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10/09/2005 05:18:06 PM · #1 |
First a background story.....
I don't if anyone remembers..... but, I shot a wedding in August in NY. It was a very ritzy, beautiful wedding. I couldn't understand why they would hire me. (at that point, I had only done 1 other wedding!) They were paying $100 a plate for their guests.... but hired cheap little me! I mean I am not complaining I was ahppy to do the work.
Anyways, the wedding was at sundown... so all the formals were taken at 5pm when the sun was at it's worst. The wedding proved just as much fun. The light was fading down at 7pm, and then it decided to be cloudy all of sudden. Those shots were not too bad.
Then comes the reception.... the lighting was HORRIBLE! It was a yellow ambiance light. So I was taking pictures and noticing that my flash would flash only sometimes. Then it work, then it wouldn't. So, an hour before cutting the cake, my batteries DIE! I have no flash!!!! So my partner ran out to a mini market to get me some. Well he comes back with 2... I need 4! My flash starts freaking out and won't work.... somehow... we get it to work 5 minutes before the cake cutting. PHEW!
Well out of 10-20 shots of the cake cutting 1/2 came out. The flash still wasn't up to par.
Well - go ahead to editing pictures. I find out that all reception shots were shot with a flash that only had 1/2 power! I had to do so much in PS to get them looking good without making them too grainy.
I get 324 proofs printed and mail them to my bride. She doesn't call me.... I called her 3 or 4 times before I finally get a hold of her. She barks at me that she has been very busy and hasn't had the time to call me back. Well.... she then proceeds to tell me that they are VERY unhappy with the pictures. They are so dark that they are considering not even buying any. I tell her that they are not that dark... the printer printed them a bit too dark. I told her that I would gladly reprint them and send them to her again. She asks if she can just buy a disc with all the pics on so that she can take them to a professional to get them fixed. OUCH! I told her sure..... for $500! She says that I can email her a few so she can see that they are really not that bad. I put some up on my Fotki album for her to see. It took her 2 days to look at them, now it has been 4 days and she hasn't called me or anything to see where we are going from here.
I am really getting frustrated. She knew that I had only shot one wedding before hers.... if she was spending so much money on her wedding.... why didn't she just hire someone who had more experience? I don't know what to do anymore. I am ready to just send her all the pics on disc and say forget it! The worst part of all of this, is that I made a total $60 on the whole wedding so far! I was a moron and only chraged her $200 for the wedding (+ prints). It cost me $70 in gas and a room (she paid for the room another night) and then $70 for all the proofs!
Ugh! Sorry this is so long...... but I really needed to vent to people who would understand!
Thanks,
Lorrie
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10/09/2005 05:22:07 PM · #2 |
First of all, DO NOT SEND HER ANOTHER THING! Seriously, if you want to be taken seriously, don't give in to her demands like that. You have done everything she has asked. If she wants the rest on disc to take to another photographer, stick to your guns. $500, no reduced fee.
Contact her one more time and let her know she has x (you choose the number) number of days to contact you to settle this once and for all or her pictures will no longer be available. You have been more than patient with her.
Deannda
Be firm |
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10/09/2005 05:34:05 PM · #3 |
It sounds like she is really unhappy with the photos. Did you have a contract? Was there anything in there about what would happen if the photos didn't turn out to her satisfaction? How long was it after the wedding before she got to see the proofs? (just to help with the time frame.) Also, did you say you would send her some reprints, but then put them on the web instead? Maybe she's waiting for some reprints?
I wish you the best with this one. Sounds like you've put a lot of work into it.
Message edited by author 2005-10-09 17:35:03. |
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10/09/2005 05:40:04 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by jpochard:
It sounds like she is really unhappy with the photos. Did you have a contract? Was there anything in there about what would happen if the photos didn't turn out to her satisfaction? Also, did you say you would send her some reprints, but then put them on the web instead? Maybe she's waiting for some reprints?
I wish you the best with this one. Sounds like you've put a lot of work into it. |
She asked for some to be emailed but he put them on the web instead. Even if the pictures printed dark and it was explained that was more the printer than the actual shot.
I'm all for "the customer is always right" to a point, but when the customer can't be bothered to even return calls after several attempts and the customer is demanding instead of communicating I have a tendency to get the transaction over asap and move on and if that customer ever calls back again, I'm busy, sorry.
