2nd model shoot: opinions NEEDED!

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

10/29/2005 02:06:41 AM · #26

I think 'something' could be done with these photos even though her camera/lighting weren't ideal.

I myself am a big proponent of using good camera and lenses however.

This is what I did to this photo, and I think, an improvement. Sometimes a photo can be salvaged through post editing. Oh, one more thing. I don't think the question was so much as to the quality of her prints, but more along the lines of 'what did you think of her photoshoot' Pose, light. etc.

Message edited by author 2005-10-29 02:32:47.

petrakka

10/29/2005 02:26:06 AM · #27

the lighting is a big problem obviously, never use on camera flash unless its like a daylight fill.

deapee is mostly right with the camera equipment thing. It doesn't have to do all with megapixels, but SLR's are less noisy, even at less megapixels. An image from a 4 megapixel nikon d2h or canon 1d will look better than an image from an 8 megapixel point and shoot at a print size like 8x10 for the most part because it will be less noisy. Also with these point and shoot cameras it is hard to get depth of field in the photos, another area where an SLR would help.

It's not ultimately up to your equipment, but there are just some things that are kind of standard. I have an 8x12 print from my 4 mp oly point and shoot, and while its a good print, its pretty noisy and not of the quality i would ever send to a modeling/photography agency. I have an 8x12 of a cropped image from my d70 that, while the actual resolution is similar, looks a hell of a lot better.

hokie

Nikon D2X

10/29/2005 02:32:03 AM · #28

Well, where to start.

I work for a commercial photography/design/advertising house as an advertising and graphics consultant.

Equipment CAN make a difference but the question always has to be "What is the goal?"

If the goal is some simple portfolio shots to get an idea if a model has some potential, we still shoot Polaroids.

I have supervised advertisments that had models shot with a 2.1 megapixel camera and run in magazines and in catalogues. We have also had models shot with full frame view cameras scanned to 200 megapixels and blown up to 4 stories tall!

I still shoot stuff with my Canon G2 along with my Nikon D2x.

I think the only thing you really need to get going is skill and a great subject.

But...bad lighting can kill you.

Lets address the photos here in question.

First, Use a quality Muslin backdrop, dark grey is preferable, at least 10 foot wide by 20 foot long. Run the muslin on the groundat least 10 feet curve it up a wall and pin it/support it at least 8 feet high.

Next, try to stay away from harsh worklights. The color cast is really tough on skin tones and hard to correct. Use a natural light source like a large window with southern exposure. It was good for the earliest fashion photographers and its good enough now.

Try to stay at least 5 feet (or more ) from the backdrop but this is subjective. This depends on lighting, mood, direction etc. What we are going for is a balance to the model and the backdrop...backdrop technique is a book in itself.

Try not to have the model look directly at the camera. Have him focus on a point at about a 45 degree angle from the camera. This gives you leverage to work from side to side for different angles. Have him imagine a favorite movie and how he would try ot play a certian character, facial and body mannerisms. Introduce movement. Muscle tone tension creates interesting contrasting elements and will loosen a model up after about 15 minutes of a workout :-)

HAVE FUN!!!! and don't be afraid to take a timeout to check your results before continuing. Share your results with the model and come to a consensus about what you both like and don't like and make changes.

Ultimately, there is no secret formula. It is up to you to make it happen..regardless of equipment.

I shot lots of commercial pre-production work with my Canon G2. I didn't buy my Nikon D2x until I had a client lined up that needed the extra resolution and I had people telling me that they wanted me to shoot their stuff rather than the photographer I had hired. Why? Not that I was a much superior photographer. They liked my creativity and trusted that the end result would be correct.

Here is some samples of some of my work with a Canon G2

//www.photoworksgroup.com/onlineportfolio/microaire_duratran1.html

and
//www.photoworksgroup.com/onlineportfolio/images/route66d.jpg

Hope this helps some :-D

Message edited by author 2005-10-29 02:34:15.

KiwiChris

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

10/29/2005 05:51:26 AM · #29

Wow, busy thread. :-).

Anyhooo.. My suggestion would be go for natural light as someone else already suggsted. Without a better camera using small hot lights is going to be an uphill battle to get the image colour right, and noise will be a constant issue.

Go for at least one 'windowlight' shot. You know the ones, moody looking bloke staring out he window.

