Pride Results are less than Stellar

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/19/2005 11:24:15 AM · #1

I believe only three pictures in the top 10 in PRIDE evoke any sense of pride....and that is using a liberal understanding of that word.

Numbers 6-8 are all fine in the correlation to challenge (national and workmanship pride). But seriously, other than those, I see a couple of portraits (both animal and human) and a couple of location shots.

Celebration and Personification results were fantastic and right where they should be. Pride is, well, a joke.

Take away the titles of the rest, and a stretch of the imagination and we have 7 others images that range from sub-par to good in a stand alone judging. I am sure you all disagree. But then again, maybe not.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

10/19/2005 11:31:22 AM · #2

Pride was a tough challenge (as evidenced by a top score of 6.51).

10/19/2005 11:35:39 AM · #3

Tell you what, Cutter; why don't you google around and find some images that show what YOU consider to be an acceptable "expression" of pride on a human face, okay? Speaking of my own entry, I looked at it after downloading (it wasn't shot specifically for the challenge) and said to myself, "Damn, she looks proud of herself!" so I posted it up. I'm more than a little peeved that you'd say this image evokes NO sense of pride.

You're seriously telling us that a picture of a red leaf is a "better" solution to the "pride" challenge than this triumphantly grinning gitl who's just won a race? I'm not taking anything away from the leaf picture, btw, which I think is very nice, and the voters have spoken, but to tell us that this is more immediately relevant than the other strikes me as crazy.

Now, you say you see "a couple of portraits" and a "couple of location shots", implying, I suppose, that portraits and location shots are inadequate vehicles to carry the freight of pride. This also strikes me as ridiculous.

Whatever. I'll let the others speak for themselves if they care to.

Robt.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/19/2005 11:43:37 AM · #4

Agreed Scalvert. And agree mostly with bear_music. I mean no offense, but your explanation is NEEDED to understand the prideful look. Do you see? If we could see a race, or a ribbon, or ticker tape, then fantastic. But photographs are meant to tell a story. I think with the red leaf, most intelligent people relate that to Canada - Pride - Nationalism. and say, "okay, i can see that".

That said, I see a smiling girl, and see no pride involved. I simply believe that pictures that force a story, rather than enhance the story are suffering in both creativity and effect.

notonline

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

10/19/2005 11:45:56 AM · #5

Not take sides bear but the leaf like the american eagle resembles pride for a country. If you look at the photo's without a title I wouldn't have understood your entry (I did not vote or enter the challenge in question). Both are very nice photo's and yes both may fit the challenge in some way but to me the leaf spoke more pride without a title.

I do not agree with cutter suggesting that only the " top 10 in PRIDE evoke any sense of pride" as pride can come in may forms and I can see it moreso that I didn't enter the challenge.

Perhaps people look at their scores see their photo's bombing and start voting a little harder then normal. I for one would like to see a chalenge where the scores are blocked for all who have entered and have no update button and see the outcome as a suprise. I would also like to see for this one challenge that all outtake threads and clarification threads locked during the challenge to allow people to find their own PoV's without using the forums.

10/19/2005 11:47:05 AM · #6

Originally posted by Cutter:

C'mon, get REAL. Again, speaking only of my proud winner and the red leaf, you're seriously telling us that absent any "challenge" at all, and absent any descriptive title, more people would look at a shot of a red leaf and say "Now, THAT's pride!" than would say the same thing about the girl? C'mon, man...

R.

troberge

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

10/19/2005 11:50:02 AM · #7

Why doesn't DPChallenge just do away with titles all together, that would please the people who are so certain that a good title is not part of 'the package'. Take a look at most Photography Galleries and you would be hard pressed to find photos without titles or names.

10/19/2005 11:50:43 AM · #8

Originally posted by notonline:

I do not agree with cutter suggesting that only the " top 10 in PRIDE evoke any sense of pride" as pride can come in may forms and I can see it moreso that I didn't enter the challenge.