I currently have 2 extra cats because a customer can't be bothered to check on them and pay for their board like he's supposed to. The only time I get anything from him is if I call him first. After the last time he stopped by and the cats went running from the room and wouldn't have anything to do with him or his kids I told my husband that we would never hear from him again and we haven't. That was a month ago, he was supposed to check in every 2 weeks.
Be firm, you did what you were asked to do, you did the best you could under the circumstances and now let her know she has x amount of days to contact you to make arrangements to either pay for the disc or hope that friends and family got enough pictures to keep her happy. Be extra, sugary nice about it but then don't contact her again and write it off if she doesn't follow up.
Deannda |
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10/09/2005 06:08:37 PM · #5 |
Ah...I see now it said "email". I initially read that as "mail".
The nice thing about being your own boss is that you don't have to take every client! I've referred some real estate business to others because of knowing that the payment I would receive for working with a certain client wouldn't be worth it. I agree that sometimes the best thing to do as a professional is to get out. |
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10/09/2005 06:11:06 PM · #6 |
I would certainly make sure if you send them any samples for them to try and print at a "professional" they should have a large water mark on them so that she cannot print them and not pay you. Make sure she knows that she does not have full copy rights to the images and can only have the images to print samples.
You should also advise her of how the images can look different on different monitors and she should test this herself with the images you placed on the web.
Good luck.
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10/09/2005 06:19:00 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by jpochard:
It sounds like she is really unhappy with the photos. Did you have a contract? Was there anything in there about what would happen if the photos didn't turn out to her satisfaction? How long was it after the wedding before she got to see the proofs? (just to help with the time frame.) Also, did you say you would send her some reprints, but then put them on the web instead? Maybe she's waiting for some reprints?
I wish you the best with this one. Sounds like you've put a lot of work into it. |
I have a contract for each wedding I shoot. Here is what I have in about pictures being ruined etc etc:
"I take the utmost care with respect to exposure, transportation, and processing the photographs. However, in the unlikely event that photographs have been lost, stolen, or destroyed for reasons within or beyond my control, my liability is limited to the return of all payments received for the event package. The limit of liability for a partial loss of originals shall be a prorated amount of the exposures lost based on the percentage of total number of originals. "
So if she wants to raise a big stink about it... she could say I have to refund her money.
In my contract it also says that editing and printing will be done in 3-6 weeks. I got her proofs in 3 weeks. I had such a hard time working on them and it took longer than I expected. I did tell her this so she knows why it took a bit long to get them back. But still.... her ordering prints shouldn't take 3 weeks!
I did say that I would send her prints, but she said that emailing a few to her would be fine. That is why I put some on my gallery for her to see. Emailing them would've taken forever!
I just want to get this over and done with. I am getting myself very sick over this... and I just want to feel good again! And get her out of my hair!
Message edited by author 2005-10-15 09:23:39.
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10/09/2005 06:19:23 PM · #8 |
I agree...DO NOT send her anything! If she likes them she will BUY them. If she thinks they are bad then she doesn't need to have pics she doesn't like anyway for free.
DO NOT give in to her! BE FIRM, if you told her $500 don't budge.
Better to be out the money you're at now that add to your debt.
Good luck!
Message edited by author 2005-10-09 18:20:10.
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10/09/2005 06:43:33 PM · #9 |
Just make sure you watermark the ones on the website. You dont want her saving them to her own computer and getting them printed. Don't rely on disabling the "save picture as" function as there are ways around that.
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10/09/2005 06:51:31 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
She asks if she can just buy a disc with all the pics on so that she can take them to a professional to get them fixed. OUCH! |
Can you send me one full rez? I'll give her a quote and I bet she likes her pics better then. ;)
M
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10/09/2005 06:53:08 PM · #11 |
Contrary to what others are suggesting, I'd be quite amicable to the bride, especially if you don't have indemnification insurance.
I know of a photographer, who also had a signed contract, who was sued because a portrait that was supposed come back before Christmas was not processed correctly by the lab. They got their entire order except for a 16x20 canvas print. They sued the photographer for ... "emotional suffering" because the portrait was not delivered on time. They won and the judgement was for $930,000. No joke. He eventually got his own lawyers involved, and ended up settling for $4,000 (plus his legal fees, I'm sure)... which is still not chump-change by any stretch.
