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08/09/2005 11:19:23 AM · #51 |
| We are spoiled with our gas prices. I hate it too, but people around the world have dealt with prices more than twice what we pay for a long time, they manage somehow. I think we can too. Perhaps it will curb the use of people driving around rediculous SUV's down the suburban freeways. SUV's are fine, if you actually take them off of the road, but a lot of people don't actually do that. No room to complain bout gas prices there. |
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08/09/2005 11:22:08 AM · #52 |
Stats from the CBC about gas prices and taxes included (% of price):
US - 29%
UK - 76%
Canada - 40 - 50%
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08/09/2005 11:34:20 AM · #53 |
I never thought I would be happy I "only" pay $2.17 a gallon. I think I have the lowest gas prices so far on DPC. To think I was compplaining that gas pices had doubled in the last 5 years.
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08/09/2005 11:35:52 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Stats from the CBC about gas prices and taxes included (% of price):
US - 29%
UK - 76%
Canada - 40 - 50% |
This is the critical part of pricing and was going to mention it myself. When discussing petrol prices, subtract out the taxes, then determine price location to location. The taxes placed on goods is determined by each country/state/province/locality. These taxes are the items that should be addressed by those most affected. It is their representatives that have voted to support these taxes. If you vote for the those that vote for the tax, then don't complain about the cost of the taxes. If you don't like paying the taxes, then vote out the representatives that voted in favor of adding the tax.
Simple really.
When societies CHOOSE to support the masses via a "use tax" system, then goods used will have higher prices due to the tax applied. |
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08/09/2005 11:38:13 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by elderell:
It's hovering around $2.20/gallon here in Upstate SC...Funny thing with vehicles-On a road trip,my bumpy riding 4 cyl Nissan pickup averages around 25 mpg..Same trip,but in the wife's very comfortable 6 cyl Buick Century,we average around 33 mpg..You'd think,considering the weight and horsepower,it'd be the opposite...The pickup is a basic 5 speed stick,the Buick an automatic w/cruise and power everything !! |
cruise control also helps keep the mileage at a good rate. When I travel south to KY I have to go through Chicago first and the stop and go kills me, and on a good day I barely make it 230 miles before I get the feeling I really should fill up. When I come back it is all open road till illinois and I can usually make it 300 miles before stopping to fill up. I could probably get farther but I try and stop when prices are a little cheaper and I feel better going through Chicago with a full tank of gas...not some good areas to run out in that is for sure.
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08/09/2005 11:40:42 AM · #56 |
I've always thought that we should be paying the world price at the pumps. What would be interesting would be the amount of subsidy that government(s) provide to keep the prices down.
Now, the Bush administration is talking of opening up the wildlife reserves in Alaska for drilling. What is wrong with this picture?
On one hand, it is adressing the problem of reliance on non-domestic sources of oil however ignores the main issue of over-consumption.
(sorry to add politics to this thread - not intended to turn into a rant)
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08/09/2005 11:40:58 AM · #57 |
| The % of tax only sets the initial price it doesn't change the fact that the price has been going up steadily for some time well beyond the rate of inflation over hear. |
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08/09/2005 11:43:25 AM · #58 |
I have a little hatchback with a 30L gas tank that gets me almost 600km on the highway. On average, with some city driving I will get 550km (ca. 330 miles) on my $24 USD fillup which just about covers me for a week. And my wife and I only own one car.
Believe me, the amount of gas money that many people could save is unbelievable if you live smart.
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08/09/2005 11:45:26 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Believe me, the amount of gas money that many people could save is unbelievable if you live smart. |
Get rid of that SUV or at the very least don't use it to commute.
Message edited by author 2005-08-09 11:45:51.
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08/09/2005 11:52:46 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Believe me, the amount of gas money that many people could save is unbelievable if you live smart. |
Also the money that could be saved if people didn't smoke, consume alcohol, use make up, update their wardrobes, own more that 3 pairs of socks, buy music CD's, consume snacks, go to movies/concerts/plays, own a house bigger than the bare necessities........
Oh wait a minute, what am I saying, some of this is just living your life and making individual decisions with YOUR money.
