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08/08/2005 03:51:02 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by jseyerle:
Man... This is the type of stuff which makes me think twice about moving back to the US.
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Well hell, they're shooting people in the back of the head in London.
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08/08/2005 03:55:29 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by jseyerle:
Man... This is the type of stuff which makes me think twice about moving back to the US.
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Well hell, they're shooting people in the back of the head in London. |
Like that doesnt happen daily back home ;) |
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08/08/2005 03:56:49 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by jseyerle:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by jseyerle:
Man... This is the type of stuff which makes me think twice about moving back to the US.
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Well hell, they're shooting people in the back of the head in London. |
Like that doesnt happen daily back home ;) |
Feel free to stay away. I didn't even notice you were gone. ;-) |
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08/08/2005 03:58:11 AM · #29 |
| Let's discuss issues and not personalities, or this thread will be moved to you-know-where ... |
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08/08/2005 03:59:33 AM · #30 |
Im coming back for your woodies kpreist ;)
Message edited by author 2005-08-08 04:04:51. |
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08/08/2005 04:14:40 AM · #31 |
Accusasions, at least here in the US are very serious.
In some aspects it's good, as many I'm sure are valid.
Now imagine a scenario, and tell me what's wrong with this:
A 3-year old girl, being raised by her father (along with her 1 1/2 year old brother), is taking a bath. In the process of doing what kids do in the way of innocent self-exploration, gets a piece of soap inside of herself, and needs to be taken to the Doctor. The Doctors have no suspicion, the daughter told him what happened when the Dad was out of the bathroom, a medicine is prescribed with an applicator and should be the end of it - right?
Wrong.
Enter one disgrundled ex-wife, making accusations of chld molestation, and daughter is taken away, put into protective custody. Doctors are interviewed, daughter and father are interviewed, and then it is dismissed and daughter is returned to the Dad, not without memories she can still remember to this day.
Yes, I am the Dad, and was an actual event in my life.
Like I said, accusations can come at a very high cost.
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08/08/2005 04:24:30 AM · #32 |
In my case, my fiance's 11-year-old daughter was told by her father (who did not have custody) that if she ever wanted to come live with him all she had to do was call the police and say I had molested her. She got angry at her mother one day and did exactly that. The social services people took both her and her brother away from her mother for "evaluation". When she stopped being angry, she recanted; and they didn't believe her. Eventually they dropped it, but the relationship was dead in the water by this time. And this was like in 1979.
Protecting the children is good, but it's been taken to ridiculous extremes by the bearaucracy. This is the only area of American law (at least pre-patriot act) where you are guilty until proven innocent.
Robt.
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08/08/2005 04:28:30 AM · #33 |
Sad story, Brad. It's a complex problem - my gut tells me the ex-wife should be thrown in jail, but then there are the other cases...
I have always liked being around children - especially toddlers, they are just a blast to watch. I've had little girls that my ex-wife babysat have little crushes on me and stuff and it was all so cute. When I was living down in San Diego there was a 6 year old named Amy who lived in our apartment complex and would always come up and visit me and my ex-wife - she was fairly neglected and ignored by her parents who I never met. One day when my wife was at work, Amy came up and I let her in and she had some other little kids with her who were a bit more rambunctious. All of a sudden one of the kids says "Amy says she wants to sleep with you! heeheehee" - That was it - I suddenly realized how I was setting myself up for something like what you are talking about. I tossed the kids out and have hated children ever since. Ok, not really that last part, but I could never have Amy over without my wife there and the door open.
It sucks what has happened. It also sucks that they let sexual predators out of prison. >:(
Sorry to hear you and your daughter had to go through that Brad. |
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08/08/2005 04:31:36 AM · #34 |
...sorry to hear about your terrible experience also, bear. Geez! What to do, what to do?