I'm sure a bride that has any lawyer friends could easily make a case for "emotional suffering" in court if her wedding pictures didn't come out...
Message edited by author 2005-10-09 18:54:29. |
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10/09/2005 06:58:41 PM · #12 |
I have seen alot of Wedding-Photo cases on the "Afternoon Judge Shows" lately..
You know the type: Judge Joe Brown, Judge Judy, etc, etc.
In almost all cases if the pictures aren't what the wedding party expected, they win..
I don't know what kind of contract you had, and I'm not taking sides, but I know this is a common legal battle latetly, (well on TV at least).. |
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10/09/2005 07:00:28 PM · #13 |
It really worries me that she is not calling back to let time run out. It is going to be 6 weeks next saturday, and I fear that she will wait until last minute so that it is impossible for me to get her prints there, then try to sue me over it!
Her hubby is a doctor.... so they know what they are doing!
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10/09/2005 07:02:59 PM · #14 |
Didn't you get the proofs printed already? Or you mean the actual package? Print SOMETHING out - the best stuff - if she doesn't order. Then send it cert mail with signature confirmation to show when she got it. It may not be HER order she got, but she got editing and printing in 6 weeks. If you think that's what she's doing.
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10/09/2005 07:10:44 PM · #15 |
I did mail her all her proofs..... I mean the total transaction would be done in that time period. Normally it takes me a week to get all the pics edited and then another week to get the prints printed.... so my time is really 2 weeks... 3 tops. The other 3 weeks is up to them and how fast they decide on their pictures.
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10/09/2005 08:32:29 PM · #16 |
When you reply to her, put it in writing, send it certified mail, with a return receipt so she has to sign for it. State that she has to contact you with her final order within 24 hours. If she does not contact you within the 24 hour period it is her concession that she will not hold you any further responsible for pictures or prints or copies since she has already received the proofs. Get with a lawyer friend if you have any to put this as simple yet clear as possible, keeping your side of the original bargain. State where you have done everything you have agreed to and done everything in your power to satisfy the client. That you cannot be held responsible for her failure to act in a timely manner and will not be held responsible for her inability to close the matter. Again, get someone to help you write this so it's as sweet, yet crystal clear. When you send the letter by return receipt you have proof that she received it and that you made the effort to settle the matter in a timely manner.
Deannda
Good Luck |
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10/09/2005 09:57:18 PM · #17 |
I hate to be a wet blanket here, but I can't keep my fingers from typing away...
I don't mean to sound harsh, but it sounds odd to me that you're basically blaming the bride for hiring you in the first place. You've admitted that you did a sub-par job with the shots, and now you're getting upset at the bride...?
I realize that you're charging very little and making very little on the job, but still... this is a responsibility you accepted as their photographer, and if virtually all of the shots turned out poorly, I'd be making every attempt to salvage my reputation if I were in your shoes, no matter what kind of financial hit it was causing me.
I can honestly say that even if I were charging just $200 and earning only $60 on the whole thing, I wouldn't accept ANY money if I had botched the job, and I'd be scrambling to find a way to satisfy the customer in some way or another, including by all means giving her the CD.
I did my first wedding just two weeks ago, and I literally prepared for it throughout the entire summer after booking it in the spring. I worried about running into a situation like you had, with equipment acting up, etc., so I bought a new camera and a new top-of-the-line flash so that I had two full systems on hand. I was prepared with more batteries than I could have ever needed, plus battery chargers. I brought tons of memory, plus an extra hard drive to back it up, and laptop to back up the backups. Days before the wedding, I visited the church, reception hall and homes where I'd be shooting, and I took note of the times of day and lighting I'd be dealing with at each site.
I read up on every wedding thread I could find on DPC, and I studied the work of dozens of other wedding photographers. The studying and the purchases I made ahead of time gave me piece of mind I couldn't live without.
Thankfully, everything went very well with the wedding, and the studying paid off. I delivered the final product to the bride this week, and she was thrilled with my work.
Again, I'm not trying to sound mean here, but in all honesty I think I'd try to be a little more customer service-oriented here. How would you have reacted if this was your wedding, and your positions were reversed?
Message edited by author 2005-10-09 22:02:35. |
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10/09/2005 10:03:01 PM · #18 |
On this subject do any of you guys have contracts you can share with us, or point to a previous thread that may have some ideas?