Ok, sorry for the tangent. I got temporarily confused. |
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08/09/2005 12:00:51 PM · #61 |
| In Quebec, Canada, we currently have a price of 1.08 CAN$/litre that's approx 3.365 US$/Gallon if we do the conversion. That's the highest price we have ever had here!! Damn it. Good thing I don't live 50km away from work anymore :) |
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08/09/2005 12:01:56 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Believe me, the amount of gas money that many people could save is unbelievable if you live smart. |
Also the money that could be saved if people didn't smoke, consume alcohol, use make up, update their wardrobes, own more that 3 pairs of socks, buy music CD's, consume snacks, go to movies/concerts/plays, own a house bigger than the bare necessities........
Oh wait a minute, what am I saying, some of this is just living your life and making individual decisions with YOUR money.
Ok, sorry for the tangent. I got temporarily confused. |
Just because some have the money to squander resources, doesn't mean they should.
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08/09/2005 12:08:33 PM · #63 |
| Especially when they complain about the price of keeping their toys going. |
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08/09/2005 12:08:46 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Believe me, the amount of gas money that many people could save is unbelievable if you live smart. |
Also the money that could be saved if people didn't smoke, consume alcohol, use make up, update their wardrobes, own more that 3 pairs of socks, buy music CD's, consume snacks, go to movies/concerts/plays, own a house bigger than the bare necessities........
Oh wait a minute, what am I saying, some of this is just living your life and making individual decisions with YOUR money.
Ok, sorry for the tangent. I got temporarily confused. |
I quit smoking, drive a $600 car that gets 27mpg and that only 7000 miles a year, drink a case a beer a year, don't wear make up, don't update my wardrobe (i wear free t-shirts or work uniforms), wear sandals most of the time (but i do own more than 3 pair of socks..they only sell what i need in 6 packs), I have bought only 1 CD in over 5 years, currently giving up snacks (to pay for gas!), go to a movie a year (I do rent DVDs though), have not been to a concert in over 5 years or a play in 8. Perhaps my house is bigger than it needs to be. I quit mowing 1/2 my grass this year to save fuel/time/money.
If it weren't for this damnable hobby, I'd probably be rich enough to squander resources!
Message edited by author 2005-08-09 12:09:51.
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08/09/2005 12:26:52 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Just because some have the money to squander resources, doesn't mean they should. |
Which is precisely what I believe happens to much of the taxes collected by governments placed on petrol. Collect alot of money, squander it on un-necessary programs or those that have outlived their contribution. (I have wondered how some in the UK felt about the recent terrorists being supported to live in their communities, by the very taxes they have paid on petrol.)
Petrol prices are a concern of many many people around the world. It is imperative IMO to separate out the taxes, so that one can do an apples to apples comparison. Conservation is an admirable action on many fronts. Conservationists sometimes are not aware of how their words/actions can be interpreted as infringing on others rights of choice. If a society chooses to support portions of itself with taxes on goods, then that society can make that choice. I just do not see that 6.00 a gallon is comparable to 2.50 a gallon when 2 different societies have made different decisions on funding.
From a conservationists point of view, I would hope that all electronics users have converterd to rechargeable batteries, however I am not prepared to outlaw and punitively punish those that still buy regular batteries. I wish they did'nt, I encourage them to consider rechargeables, I feel it is a wiser use of money in the long run, however it is not criminal IMO to purchase non-rechargeables.
Likewise, societies that choose to support themselves through "use tax" systems is good by me. Their society, their choice. |
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08/09/2005 12:29:21 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
I quit smoking, drive a $600 car that gets 27mpg and that only 7000 miles a year, drink a case a beer a year, don't wear make up, don't update my wardrobe (i wear free t-shirts or work uniforms), wear sandals most of the time (but i do own more than 3 pair of socks..they only sell what i need in 6 packs), I have bought only 1 CD in over 5 years, currently giving up snacks (to pay for gas!), go to a movie a year (I do rent DVDs though), have not been to a concert in over 5 years or a play in 8. Perhaps my house is bigger than it needs to be. I quit mowing 1/2 my grass this year to save fuel/time/money.
If it weren't for this damnable hobby, I'd probably be rich enough to squander resources! |
Very good post. At least someone got my point. ;-] |
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08/09/2005 12:41:25 PM · #67 |
Someone asked earlier in this thread who did we blame in the UK for the high price of petrol (gas). Flash also pointed out that the taxes are to blame for the cost. This is very true in the UK but there is not a lot of moaning about the cost of fuel, everyone just pays it ( except for one small uprising a few years ago).
