Big vote night at the camera club

09/07/2005 01:16:05 PM · #1

[I can type a lot when I should be working.]

A little over a year ago, I started attending a local camera club because my uncle was a member and kept suggesting I go. I really had no interest in going to a club but once I started going, I began to enjoy it. It's nice to be able to talk in person about photography and I do much better submitting generic entries than I do conforming to a challenge topic.

When I joined, I was the only one shooting digital. There were some obvious digital critics but we began to slowly work through the issues - like no, you do not need to buy a new flash card every time yours fills up and yes, it is possible that some of my photos were actually taken that way and not created in Photoshop, etc. After the meetings, people would start coming over to talk to me "in secret" about their interest in digital.

Now we've gotten to the point where we've begun to consider purchasing a digital projector so that those who shoot digital can continue to share. (I've gotten tired of printing out, matting and framing anything I want to bring so I've stopped submitting.) A number of people have at least purchased an additional camera that's digital and some are considering making the leap. We've had a well-known long-time digital photographer come in and give a presentation with his digital projector. We've polled other clubs in our council about how they handle digital (and all but one do). However, we have some very strong opponents. Now we are dealing with issues like "you can't display digital photos for less than $10,000" or "then we'll have to scan all the slides and display those digitally because you can't have both!" etc. We've discussed and discussed and put off the vote but we're doing it for sure tonight because some people are now ready to move on to another club if we don't go digital. That's what I was going to do as well until I accidentally got elected president. So now, not only do I have to stay, I have to run this meeting. Eep. I'm not really looking forward to it. As the newest and youngest member by far, I'm a little uneasy about "pushing my agenda," although it's not like my agenda was a secret and they did elect me so I guess that's what they wanted?

So wish me luck and bring the suggestions about I can smoothly run this vote and convince them to add digital! (Already suggested: wear a short skirt and smash my gavel really loudly on the desk and break something.)

cheekymunky

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II

09/07/2005 01:39:05 PM · #2

I have been reading a few "digital photo" magazines of late, just to get a few ideas etc. Often they have articles on prominent professional photographers... most of which shoot film! hasselblad's then scanning the negatives. My point is (which I'm putting rather ineloquently) is that its a "photography" club, the media should be irrelevant to the finished piece to a certain extent.

I dont think it costs TOO much to project digital shots nowadays, and if you already have the equipment to do films I hope people see their way to appease both sides!

Good luck!!!

Message edited by author 2005-09-07 13:39:57.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

09/07/2005 01:50:03 PM · #3

Originally posted by mk:

...until I accidentally got elected president.

;^)

BMacD

Olympus 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 Zuiko Digital Zoom

09/07/2005 01:51:48 PM · #4

Hi!

I'm a member of a photo club that prefers slides and print too! One member was brave enough to show her digital pics. Really nice pic's but the projector she borrowed from another member, could not be colour calibrated to her computer. (Not while everybody watched!)She had a lot of grief about not checking her equipment...and it put us digital people back a bit.

Hope you have better luck! :-)

BlackDot

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

09/07/2005 01:54:40 PM · #5

The club I go to has 70% e-photography. Slides, prints etc make up the rest. Judges vote on a properly calibrated big monitor, and the members view the photos on the projector screen.

Good luck!

CEJ

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

09/07/2005 02:15:56 PM · #6

In reality you don't need a projector to display digital photos...all you need is a camera that has a video out and a color TV. All three of my digital cams have this output and two of them are point and shoot models.

jpochard

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

09/07/2005 02:16:53 PM · #7

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but if film users need to print and mat their photos to compete, why shouldn't the digital user also print and mat? Of course, I'm digital, but just playing devil's advocate here. Seems like the money could be spent on something that would benefit the whole club.

Good luck with your meeting! Being a leader isn't always easy. I hope the members are reasonable and don't get in a huge uproar over however the vote goes.

09/07/2005 02:22:44 PM · #8

Everyone else shoots slides and the slides are displayed with a slide projector on a screen.

CEJ

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

09/07/2005 02:29:28 PM · #9

What is the age range of this group? I am trying to comprehend the resistance to digital. Is it age related - as in they are lets say my generation or older with hundreds/thousands of dollars of gear built up over 20 years that they don't want to give up? Or possibly the same age group but not up on computers? Fear/lack of knowledge are a big part of resistance to change. If you try to get them to voice their fears about it/ask their questions about it without voicing their 'angry resistance' to the change, perhaps you can get a productive discussion going where your experience and knowledge will prove to be the key.

Message edited by author 2005-09-07 14:30:23.

jpochard

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

09/07/2005 02:32:59 PM · #10

Originally posted by mk:

Everyone else shoots slides and the slides are displayed with a slide projector on a screen.

Ok, I understand now. My camera club uses all prints for the monthly competition. Let us know how it all goes!

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

09/07/2005 02:36:31 PM · #11

Originally posted by mk:

As the newest and youngest member by far, I'm a little uneasy about "pushing my agenda," although it's not like my agenda was a secret and they did elect me so I guess that's what they wanted?

So wish me luck and bring the suggestions about I can smoothly run this vote and convince them to add digital! (Already suggested: wear a short skirt and smash my gavel really loudly on the desk and break something.)

They elected you as their leader, they knew your agenda, so lead them along. If they don't like the direction of your leadership, they can impeach you and then you can go join a digital friendly camera club.

BTW when I suggested using a hammer to break things, I didn't mean some dinky gavel, I meant a BIG hammer, something that would make Thor jealous. I have a 20lb mallet on a 36" handle that's used for timber framing if you want to borrow it.