EDIT: Oh, and I totally agree with Alansfreed! You MUST look after your customer as much as you can. It sounds like maybe you were under prepared. Always have more back up batteries etc than you need. Scout the locations before the wedding so you are prepared and know what to expect. Study other photographers photos for not just ideas but how they have used the lighting. It is YOUR reputation that is on the line and there is nothing better than having people book you from word of mouth.
Message edited by author 2005-10-09 22:09:51. |
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10/09/2005 10:55:50 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by alansfreed:
I hate to be a wet blanket here, but I can't keep my fingers from typing away... |
Thank you alansfreed, I agree completely. This is exactly why I have not yet done a wedding...
I would encourage every rookie photographer (and I'm taking this advice myself) to seriously consider what they are capable of and what they claim they can deliver.
As for some of the advice of the others in this thread, I shake my head. I'm constantly telling people to be firm with customers and to ask fair pricing for photos and other work BUT (!) that assumes that you have delivered what you promised the customer!
Message edited by author 2005-10-09 22:58:41. |
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10/09/2005 11:20:01 PM · #20 |
Alan... I have offered to print her a whole new set of proofs to show her that they are not really that dark. I also told her that I will do what I have to, to make her happy.
I realized the other day that the files are darker than what I had thought. Looking at them in PS7, they look wonderful... but in other programs they are looking very dark. I am going to have to try to redo the whole thing over again (she was mainly mad that the pics were so dark, that is all) PLUS try to get the wedding I shot last weekend done in time!
I am to the point where I am so depressed and fed up with this, that I am ready to send her the disc and just lose the money. Hell I am even ready to hang up the ol' D70 and call it quits. I have never had a problem like this with all the other shoots I have done.
What really ticks me off, is that PS7 is acting up. I have never had this happen while editing other pictures. It just did it with this wedding.... even the one I did last weekend is coming out perfect!
Here is what I am talking about.
I am sure that if this wouldn't have happened, I wouldn't be in this perdicament right now.
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10/09/2005 11:23:55 PM · #21 |
Send me a full rez of one of the original dark pics - I just wanna see what I can do with it. :) I have retouched about 15000 wedding photos this summer.
matt@pictureinfinity.com
Message edited by author 2005-10-09 23:26:54.
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10/09/2005 11:31:46 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
Here is what I am talking about.
I am sure that if this wouldn't have happened, I wouldn't be in this perdicament right now. |
Hey nsoroma79! It's asking me for a password! |
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10/09/2005 11:32:25 PM · #23 |
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10/10/2005 09:03:12 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by Makka:
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
Here is what I am talking about.
I am sure that if this wouldn't have happened, I wouldn't be in this perdicament right now. |
Hey nsoroma79! It's asking me for a password! |
The password is look
I think my husband and I figured it out.... it took awhile, but I can now see the same picture in PS7 and in another file. So, today I have th task of re-editing 324 pictures! Yippee!
Message edited by author 2005-10-10 09:03:36.
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10/10/2005 10:22:32 AM · #25 |
I agree with Alan and his comments about prep.
I don't think the bride is being a bridezilla. I assume she saw your other work and chose you for the 'value' (price/quality). perhaps she had other motives - depends on what your contract says.
Your price is ludicris. $200 for 6-10 hours, plus travel, time away from home, etc? Are you insane or was the photography a gift? Even if you are the cheapest photographer in teh world, $20 an hour for your time is still giving it away, and that does not incluce the travel, editing, phone time, meetings, etc.
As to her taking time to pick the proofs for an album - i know of more than one bride that has NOT picked their pics for months. the one wedding i shot this summer the bride's sister had taken a year and still not picked her pics!
Did you have a contract, a written one? If not, that was another of your learning experiences for the future. If you did, get it to a lawyer for review. While you can find lots of contracts on the web or at NEBS.com, each state has slight differences so you must have a local lawyer look it over. If you crossed state lines, then you might want to have a lawyer ffrom the other state look it over as that is where the service was performed.
I would not hesitate - get a good set of proofs printed, overnight them with return receipt and a letter of apology/offer her something extra.
If you have some time, print up an Asuka book or one of the other album type books - $12-$70 price range and it'll look better and be harder to copy than a pile of proofs, and is cheaper than a prof album.
You don't need to give up wedding photography just because of a bad experience - but use it as a learning expereince and be more prepared next time. |
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