And take some headshots in open shade under a tree or similar, looking downwards slightly so everything behind the model is darker than his face.

For the rest of them get your model to change clothes a few times and pick different places around the park.

As for the 3.2Mpx debate. I believe you can do port. shots for a model with a lower res P&S camera, but only if everything is on your side. Lots of good light is an important start.

BTW, All of the portfolio work I've done for starting out models (None recently though, all 8-9 yrs ago) were 8x10 or 8x12 cropped a little, not 11x14. They had to fit in one of those plastic 'pocket' folder thingies to be accepted by the agencies.

Just my 2c worth.

Cheers, Me.

Beach_mel

Nikon D70s

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

10/29/2005 07:03:25 AM · #30

Jeez had the whole thing finished and then I got attacked by the crazy toddler and lost it.

*disclaimer bla bla not an expert bla bla ;-)*

If you and your model need inspiration, head to the local book store or library and study the mens mags like GQ, Esquire, etc. They will give you some good ideas for pictures, posing, styling and location. You may be overlooking places that would be great like the park year you or a coffee shop with great windows by getting fixated on shooting "model" pics on a backdrop. Styling is another good point, try to pick a set of outfits that will get you through a few different looks, just by taking a jacket/scarf off etc. Your model looks very urban so use that, shoot him on the street with a brick building behind him.

OO think outside the BOX remember it's not a challenge (evil laugh)

HTH, Mel

10/29/2005 09:25:18 AM · #31

WOW! ya'll been busy while i was asleep.

The MP issue here has its good points. I have printed both my "ray of light" and "royal splash"(twice now) as 8x10's and they came out great. I didnt see any artifacts. but i will try to borrow my sister in laws rebel XT for the monday shoot. maybe i can talk her into being my "helper" that day too hee~hee

I have already done one set of photos for this model(in aug) and at the time I thought them to be real good. I now see all the screw ups they have and cant believe that the modeling agencys have contacted him. He is due to return to Ohio nov 12 for several interviews. All the modeling agencys he contacted requested 5x7 hard copy prints. some wanted them email and have now requested 5x7 prints when he comes to his interview. The first set were more "boyish/hometown boy" photos and he wants more of a "sexy" look for these sets. He wants his portfolio to be filled with different looks which from what i have read is not usually the case with models. I have read they are hard to work with and that is not the case with joe. he knew from the get go that I am real new at this as he is. we do laugh and goof off(per the better ones). I think his problem is he doesnt think his model photos should have smiles and Thats exactly what I try to catch from him. Im a HUGE fan of smiles in photos. The bigger and more genuine they are the more i love them. I just Need to get better lights for our indoor shots. I have a hard time with my camera because when i set the lights up he has some serious bright spots on him visualy but when i re~adjust them(lights) by eye for that they come out dark :( like these did. maybe my camera doesnt see the hot spots like i do visualy. I will have to experiment with that.

This portrait shoot is all a trial and error thing for me. I work better in macro mode and that just isnt going to cut it for this assignment. I will be trying these suggestions monday and will post my best ones again. I have given joe his assignment of praticing in the mirror different looks,and poses while looking at everything. I told him to look for creases,wrinkles, awkward looking from every aspect. i also told him to got to the library and look for some modeling books and to bring them to me and we would go thru them together. he has been searching the internet and mags for poses. this last shoot he brought a page from a mag and the newest abercrombie catalog which had 3 male poses that he liked. I couldnt get enough light in them to do it.the models in the catalog were all very well built and had chiseld faces which joes doesnt have. so that look didnt work for him too well.

this will be our first shoot that I have the vehicle for. the first ones were taken outside around my apartment complex which i think gave them a uban type feel.I also think one of his problems is he is constantly worried about me being uncomfortable with certain poses hes trying to do. mostly with the very low cut jeans in the front he always asks me "is this ok with you?" I dont care if he models nude! when Im working i see whats in the box and nothing else. I look for wrinkles,creases,hot spots ect....not what part of the body that stuff is happening on. maybe if i told him he had to do a nude session that might help him relax about what makes me uncomfortable huh. hee~hee

Thanks a bunch for all the links~ I will be looking at those right now. and i will be checking in to see if anthings new(posts) every few minutes.