The taxes do pay for many things, contributing to our free(ish) health, schools,police etc but there is a feeling I believe that more should be spent from these taxes on the road system itself. Then it would mean motoring was more pleasurable and you would feel your taxes on fuel were helping.
Someone else asked how we felt that the taxes were supporting the terrorists who bombed us recently - these were British citizens and were probably paying into the tax system themselves. I don't think anyone would worry that the taxes supported them and then they bombed us. More I think that it is awful to think that anyone brought up in a community could do such a thing against others.
P |
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08/09/2005 12:53:04 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Just because some have the money to squander resources, doesn't mean they should. |
Which is precisely what I believe happens to much of the taxes collected by governments placed on petrol. Collect alot of money, squander it on un-necessary programs or those that have outlived their contribution. (I have wondered how some in the UK felt about the recent terrorists being supported to live in their communities, by the very taxes they have paid on petrol.)
Petrol prices are a concern of many many people around the world. It is imperative IMO to separate out the taxes, so that one can do an apples to apples comparison. Conservation is an admirable action on many fronts. Conservationists sometimes are not aware of how their words/actions can be interpreted as infringing on others rights of choice. If a society chooses to support portions of itself with taxes on goods, then that society can make that choice. I just do not see that 6.00 a gallon is comparable to 2.50 a gallon when 2 different societies have made different decisions on funding.
From a conservationists point of view, I would hope that all electronics users have converterd to rechargeable batteries, however I am not prepared to outlaw and punitively punish those that still buy regular batteries. I wish they did'nt, I encourage them to consider rechargeables, I feel it is a wiser use of money in the long run, however it is not criminal IMO to purchase non-rechargeables.
Likewise, societies that choose to support themselves through "use tax" systems is good by me. Their society, their choice. |
So, you should be able to be more wasteful as an individual to prevent the government from being wasteful in some enterprise that benefits some number of people collectively just becuase you don't benefit directly from it?
No one said anything about criminality of being wasteful, just the concept that it is the perogative of the haves to be wasteful to excess.
As far as limiting an individual's rights of choice, what's wrong with that? There are lots of choices an individual might make that are limited because, while they may benefit the individual, the consequences are a detriment to society in general. An individual might choose to build a small nuclear power plant in their backyard. That choice is limited by the government. I might choose to release my pet zebra mussels into Lake Michigan, should that be OK? How about catching and keeping that pike that's just under the size limit? Or keeping one or two more fish than the limit allows? How about shooting endangered species? Should there be no limit on the amount an individual is allowed to benefit at cost to society?
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08/09/2005 01:00:46 PM · #69 |
Spazmo99,
I understand your points. Big questions for a rant thread on "Limiting government/choice"
Perhaps we can start one there. |
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08/09/2005 01:10:49 PM · #70 |
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08/09/2005 01:46:29 PM · #71 |
USD 6,52 per US Gallon for Euro 95 octan unleaded fuel.
We'll probably soon replace the Chevrolet (3.4L V6) we have for something way more fuel efficient.
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08/09/2005 01:51:49 PM · #72 |
How come that Diesel is more expensive then Unleaded? In Holland Diesel is a lot cheaper compared to unleaded.
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08/09/2005 01:58:51 PM · #73 |
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08/09/2005 02:12:20 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
USD 6,52 per US Gallon for Euro 95 octan unleaded fuel.
We'll probably soon replace the Chevrolet (3.4L V6) we have for something way more fuel efficient. |
yeh it makes sense ...but..the power..must have the power....
My daugther has a new car - its an Audio Quatro A4 2.5TDI S4 spec estate. Only had it a week so I dont know what her fuel consumption is yet. She is off to the west country this weekend on hols a trip of approx 236 miles. She should have some idea by then!
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08/09/2005 02:24:28 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by MikeOwens:
My daugther has a new car - its an Audio Quatro A4 2.5TDI S4 spec estate .... She is off to the west country this weekend on hols a trip of approx 236 miles. |
she'll be getting there quite fast :-D
No need to reduce speed that much on the curves LoL |
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