how to make a black and white photo !

08/29/2005 03:10:26 PM · #1

Hi I have a unusual question, how should I make a B/W photo? (i know sounds stupid eh??), there is method in my madness,
Should I set my camera, a Canon A95) to the B/W setting OR set it to the color setting and then take the colour out using Photoshop etc. The reason I ask this is that Ive noticed that some of my photos come out better if i take them in colour and THEN take out the colour using editing but then some photos come out better by setting the camera to the B/W setting !
Ive tried various settings to take photos but I cant seem to pin down which method will work for a given situation. Im very new to photography so Im at loss to fully understand whats happening although ive been reading on the web and i cant find an answer. Can anyone tell me what happens in the camera when i change the setting from B/W to colour and vice versa?? Does this alter the way the sensor works?
thanks for any help you can give
ALi

08/29/2005 03:14:12 PM · #2

You can get more control over your b/w photos if you take it in color and post-process. If you plan on processing certain photos in b/w you can possibly add on different filters on your camera to deepen certain parts of the composition.

Message edited by author 2005-08-29 15:15:28.

08/29/2005 03:18:08 PM · #3

Funny you should mention that, I did by a cheapish Cokin filter and Ive been using a red filter as well as a polarising filter on my camera, I know the quality isnt going to be fantastic but it does seem to make the photos seem much more in balance(if thats the right term for it)

Jinjit

08/29/2005 03:19:28 PM · #4

Personally I think that it is very much depends on your subject.
There are photos that I know before even shooting them, that they should be b&w.
In this case I am usually taking the photo as b&w or sepia set in cam settings.
I also play a lot with the camera's contrast and white balance options when taking a b&w shot, so that end result will need as little PP as possible.

But Faidoi is right. If you are taking the picture in color mode, then you have more control over processing it to B&W.
But you should be aware of the MANY MANY different methods of processing.
And each of those methods can generate completely different results for the b&w image.

You will have to do a lot of playing around with that, if you want to produce b&w photos that you really like.

08/29/2005 03:21:21 PM · #5

Originally posted by Jinjit:

can i ask how come you have more control over editing when you shoot in colour ? i thought editing was the same wether the photo was in colour of B/W

Message edited by author 2005-08-29 15:21:49.

08/29/2005 03:26:37 PM · #6

Originally posted by wombler:

can i ask how come you have more control over editing when you shoot in colour ? i thought editing was the same wether the photo was in colour of B/W

You have more infomation in the photo to make it the way you want. The less that a camera controls the picture the more control you have. That's the reason why most people shoot RAW (almost no in camera tweak).

Message edited by author 2005-08-29 15:27:15.

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Canon

08/29/2005 03:32:38 PM · #7

Originally posted by faidoi:

so why have a B/W setting at all on a camera?, (im talking about dSLRS, not point and shoot cameras) Ali

Message edited by author 2005-08-29 15:32:57.

magnus

Canon EOS-30D

08/29/2005 03:34:59 PM · #8

If you want to keep it simple, you still have two trivial options in Photoshop: Image-->Mode-->Grayscale and Image-->Adjustment-->Desaturate. Those generally give you different results, and I bet your camera's B&W mode is identical to one of them.

08/29/2005 03:35:07 PM · #9

Originally posted by wombler:

Originally posted by faidoi:
You have more infomation in the photo to make it the way you want. The less that a camera controls the picture the more control you have. That's the reason why most people shoot RAW (almost no in camera tweak).

so why have a B/W setting at all on a camera?, (im talking about dSLRS, not point and shoot cameras) Ali

Some people don't care about tweaking. They want to take a picture and send it off in an email. It's the reason they still have 640X480 mode in cameras.

Canon EOS-20D

08/29/2005 03:35:30 PM · #10

Originally posted by wombler:

so why have a B/W setting at all on a camera?, (im talking about dSLRS, not point and shoot cameras) Ali

dSLRs don't have a B/W setting.

08/29/2005 03:36:37 PM · #11

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by wombler:
so why have a B/W setting at all on a camera?, (im talking about dSLRS, not point and shoot cameras) Ali

dSLRs don't have a B/W setting.

Damn, mines does :( and it has sepia too :(:( I thought the 20D does?

Canon EOS-20D

08/29/2005 03:37:26 PM · #12

Originally posted by faidoi:

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by wombler:
so why have a B/W setting at all on a camera?, (im talking about dSLRS, not point and shoot cameras) Ali

dSLRs don't have a B/W setting.

Damn, mines does :( and it has sepia too :(:( I thought the 20D does?

Oops, I stand correct. SOME do not have a B/W setting. (The 20d does not.)

08/29/2005 03:37:50 PM · #13

Originally posted by magnus:

I don't know what actually happens in the camera when you switch it to B&W mode, but I'm pretty sure it's a software operation that can be easily duplicated in postprocessing. So you never loose any possibilities by saving the image in color. What you gain is a huge variety of options for how to convert to B&W (which essentially boil down to how you mix the red, green, and blue). Take these two for example, they are two different conversions from the same color raw photo:

If you want to keep it simple, you still have two trivial options in Photoshop: Image-->Mode-->Grayscale and Image-->Adjustment-->Desaturate. Those generally give you different results, and I bet your camera's B&W mode is identical to one of them.