Strikeslip

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

10/29/2005 09:34:49 AM · #32

How about trying some poses with motion in them for some added excitement. I don't know anything about modelling, but I find action poses interesting as well as static.

deapee

Kodak V803

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

10/29/2005 10:55:47 AM · #33

Originally posted by wavelength:

Get at canon 5d, nikon D2x, or canon 1dsmk2 and then maybe get some frickin tact. Oh, wait, you're not a real photographer because you don't have a Hassleblad with a PhaseOne p25 digital back. You must just be a hack pretending to be a photographer. Get over yourself and your camera.

Seriously, this has turned into a bashing match -- but you're the only one doing the bashing...which is strange for me, because usually I'm the angry one. It's great that you think I feel all high and mighty with my camera...the truth is, there are much better photographers out there than me with 2MP cameras, I'm not going to lie...seriously, I'm sorry you disagree with me, but calling me a 'hack pretending to be a photographer' is silly...Obviously, by participating in the thread, originally, I was trying to help.

But I guess I can see with my reputation that most people just love to go against me -- which is fine, because to be honest, I'd rather argue with 100 people and speak my true feelings than to have everyone agree with me and be trying to argue a point that I don't necessarily believe in...whatever though man...take it easy.

Drummie

Nikon D40

10/29/2005 11:04:44 AM · #34

I am by far an expert in this area. But, I definately recommend not using the black background. Maybe a dark brown, or some other color that he won't completely blend into?
I also agree, he looks uncomfortable with the camera. Try to get him to relax abit. Maybe the second shoot will be more comfortable for him.....if not, a shot of whiskey? :)
Can't wait to see the photos from the next shoot.........

hokie

Nikon D2X

10/29/2005 12:21:12 PM · #35

That is good news that some agencies have shown an interest.

Lets be honest, if a model has a look an agency could use to market, they will contact you regardless of the photos.

I have some agency contacts that actually LIKE the fact a model sends in some not-so-perfect photos, it shows that the model hasnt been shopping himself for so long he is better at test shots than real work:-) Plus agencies like new blood.

With not so perfect photos, it's usually the photographer who will get dismissed, not the potential model. The agency is thinking.."Just think if we sent this guy in to our in-house photographer what kind of look we could get"

So don't worry about your model..if the agencies like his look..they won't care how perfect the photo is.

Message edited by author 2005-10-29 12:21:53.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

10/29/2005 12:30:36 PM · #36

Good advice hokie.

My only thought is, the photos cant look 'hoakie' Pardon the pun, lol. They atleast need to not have that mauve sheet behind him. I would re-shoot and correct the obvious issues that have been mentioned in this thread. I think one more shoot would be best and if she is willing to do it....they should greatly improve.

You can see that this model has a fresh appealing look to probably many audiences. I can see that through the obvious photography mistakes. Just like you said.

hokie

Nikon D2X

10/29/2005 12:47:14 PM · #37

I agree...if I were in a major city agency I could get this guy work tomorrow. He has that modern, urban look that is popular with the 16-25 market.

funnylooks

Nikon D100

Lensbaby 2.0

10/29/2005 12:54:35 PM · #38

Oddly enough, this came up in a philosophy class of mine, but looking through photos in magazines, especially in magazines catering towards guys, the models are almost never looking straight at the camera.

Whereas the girls do.

The idea being that looking at a photo that looks at you produces an immediate feeling of connection (which is where we started in on Hegel), and (as i said) especially in guy's mags, that connection with a girl is good, but with a guy is not (to the wide public).

So ANYWAY, not being an expert of any sort, I'd try a few poses with the guy looking off camera.

(-:

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/29/2005 12:55:52 PM · #39

You've already got a lot of good advice.

One thing I did not see but someone may have already said is this:
It is generally not a good idea to use a black background for a model with black hair.

However, if your goal is a "dark" image even that rule can be violated with great effect as evidenced by CalliopeKel's fine transformation:

Originally posted by CalliopeKel:

10/29/2005 12:58:38 PM · #40

If you look at my portfolio I have my son (who has modeled for me a few times) looking right at the camera. I like both sexes looking at the camera.

Since portraiture is my favorite form of photography, I want to connect with the model. I want to feel pulled in. That is what makes a photo live. I enjoy the intimacy of direct stare. I even like a photo that makes me feel uncomfortable. As long as I feel something. Too many photos out there leave you with no feelings, no emotion, no mood.

