To Flash or Not to Flash. - DPChallenge Forums

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

08/26/2005 11:19:20 AM · #1

That is the question.

I have been playing with building a new website and was wondering whether I should animate or not. I have Flash loaded on my computer and I'm sure it wouldn't take that long to learn, but the part I was thinking about is will it add that much or can I, should I do a professional looking site without it.

If anyone had any links to some great graphics or photo site that used static design in a very positive and inviting way I think it would be a great help to me in making up my mind.

Any advice would also be welcome. Thanks.

suprada

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

08/26/2005 11:30:26 AM · #2

I had the same question some time back..well I'll just mention a couple of things I found and and hope it helps you.

I was initially against using flash because people with dialups in other countries might have a problem downloading the required plugin because of abysmal speeds. But then I decided to go ahead and use it anyway because its just a one time installation and is very convenient.

About designing a flash site or not, it sure is very nice to have a cool flash animated website..but IMO I would like to see a site where the emphasis is on photos and not on the site design. the design should try to enhance the photo-viewing experience...

Well, I dont know how good my site is....but you can visit it at
www.dundubhi.com

I do love this site (Masters of fine art)

Also there is this

Hope this helps.

08/26/2005 11:32:55 AM · #3

you can use flash for more than animation. it's usefull for most any other typical web type connectivity. as far building a professional looking site - it could be done with or with out flash.

the nice thing about flash is you don't need to know 5 different coding langauges to make it dynamic. with HTML you have the HTML, CSS, DHTML, JavaScript, PHP among others depending on what you're doing..

as far as learning it in a jiffy - that's unlikely. i would recommend using flash MX as the actionscripting is much more powerful than previous versions, and you can find pre-made componants for different things that you are able to edit to your liking -w/o having to code the whole thing yourself. if you don't want to learn to code with action script - i'd say don't use flash.

my web site is a modified componant - the creator is linked to at the bottom right corner.

the site is three frames long, and there is little to no tweening used. it's always a work in progress as i don't have a lot of time lately.

08/26/2005 11:34:03 AM · #4

check out //www.chipotle.com

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

08/26/2005 11:36:50 AM · #5

if you want to learn to code try //www.actionscript.org

hankk

Canon EOS-5D

08/26/2005 12:02:55 PM · #6

IMO, look at what your customers (the people who you care about viewing your website) expect. If Flash will impress them and give them a positive image of you, and will better highlight what you are presenting use it. But don't just use it to have animation. The Flash "program" is a tool, just as a Canon 580EX flash is a tool, neither is an end in itself.

Also, if you do use flash (or other animation) make sure your site doesn't require it. People are still on dial-up, some browsers don't display flash, and some consider flash a security risk and block it.

BobsterLobster

Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

08/26/2005 12:07:55 PM · #7

Wouldn't take long to learn?! Hah!
I pick up new programming languages easily and find my way around new programmes easily, but Flash has a VERY steep learning curve and is not very intuitive. Good luck.

LeeD

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

08/26/2005 12:32:27 PM · #8

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

Amen! I've been working with Flash for about 2 years (self-teaching) I consider myself pretty versatile with the program, but I still learn more actionscripting every time I design a new site. Recommended reading: O'Reilly's ActionScript for Flash MX The Definitive Guide. It has become my Flash Bible and I don't go far without it.

Message edited by author 2005-08-26 12:34:38.

Prof_Fate

08/26/2005 12:52:30 PM · #9

Flash is the 'hot item' of the moment.
I was taught back in college that yo need to gear your message to your taget audience. Be that the medium, the reading level, the style, etc, the total 'package' had to match what your audience was, and what your message was. If ether missed, the effort was wasted.

Now we apply that to the web. Last I heard broadband was in about 50% of homes. Flash is not viewable on all computers, be choice, by technology, for whatever reason. If your webpage does not load or persent something quickly, the surfer will surf on. Not everyone has the ltest greatest browser, OS or plug in. Not everyone runs IE. Or windows, or mac. Not everyone runs 1024x768 at 16 bit depth.

Personal experience tells me that flash is NOT the way to go. I was at an upscale coffehouse with 'net acess for the patrons. NO flash sites would load. None. So i was showing a friend some wedding photographer websites...guess what...when your site does not come up, the message does not get through. All your efforts are wasted.

The best way is to code yorr site to read the browser specs and then you present a page tailored to their browser/os/plugins. Yes, this is a lot of work. You need to know javascript, html, CSS, dHTML and probably PERL/CGI or ASP, and then worry about Flash.

Think to what message you want to convey - and what is your target audience. If you are after high-end power users then yeah, you better puch the limits. If you are after Joe (sub) average that may get net access from the library then your site had better be designed to a low common denominator. Many people get access via work - the last job i had that i could access the net from we were running 2 verions behind on IE, and could not print. My wife just got net access this year at work (the secretaries have had it for a couple of years now). She cannot print from the net, but can from her corporate system. This is more common that you (or the media) would think.

As for my current coworkers...less than 50% have the internet at home. I think only 1 or 2 other person have broadband. We emply 125 or so people. I doubt this is typical of everywhere, but it is the way it is where i work. I know of at least 5 of my coworkers do not even have computers. I have not discussed this with all of them, so i suspect that number is higher.