Thx that was really usefull im trying it now

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

08/29/2005 03:40:50 PM · #14

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by faidoi:

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by wombler:
so why have a B/W setting at all on a camera?, (im talking about dSLRS, not point and shoot cameras) Ali

dSLRs don't have a B/W setting.

Damn, mines does :( and it has sepia too :(:( I thought the 20D does?

Oops, I stand correct. SOME do not have a B/W setting. (The 20d does not.)

lol im confused enough as it is lmaso

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

08/29/2005 03:42:28 PM · #15

Always shoot in color, period. If you don't, you're relying on the camera to make decisoins on how the Red, Green & Blue channels should be combined to form the B+W image, and just living with the very-probably-suboptimal results.
There are almost as many color-to-B+W conversion techniques as photographers, LOL. Everyone has their favorite, and some are really complex. Here's an easy technique that can yield absolutely top-quality results (instructions based on using PS CS as the editor, PS CS2 and 7.0(?) should work the same):
- Open the image you wish to convert
- Make sure the Layers window is visible
- In the Layers window, click on the "Channels" tab
- Click on the Red, Green and Blue channels to see how each differs; they are displayed in grayscale. Note how differently areas of strong color appear in each channel. If one channel in particluar has a pleasing look in grayscale, you may want to use this channel predominantly in the output
- Now make sure the histogram window is visible
- Select Image>Adjustments>Channel Mixer
- Check the "Monochrome" box at lower left in the Channel Mixer dialog
- Adjust the R, G & B sliders to produce the desired result. The proportions should total about 100%. It's nt necessary to be exact, but deviating will change the white point.
Watch the histogram display to make sure you're not blocking up at the low or high end (too much black or blown highlights). Use your previous investigation of the indivicual channels as a guide to how much of each channel to introduce.
- Click OK when you're satisfied
You now have an RGB image where all the channels contain the same information. You can convert this to 8-bit grayscale if you wish.

mocabela

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

08/29/2005 04:02:17 PM · #16

Originally posted by wombler:

can i ask how come you have more control over editing when you shoot in colour ? i thought editing was the same wether the photo was in colour of B/W

As has been said, channel mixer is one way of completely altering the dynamics of an image when converting to black and white. When you shoot in colour you leave yourself with a great amount of options - though shooting in b&w should hardly be so harshly thought of; I've shot in b&w and had people assume by the tonal range that the original was colour. That said, while you can definitely do a lot to a photograph that's already b&w, it's much *easier* to come up with a great tonal range and to alter the overall mood when you start with colour.

Channel mixer is a lot of fun to play with, but is by no means the only good method to use or the only tool you should experiment with. I do as much of my curves and levels work as I can before I convert to b&w, so that I have something close to what I want the finished image to be like while I'm still in colour. You have to sort of ignore the wild colours when you do this, and just look at the varying levels of light and darkness.

Another thing to try is to convert to a duo-, tri-, or quadtone and experiment with different colours to see what happens. This can also completely change the look and feel of the image.

It all comes down to doing what you feel comfortable with, and finding what works for each image that you're producing. Post processing can be lots of fun, and b&w is my personal favourite of the lot.

--edited for typo

Message edited by author 2005-08-29 16:21:05.

08/29/2005 04:09:34 PM · #17

Originally posted by kirbic:

Thx a lot !, that was really helpfull, im now sitting here playing about with one of my photos when i should be getting ready for work !

RonBeam

Minolta DiMAGE 7

08/29/2005 04:18:12 PM · #18

Originally posted by wombler:

I shoot in RAW mode 95% of the time. If I know a shot I am framing will probably be converted to B&W later, I will set my camera to B&W mode. Even though all the color data will be recorded and I CAN file it later in color, by configuring my setting to B&W I can see through the viewfinder (I rarely ever use the LCD) what my composition will look like and can make contrast and exposure settings (I also shoot in full manual) to give me the desired highlights and shadows as the foundational shot. I can always tweak these later in post processing.

pearlseyes

Canon EOS R7

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Canon

08/29/2005 04:34:00 PM · #19

Another thing to try is to convert to a duo-, tri-, or quadtone and experiment with different colours to see what happens. This can also completely change the look and feel of the image.text

So how do you do this?

magnus

Canon EOS-30D

08/29/2005 05:16:02 PM · #20

Originally posted by pearlseyes:

In Photoshop, after you've done your color-to-B&W conversion and then image-->Mode-->Grayscale, you will find that the mage-->Mode-->Duotone option is no longer gray'd out. Check out the online help, or just play around with the duotone dialog box to see what it does. Basically, it's a much more powerful version of the "Colorize" option in the Hue/Saturation dialog box.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

08/29/2005 05:19:50 PM · #21

Originally posted by pearlseyes:

Tutorial.

bledford

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

08/29/2005 05:23:20 PM · #22

Originally posted by kirbic:

In my experience, the method described above is the most tried-and-true of those floating around on the web and produces dynamic B+Ws and image-to-image flexibility. THis is my preferred conversion technique. Subsequent conversions to greyscale allow me to use the Duo/Tritone features of Photoshop, if I so desire. But I always start with the channel mixer on an adjustment layer.

Message edited by author 2005-08-29 17:23:47.

pearlseyes

Canon EOS R7