Is the overreaction caused by an alarming increase in pedophilia or an increase in reporting / sensationalizing the extreme cases? |
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08/08/2005 04:42:43 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
Is the overreaction caused by an alarming increase in pedophilia or an increase in reporting / sensationalizing the extreme cases? |
Probably more the latter. |
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08/08/2005 04:44:35 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
...sorry to hear about your terrible experience also, bear. Geez! What to do, what to do?
Is the overreaction caused by an alarming increase in pedophilia or an increase in reporting / sensationalizing the extreme cases? |
IMO the overreaction is caused by an alarming trend of several decades in American society where children have been placed on pedestals and become objects of virtual worship. Nobody seems to question any longer the new "received wisdom" that children need protecting at any cost, even at the cost of the destruction of perfectly viable family units.
There has been molestation of children since the dawn of history, of course. It's perfectly shameful, of course. But even so, we have institutionalized the Child Protective arm of our social services to such an inane degree that even when they KNOW they've got it wrong, they are powerless to undo the damage they have caused.
Back in the mid-80's I had a friend who raised German Shepherd show dogs. She, of course, had a large crate for each dog, and eachnight they went to their individual crates to sleep; they liked it that way, it was a comfortable den for them. Her 9-year-old daughter was "jealous" of the crates, so mom fixed one up for her, as a sort of a playhouse. Every so often the daughter would actually SLEEP in her crate, keeping the dogs company, with her pillow and her dolls and her sleeping bag. (The dogs' crates were in the house, not out in the run)
One day a visitor came to see the dogs, looking to buy one, and noticed the "human" crate. She asked the little girl, out of her mother's presence, if her moither "made her sleep in the crate often?" The child responded, "Oh, I LIKE sleeping with the dogs!" The visitor reported my friend to Child Protective, who arrived unannounced, took pictures of the crate, took the child away with them, and prosecuted the mother, who went to jail. She never got her daughter back.
(shrugs)
Robt.
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08/08/2005 04:46:52 AM · #37 |
| Holy freakin crap! Don't know what else to say. |
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08/08/2005 04:53:29 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Accusasions, at least here in the US are very serious.
In some aspects it's good, as many I'm sure are valid.
Now imagine a scenario, and tell me what's wrong with this:
A 3-year old girl, being raised by her father (along with her 1 1/2 year old brother), is taking a bath. In the process of doing what kids do in the way of innocent self-exploration, gets a piece of soap inside of herself, and needs to be taken to the Doctor. The Doctors have no suspicion, the daughter told him what happened when the Dad was out of the bathroom, a medicine is prescribed with an applicator and should be the end of it - right?
Wrong.
Enter one disgrundled ex-wife, making accusations of chld molestation, and daughter is taken away, put into protective custody. Doctors are interviewed, daughter and father are interviewed, and then it is dismissed and daughter is returned to the Dad, not without memories she can still remember to this day.
Yes, I am the Dad, and was an actual event in my life.
Like I said, accusations can come at a very high cost. |
That is a very sad story Brad. Surely in the US you must have laws to prevent baseless allegations the ex-wife should have been punished in someway. |
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08/08/2005 04:58:43 AM · #39 |
| I can relate. Back in 1990 (UK) my son, then 3 ish, had a febrile convulsion, due to a high temperature caused by measles or Chicken pox. I didn't know it what it was at the time - just that he was convulsing and foaming at the mouth. We called an ambulance. At the hospital four to five doctors examined him - making me think he was dying. After an hour or so they crowded round me and started firing questions at me. Who did I live with?; who took care of him whislt I was at work? Which males did he come into contact on a regular basis? Naively I answered having no idea why they were asking....turns out his bum was a bit sore - which as any mother knows - when a child has a temperature their urine gets stronger and leaves them a little sore in their nappy. Then it dawned on me what they were suggesting. I dismissed it - but they left me with a tiny bit of doubt about my father, my brother etc...It was during the time when the govt became obsessed with satanic child abuse...I'll never forgive them for what they put me, my son and my family through. I'll never forgive myself for that hour of doubt I had about my family. |
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08/08/2005 05:31:46 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Back in the mid-80's I had a friend who raised German Shepherd show dogs. She, of course, had a large crate for each dog, and eachnight they went to their individual crates to sleep; they liked it that way, it was a comfortable den for them. Her 9-year-old daughter was "jealous" of the crates, so mom fixed one up for her, as a sort of a playhouse. Every so often the daughter would actually SLEEP in her crate, keeping the dogs company, with her pillow and her dolls and her sleeping bag. (The dogs' crates were in the house, not out in the run)
One day a visitor came to see the dogs, looking to buy one, and noticed the "human" crate. She asked the little girl, out of her mother's presence, if her moither "made her sleep in the crate often?" The child responded, "Oh, I LIKE sleeping with the dogs!" The visitor reported my friend to Child Protective, who arrived unannounced, took pictures of the crate, took the child away with them, and prosecuted the mother, who went to jail. She never got her daughter back. |
I can understand how this would look like in the eyes of a visitor. Still very sad. Didn't the authorites interview (?) the child? Surely she would have told them, that it was her own idea, and that she was there only to keep company to the dogs.