Just some things to ponder.

Telehubbie

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/26/2005 01:12:58 PM · #10

Check out this guys amazing site. Definitely not for the dial-up user.

zarniwoop

Nikon D50

Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2.0D

08/26/2005 01:28:34 PM · #11

Use CSS.

kearock

Nikon D90

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

08/26/2005 01:41:28 PM · #12

Flash may be the 'hot' item, but I have seen very few sites where it's implemented well. The vast majority of flash sites I've encountered are way too busy, difficult to navigate, slow to load, and just not all that pleasing to the eye. They all seem to make it difficult to find even the most basic information. In my opinion, the average customer doesn't want to waste time exploring your site, playing with useless toys, or waiting for pointless animations to finish. The want to find out who you are, what your capable of providing them (i.e. good photography, not crazy things flying around their web browser) and how they can reach you. If you can use flash to create something informative and appealing to the eye, more power to you, but don't use flash just because it's 'in'. I think you risk distracting your customers from your product.

Bobster

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

08/26/2005 04:33:24 PM · #13

over here any1 who has a flash site needs a code based site to compliment it for any1 with a disability so that web readers can pick up the text contained in the site

while a well put together flash site is nice, many users get bored of waiting for an effect to happen before they can move on..

you have a split second to capture ur target audience..

flash is gr8 for agencies who have a room full of operators who an all work on a differnt part of a site and can sell the interactiveness of it all to the client..

the majority of web users are now on 1024x768, 16bit display+ there are still a hell of a lot of ppl who use 800x600..

and the other thing about flash is that you can allow it to easily scale to a given res..

alanfreed

Nikon Z9

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

08/26/2005 05:09:02 PM · #14

I've been designing sites for 10 years, and I have always steered clear of Flash. Most Flash sites I've seen, with the exception of some done by really high-end companies, tend to be a showcase of "gadgetry" that a designer wants to inflict upon the world, rather than an easy-to-use, easy-to-navigate site.

My rule of thumb has always been to present the information in a way that gets the viewer the content they're looking for as quickly and as efficiently as possible.

08/26/2005 05:52:50 PM · #15

Originally posted by Telehubbie:

Check out this guys amazing site. Definitely not for the dial-up user.

Originally posted by soup:

check out //www.chipotle.com

These are examples of exactly what I am not looking for. The first one, Ecclesine, took over a minute to load to the home page and I,m on cable. Chipotle was way to busy and way too playful.

Originally posted by suprada:

Well, I dont know how good my site is....but you can visit it at
www.dundubhi.com

I do love this site (Masters of fine art)

Also there is this

Dundubhi.com appears to have been built from a template. It uses Flash in a very simple and effective way, but the load times on the images are just a little slow. I like the design.

Peter gasser's site, Masters of Fine Art, uses Java Script, but for what reason, I have no idea. Everthing on the site could have been built without it. The site appears to have been built from the ground up, is very tasteful and loads very quickly. A saw a few flaws in dead-end navigation, but that is not a major drawback.

The Tim Flach site loads a little slower. It also uses Java, but was built from a template. The animation is tastefully done and once the site opens it loads and navigates quickly.

I still haven't made up my mind. If I use Flash or Java for animation, all I am looking for is a simple fad-in for the title and the images. I understand Java to some small degree, but not enough to write an animation. Mostly I can just manipulate an existing script to make it do what I want.

08/26/2005 06:07:12 PM · #16

the chipotle site is clean - lots of negative space - and runs smooth.
i wasn't aiming for you to use it as an example of what YOU should do - but more the fact flash can be used to build and entire site in a clean a simple manner. the designers were aiming for a light hearted fun site, and i think they acheived it.

if you're looking for basic fade in and outs i imagine you could find free code to do what you're after, and leave mainly the graphic design work for you to do in flash. i've seen some decent portfolios designed with flash.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/26/2005 06:19:03 PM · #17

Originally posted by soup:

Yes, I thought the site was fun, but nothing for a photography site.

EddyG

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

08/26/2005 06:30:45 PM · #18

I recently had the same question.

Things that I considered:

1) look at all the "big" sites on the 'net. None of them are "Flash-only" sites. (OK, except maybe HomeStarRunner, but that's a cartoon site, so I can understand. n.b., dragon is still my favorite StrongBad email.)
2) if you have a lot of text or other content to present to the user, it can be a pain to integrate into a Flash site, and when you do, you usually have to make the user use custom scroll bars to scroll through a tiny little bit at a time (like on the chipotle site). Terrible usability in my opinion.
3) the Back button does not work intuitively on almost every Flash-based site I've ever been to
4) printing doesn't work
5) normal keyboard navigation keys that you are used to in your browser don't work on flash sites
6) hard to search
7) difficult for users to bookmark a specific section of your site
8) all the cute little "transition animations" and noises get annoying after the first 30 seconds
9) other stuff I'm probably forgetting

In the end, I designed my site using XHTML and CSS, with a bit of Flash for just the gallery portion of the site. I'm happy with it for the time being. It is easy to update, and thanks to CSS, easy to manage the "look and feel".

Message edited by author 2005-08-26 18:37:11.