I think Chers pics are moody. Is it her work, or his look? Prolly both. Use both well to achieve the maximum effect.

Message edited by author 2005-10-29 13:06:51.

10/29/2005 04:06:42 PM · #41

I couldn't resist editing another.

I think these pictures are great...LOL

Message edited by author 2005-10-29 16:07:27.

wavelength

Nikon D300

10/29/2005 04:11:44 PM · #42

Originally posted by deapee:

My comments were intended as an obvious farce, guess it wasn't as obvious as I thought. You and I both know you're a perfectly capable photographer. My point is that your camera has only a little to do with it. The shots she takes with here small MP p&s camera will not be used by the modeling agency, or in a magazine. As others have said, it is more important that she help her model achieve his most flattering look, rather than worrying about MP's and noise factors.

Your comments to her were the same as mine to you, the only difference was that I was being direct, and it seemed you were veiling your comments with a smug veneer. If that was not your intent, I think maybe you should choose your words more carefully. But your "car" relation kind of gave away your attitude to me. You came across as the high school jerk with his mustang laughing at the geek in the saturn. Also, I have no prior knowledge of your posting habits, I came to this conclusion based solely on comments in this thread.

No hard feelings really, I just felt like you wer picking on her, and I have Knight in Shining Armor syndrome half the time. Sorry to make such a big fuss about this, everyone. Back to your scheduled programming.

Message edited by author 2005-10-29 16:12:22.

deapee

Kodak V803

10/29/2005 04:14:41 PM · #43

heh

10/29/2005 04:21:34 PM · #44

thanks again. Im finally back to my putter. with the link posted here i have found(and saved) a few good poses for joe to look at monday. It might be hard to get some of these right since they all have been done in a studio and I will be in nature with natural light. but i will do the best i can. gotta go get a bottle of turkey 101 just in case he cant get comfortable( might need to take a shot or two myself) :o)

hey kelly..can i send ya my orginals from monday and have u edit them for me? j/k. I dont know what kind of editing is "allowed" for these in the modeling world so I have only been doing the basics(levels,color adj.,contrast...ect) I would love to do some filters on his photos. but I dont really want to screw them up anymore than I naturaly do(with inexperience)

thanks for all the tips and helpers...keep 'em commin' ya'll.

wavelength

Nikon D300

10/29/2005 04:58:33 PM · #45

Smile: you cand send them to me if Kelly isn't available. I'm at work, so large files are not a problem.

10/29/2005 05:08:45 PM · #46

Go for it wavelength. I have a busy few days coming up as my son is shipping off to bootcamp on Monday.

11/01/2005 06:16:10 AM · #47

ok people...results are in from my shoot yesterday. these are completly unedited( only resized and saved for web) I know i have alot of cloneing work to do. his face is usually so clear and smooth but he is on a medication to clear it up. I would like to know about what i need to do to make these photos(any and all suggestions appriciated here). I think these are ALOT better than my stab at studio work. due to the sun i had to underexpose all of them but i had my flash set to max(fill flash). again no candy coating please. are these worthy of putting my name on them and sending them to modeling agency with a little bit of work?

quiet_observation

Canon EOS-7D

11/01/2005 06:57:05 AM · #48

The backgrounds and sweater are distracting. Was this mid-day on a sunny day? The daylight is harsh.

My suggestions are to find a outdoor solid wall and have the model 5 feet away from the wall. Shoot in softer light-early morning. Have your model wear plain non-distracting clothes that look better with his skin tone.

Perhaps you should try some black and white photos.

Focus on his eyes.

Neuferland

Google Pixel 2

11/01/2005 07:11:03 AM · #49

Originally posted by maryba:

I was thinking the same thing, the sweater is very wrong for him color wise. I like the posing this time around much better and he does look more relaxed. But look for clothes that are simple yet sophisticated. Does he have a white button down shirt with a collar?

And underexposed is an understatement, he's lost in the shadows and it's going to take a lot of work to fix. As for the skin, he may be taking medication to clear it up, not sure what happened but never shoot when their skin looks like that, can he wear make up for a short time to cover the problems? Because if he was doing this for real they would have a layer of foundation on him to take care of it.

I like the ones with the more solid backgrounds, ex. the trees but the one with the sky running 1/2 way through is head just doesn't look right. Be totally aware of the surroundings and not just the model. :) Hope this helps!

Deannda