He said worse than that: he said that of the top 10 only three, #'s 6-8, evoked any sense of pride, and that this was being "liberal". Full-out body slam of a post, trashing the entire top 10 and begrudgingly singling out three of them by damning them with faint priase.

R.

Message edited by author 2005-10-19 11:51:37.

troberge

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

10/19/2005 11:52:11 AM · #9

Originally posted by notonline:

Not take sides bear but the leaf like the american eagle resembles pride for a country.

Sorry, but to people of other countries, a leaf is a leaf. I would have had NO idea that this was suppose to represent Canadian Pride without the title.

side note to cutter: I think this perhaps should have gone in the rant section as I feel you probably knew it would get a few people riled up with the tone of your comments.

Message edited by author 2005-10-19 11:54:07.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

10/19/2005 11:52:18 AM · #10

what inferences can you draw from the smiling girl....happiness, joy, happy, ummm that's about it. You definitely captured a moment, but what that moment is about, we have no clue. What if the subject in a smiling picture gets joy from squashing bugs. Is that pride? For all we know (other than what you have just told us), she just squashed a bug and is finding it funny. Do you see?

Nitin

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

10/19/2005 11:53:10 AM · #11

Originally posted by notonline:

Perhaps people look at their scores see their photo's bombing and start voting a little harder then normal.

EddyG's statisticts have proven that this is true.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

10/19/2005 11:53:14 AM · #12

Well, most people voting on the 'Pride' challenge would know what the theme is right? That given, I saw pride immediately in the girls face (image submitted by bear_music).

The challenge also said something about 'your interpretation' in the challenge description. The girl said WAY more to me about pride than a photo of a lion... JMO.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

10/19/2005 11:54:26 AM · #13

troberge, that is why I qualified my statement of correlation to "intelligent people". Canada is a large and influential country and people far and wide know that a Red Maple Leaf has as much to do with that country as an eagle with America, Eiffel Tower with France, Big Ben with England, etc, etc. etc.

Ennil

Nikon D200

10/19/2005 11:55:52 AM · #14

I have to agree that number 6 is a GREAT exemple of pride.

:P Right anyway... There are a couple of images that I just stared at and wondered what made it prideful and just couldn't get to a conclusion but I ended up saying that it must be pride for them and voted according to the photography quality.

There were incredibly beautiful portrait, like Robt's or bucket's child portraits that I feel in love with.

In some of these pictures you could read pride off their faces, in orders you could imagine what they could represent for the photographer.

In these kind of challenges you really have to remember to keep your mind open and try to look at them from different angles. If this doesn't work, vote them like they are pieces of arts not challenge entries.

Let's say the challenge is Dairy and there's a pic of a sunset... Now that's something completly else.

This is the part of DPC that I love... The post-challenge wars...euh debates I mean.

Message edited by author 2005-10-19 12:04:12.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/19/2005 11:57:55 AM · #15

glad2, if you are referring to my lions (notice plural) and understand the multiple meaning of the word pride, then I hope you can conclude I included a family of lions ...aka...a PRIDE to make the challenge work. Of course, I included a double entendre in titling based on the protective nature of a family's head.

If you are referring to the single head shot of a lion, I find that to be a big stretch....

notonline

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

10/19/2005 11:58:12 AM · #16

Originally posted by troberge:

Originally posted by notonline:
Not take sides bear but the leaf like the american eagle resembles pride for a country.

Sorry, but to people of other countries, a leaf is a leaf. I would have had NO idea that this was suppose to represent Canadian Pride without the title.

side note to cutter: I think this perhaps should have gone in the rant section as I feel you probably knew it would get a few people riled up with the tone of your comments.

Consider where this website is based out of, if you grew up in Canada or the USA the you should have studied these 2 countries(not conclusively) and also should have know the eagle to the usa is like the maple leaf to canada. If you watch NHL hockey you might also get this info about the leaf and one of the original 6 hockey teams.

Message edited by author 2005-10-19 11:58:31.

troberge

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

10/19/2005 11:58:41 AM · #17

Originally posted by Cutter:

troberge, that is why I qualified my statement of correlation to "intelligent people".

