in a decision. |
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11/06/2005 11:51:10 PM · #41 |
Our character is defined by what we do when no one is looking.
-H. Jackson Brown, Jr |
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11/06/2005 11:51:53 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by Pedro:
Our character is defined by what we do when no one is looking.
-H. Jackson Brown, Jr |
"Pedro is damn sexy"
-J. Lawrence
Message edited by author 2005-11-06 23:52:30. |
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11/07/2005 01:08:56 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by deapee:
FURTHERMORE, I keep hearing about karma, and what goes around comes around...well what if it doesn't? Doing 'good things' because you think they'll come back around to you is not a good reason...that is what is pathetic if you ask me.
If you're doing things you think are good just because you're a good person, then that's awesome...more power to you. But in the end, none of us are judged by our good deads. It's not like the more good deads you do than me you'll get that much more of a reward in the end, it just doesn't work like that. |
You don't by any chance work in the White House? You sound like you could benefit from the refresher course in ethics that the president has ordered for White House staffers.
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11/07/2005 09:08:41 AM · #44 |
Deapee. I didn't see your post when I wrote my previous one, but I agree with you. Karma, whether it exists or not (I don't really believe in karma by that name or by the broad definition either), is a poor motivating force to do good.
It will always provide you with the motive to do something good for what you get out of it. At its core, it is a give and take system.
Many bad people never get bad results. Many good people live terrible lives.
If you define your life by what good things happen to you... or worse yet, what good things should happen to you... Well, that's a short road to depression. Or a short road to something else...
That's not to say it's terrible when someone finds some money. I know, I was pretty down one day a couple of years ago after a little blunder with a phone bill blew a third of my money and I was living in a foreign country with no work and a failed first relationship. I had around 30 dollars left before my account balance would be too low to reapply for a visa. I was living on tea eggs bought for =30 cents and water in bottles.
I found the equivalent of twenty bucks on the ground one evening and it turned the tide for me. A week later, I was working and I haven't looked back since.
I did check to see if the money belonged to anyone else at the time of course. If it belongs to someone else, it belongs to someone else.
It's not a good deed to return someone else's belongings to them. It's merely the right thing to do.
If there really is no way to tell, enjoy. |
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11/07/2005 09:27:48 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Anyone walking around with a thousand dollars in cash in their wallet should either A) get a banking account or B) be a little more careful with their money. |
I walk around most of the time with 1K for pocket money. You naver know where life is gonna take you. If I lost it I'd just pull one of the bank cards from my pocket (cuz wallets make your ass lop sided) and withdrawl more. If I found the wallet I honestly don't know what I'd do. I would probably take the money tape the drivers license to the fronto with clear packing tape and drop it in a mail box.
The guy probably had his wallet on the dash of his car/truck took the corner for the off ramp to hard and out the window it went. (had this happen to a beer once) Returning the money was a nice thing to do nd Roxanne you should have no regrets about what you have done as a kid especially when your poor. Hell I've had to steal money from a church one just to eat when I was living on the streets. It was only $5 but I don't regret trying to survive.
In short, I'm very free with money now ad as I see it if your walking downtown or somewhere and see someone homeless (AND your with someone) buy that person something to eat even if its just a hot dog. It may jut be there only meal for that day.
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11/07/2005 09:35:26 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by macpapas:
Alienyst - here's the most important question, since you were out there picking up trash along the highway - "did you get a good Garbage II shot?!" :-) |
Nope...tossed cans, bottles, and such don't make for interesting pics. Now if it had been when I first cleaned up the rest areas, yes I would have gotten a good pic. |
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11/07/2005 11:54:28 AM · #47 |
Congrats on an honest move.
Honesty is it's own reward, which is not like good karma (whatever that means). There really is a law of sowing & reaping, that is what goes around comes around.
If honesty were practiced at all levels, our society & families would be better off.
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11/07/2005 12:07:06 PM · #48 |
This thread was started in reference to a previous thread where Chris announced his good deed of adopting a section of highway to keep clean.
I told him to keep an eye out because I had heard of a woman in my town who did the same and found a cigarette pack stuffed with lots of cash. She kept it because there was no way to identify the owner, and the suspicion would be that it was ill-gotten.
Chris found a wallet belonging to an elderly gentleman, with ID in it.
There's a distinction to be made between the two cases, and although I'm not a Christian, I believe in the "Golden Rule" as a way to live life with integrity. Chris did the right thing, because it served his integrity to return the wallet.
If Deapee was being true to himself and would not feel slighted to have a lost wallet returned, minus the cash, then that would be the right thing for him. This is what makes the world go round.
Thanks Chris and Kevin for telling me not to feel bad. I wish I would have stolen from the offering plate instead of the old lady. We bought candy, and saw her return from the store with a loaf of bread. We probably deprived her of the food she intended to buy. I feel bad, but it was a defining moment in my life. I learned about empathy, and that lesson has always remained with me.
For me, Karma is not about material rewards; it's about the self-validation of knowing you are living with integrity, even without the chance of reward. |
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11/07/2005 12:46:22 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
For me, Karma is not about material rewards; it's about the self-validation of knowing you are living with integrity, even without the chance of reward. |
You are welcome Roxanne! And I really like the quoted statement! Very well written and true as far as I believe. Honesty/integrity are the only things that another really can't take away from you. You mess those up yourself with no one else to blame...ever. |
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11/07/2005 02:27:31 PM · #50 |
Alienyst you should be very happy with yourself for what you did and I'm certain your mother is proud of the son she raised (despite the posting of his nude butt on the intranet ;) ).
Roxanne you got it right, it shouldn't be about material rewards. You may not get a material reward for doing what is right but the clear mind and knowing you did the right thing is an awesome feeling.
I myself used to work in a place where people used their credit cards all the time and removed their wallets frequetly. I can't remember how many times I looked up people's info; calling information, checking internet sites for numbers, called business cards I found in wallets to track down the owner. Never checking the amount of cash or number of cards, it made no difference to me, just knew how I'd feel loosing my wallet (and for some people, their entire life).
I even carried a $500 check to the IRS for 2 days searching for the owners address. As I stopped some place to ask directions, I realized that it was a business address on the check and I had stopped at his very business. He was so thankful he opened the register to give me money and couldn't believe I said "no thank you". Who knows what trouble that may have kept him out of. I've found at least 2 wallets in shopping carts in grocery store parking lots too, both were called and left at the customer service counter.
Deapee, I don't agree with your hypothetical practice or the reasoning you gave. You can't know when you find a wallet if they person got their money selling drugs so how can you justify keeping it? Maybe it is the amount in it? Well what if you had lost your $4000 and someone just decided that it was a drug dealers and just took it. I know you say you'd expect it to be gone for good and was wondering...do you base your hypothetical practice of not returning the money on the thinking that it would happen to you so why not someone else? If so, I'm praying there aren't a whole lot of other situations that you come upon and use that thinking to get out of, I mean what happens if you find a gun, do you think, "hey I could be shot with this then someone else deserves to be shot with it"? What a world we would be in if instead of looking for our material rewards we would actually do as we would want done to us. I do agree with you that good deeds do not get you better rewards in the end, it doesn't work that way BUT that doesn't mean you don't do any good deeds anyway.
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