Message edited by author 2005-09-07 14:38:11.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

09/07/2005 02:38:14 PM · #12

The group is mostly older. I'm not sure what age you are (and can't tell by your ass :P) but I'd say the majority of the users are 65-75 with a few in their mid 50's and then me (27). I'm guessing that the issue is A. fear of the unknown B. fear that film/they/whatever will be somehow pushed out.

The intention is in no way to force people to go digital. I'm harboring no delusions that people are going to switch over completely (or at all). The digital people just want the same considerations allowed to them - to be able to present on screen like everyone else, not be forced to submit an 8x10 print which, even when well done, just doesn't have the same impact as a giant screen.

The club is going to die out if they don't adapt. I'm not trying to issue doomsday ultimatums here, but it's the truth. We aren't attracting any new members because everyone who visits shoots digital and doesn't stay. We aren't attracting new members because the ones who visit are younger and are looking for a group of peers and aren't finding it in a group of slide photographers. Etc.

I do understand the fear and that's part of my issue in running this meeting - I don't it to seem like I'm there to TAKE OVER. But at the same time, it just seems like such a logical progression that it's difficult to understand the hesistancy. Why shut out an increasingly larger group of photographers?

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

09/07/2005 02:40:34 PM · #13

spazmo seems to like hammers. ;)

mk, sadly, in situations like this, people say they want to grow, but they don't want the new people that it requires.

Best o' luck to ya!

Matthew

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Peleng 8mm f/3.5 Fisheye MC In M42 Mount

09/07/2005 02:43:55 PM · #14

Would you be using the two projectors side by side, on the same projection screen? Might be nice to emphasise that photos could be projected amd presented in exactly the same manner, the only difference being which projector is turned on.

I assume that you have done this before, but letting people play with your digital SLR is the best way of encouraging a transition.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

09/07/2005 02:46:43 PM · #15

Originally posted by legalbeagle:

Would you be using the two projectors side by side, on the same projection screen?

Yup. People would either email me their submissions beforehand or bring them on usb key or whatever and I would compile them. The two projectors would be side by side, one turned on right after the other was turned off. I've visited other clubs in the area who do it this way and it works quite nicely.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

09/07/2005 02:51:45 PM · #16

I know at this late date, it wouldn't be possible, but have others in the club, preferably some of the "naysayers" actually seen how it worked?

CEJ

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

09/07/2005 02:51:58 PM · #17

So seems age and fear of new technology may be the problem. They may nothave the necessary computer skills and fear the thought of obtaining them. Processing photos is a lot different than surfing the net or emailing the grandkids.

Perhaps suggestions of lessons, or getting local students in to volunteer and teach some basic courses. Lots of possibilities that could enrich the experience of the club.

Sounds like you got the ball all the way in your court. Don't just lob it back over the net. Pass it back with benefits.

Oh...my ass is 47.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

09/07/2005 02:52:16 PM · #18

Originally posted by karmat:

spazmo seems to like hammers. ;)

mk, sadly, in situations like this, people say they want to grow, but they don't want the new people that it requires.

Best o' luck to ya!

I just like breaking things or pounding the crap out of them to make them behave.

Seriously, I would emphasize that you don't intend to leave the film guys behind, but rather embrace digital in addition to film. I would expect that most of the die-hard film photogs are afraid that they'll lose their club and it will "go digital" and they'll be dumped by the side of the road sucking exhaust fumes.

mesmeraj

09/07/2005 02:55:04 PM · #19

Originally posted by mk:

until I accidentally got elected president.

You too huh?
From one accidental president (of the local artisans association, studio and art gallery) to another Good luck with the vote!!

p.s. i'm also the newest and youngest by 20some years.
I feel your uneasiness.

Message edited by author 2005-09-07 14:56:54.

behindthescenes

Nikon D70

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

09/07/2005 02:58:22 PM · #20

cool ive been looking for a camera club near me.. any fellow south floridians know of any?

jmlelii

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 200-500mm f/5.6E ED VR

09/07/2005 02:59:04 PM · #21

I am here to offer some advice.

I belong to the Delaware County Camera Club, which has been around for what will be its 68th year. The majority of our members are in the age bracket of 60+. 99% of them shoot 35mm film and/or slide.

There are a few of us (I'd say less that 5) who shoot digital.

Most the club is curious about digital photography, yet they are scared of it because they would basically have to learn all over again. It's a very steep learning curve as some of us know.

We too now are considering the purchase of a digital projector. I don't believe it costs anywhere near $10,000 to show off digital slides, though you probably are looking at around $3-4000, depending on if the club has a computer or someone has a laptop they can configure with the projector. I still prefer showing prints rather than showing digital slides, because when you print, what you see is what everyone else see's. Showing digital slides, things can differentiate as im sure you are aware of.

My suggestions to you are as follows...

1. Create an anoynmous questionaire and hand it out at your meeting. On it, ask how everyone feels towards digital. Ask them what they think the pro's and con's are, and ask them if they feel it a good investment to purchase a Digital Projection setup.

2. Create digital programs explaining the basics of Digital Photography. You have to open the subject up to everyone in order to have them like it.

3. Schedule shooting days, and show them that not all digital photographers manipulate their work. I think the problem here is that Digital Artists get confused with Digital Photographers, so maybe point out the difference to the folks who might have it confused.

4. You will obviously need to write new contest rules so that there are rules for digital photographs. We have now written rules that say no digital art is allows, no moving or adding of major elements, etc etc. The folks in my club arent much into the art part of digital, though one guy does like to use filters, and we have deemed that ok in the rules.

Really, you just need to talk with the hardcore film users. And also, you must spread the word about the club, because the more young folks you bring in, the larger the digital side of the club will grow and be more accepted.

You know my club isnt digital biased, because I won print of the year, and well of course I shoot digital, so things do look up. Good luck being president, and if you ever want some advice or help or whatever, please do get in contact with me.