SLAP!!!!

I guess Canadian emblems are not really that important to education in our country! Sorry, where I come from, we don't even have maple trees! (wouldn't have been able to identify one even if I fell over it!)

Message edited by author 2005-10-19 12:03:22.

10/19/2005 11:59:15 AM · #18

Originally posted by Cutter:

Yes, I see, I understand what you're saying, and I vehemently disagree on basic principles. You seem to be saying "it's not a good depiction of 'pride' if I can possibly associate any other emotion than pride to the expression"; using that logic, I could say (again of the leaf) that it's not a good depiction of "pride" if I can associate any other thought than "pride" to the leaf.

And I repeat, why not take the trouble of showing us a shot or three of people with prideful expressions that you think are utterly unambiguous? By your own statement you have dismissed "portraits" from the running, though, so I suppose you consider the human face as being an inadequate vehicle for the display of "pride". You'll pardon my incredulity here; pride is a uniquely human emotion and I can't imagine a better way to depict it than to show people feeling proud of themselves. Sure, there will always be ambiguity as to what's really being felt (think of how hard it can be soemtimnes to tell if someone is weeping for joy or from hurt) but that's life.

R.

Edit to add: I'm well aware that the Maple Leaf is the national symbol of Canada, and had no trouble associating it with "pride" myself; my point is just that it can be a lot of other things as well.

Message edited by author 2005-10-19 12:02:40.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

10/19/2005 12:01:08 PM · #19

Originally posted by Cutter:

... and understand the multiple meaning of the word pride ...

Ahhh, so there IS more than one way to look at what constitutes pride. I guess that's the beauty in being individuals - we can all see for ourselves what we care to and I guess vote that same way as well - you know as free thinking individuals. ;^)

2hoo

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

10/19/2005 12:03:49 PM · #20

Cutter,
Personal insults are not called for. To "qualify" your intelligent people comment suggests a large portion of DPC participants are not intelligent. You are entitled to your opinion of the PRIDE challenge and I'm sure you could find a large number of people to agree with you and to disagree w/you. That is what makes this site work. Feel free to add your opinions but please don't do it with personal insults.

Tokina AF 12-24mm f/4.0 AT-X Pro DX

10/19/2005 12:03:51 PM · #21

bear_,

you are definitely right about pride being a distinctly human condition. But all the portraits (except for the ones I excluded) in the top 10 do not relay pride farther than your own "reading" of pride into the face. Ennil's (which should have been the winner) uses a portrait to depict pride within context. Number 1,4,9,10 all are straight forward with nothing else enhancing the purpose of the challenge. Simply portraits.

You seem to be saying "it's not a good depiction of 'pride' if I can possibly associate any other emotion than pride to the expression";

I do not believe this, I was saying your picture is much more a picture of joy than pride. Not that they are mutually exclusive.

Beagleboy

Canon EOS-30D

10/19/2005 12:07:03 PM · #22

I'm proud I sat this challenge out :P

And oh yeah... GO LEAFS!

Apple iPhone 5

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

10/19/2005 12:07:10 PM · #23

Originally posted by 2hoo:

To "qualify" your intelligent people comment suggests a large portion of DPC participants are not intelligent.

Yea, I always thought they were called a 'flock of lions' up until now.

10/19/2005 12:07:43 PM · #24

i made no personal insult. I said "I think with the red leaf, most intelligent people relate that to Canada - Pride - Nationalism. and say, "okay, i can see that"."

Notice the word most. And the fact remains there are many unintelligent people in the world, who could not make that correlation. That is a fact. Not an insult. That is as bland a statement as saying there are dark haired, medium haired and light haired people in the world. But unintelligent and light haired people exist. So I take it as an insult that you are calling me a slanderer, when I am simply relaying the facts.

edit: And by the way, the red leaf got top 10! So clearly most of DPC gets it, further showing that I did not think DPC people en masse are stupid....Just some of them.

Message edited by author 2005-10-19 12:10:27.

2hoo