Message edited by author 2005-08-08 05:32:09. |
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08/08/2005 07:14:42 AM · #41 |
Back in the USSR there was a general consent (at least among the authorities) that it is better to throw ten innocent people in jail than to let one guilty go free. It was the Empire of Evil.
Now the U.S. is taking the same turn.
What can one say? You become what you hate.
I think there was a time in the world, when it was thought better to let ten guilty go free than to put one innocent in jail.
But then ... I may have seen it in a dream.
Message edited by author 2005-08-08 08:01:45. |
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08/08/2005 07:45:50 AM · #42 |
Oh My. They might have thrown us in jail for this shot, taken my kids. It time to get PC folks off our backsides and forget the "Village".  |
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08/08/2005 07:55:26 AM · #43 |
| These actions happen more often than we care to acknowledge...A few years ago a couple near Jacksonville,FL made an off-hand remark to an acquaintance that their "babies" had black eyes...Next thing they knew the cops were beating down their door,arresting them for child abuse,and DCF demanded to see their children and have them evaluated..."But we don't have any children" was their reply.."Yes,you do-we've received reports that you're abusing them!" To make a long story short,they had to appear in court and prove their 'babies' were a pair of RACCOONS..Nevertheless,they are STILL on Florida's list of Abusive Parents.. |
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08/08/2005 08:10:34 AM · #44 |
This is a really sad thread.
Above it all, the real problem is that there is real evil in this world...that's why all these accusations are made, because things like this actually do happen. Blame evil, that's what's doing this to us, seperating us from sanity and 'robbing us of life and light'.
Message edited by author 2005-08-08 08:12:42. |
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08/08/2005 08:14:13 AM · #45 |
| My wife and I live in Japan and we go to the Hot Springs quite often. Most of the places are not coed, but it is not unusual for fathers to bring their young daughters (probably under 5) into the men's side. Moms do the same things with their young sons. I can just imagine what conclusions some people in the States would jump to if a young child said her father took her into a bath with a bunch of naked men. Call DHS!! |
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08/08/2005 08:40:42 AM · #46 |
What's worse, some kids are pulling stupid stunts to get back at teachers these days. Kid does something wrong at school; teacher catches kid and sends kid to detention, suspension, etc; kid starts rumors or tells parents that teacher did something innapropriate with said kid; teacher gets suspended during evaluation, rumors run like wildfire through media and community; kid confesses and recants; teacher's career is RUINED, goes into early retirement, feels brandd for life.
What does the kid get? Most likely a couple hours of community service and a clean record whne they hit the age of majority. Little shit.
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08/08/2005 08:47:18 AM · #47 |
| With the proliferation of camera phones,it's gonna get worse before it gets better...Don't swat your kid on the backside for throwing a temper tantrum in the store parking lot--There may be 30 cell phones pointed in your direction!! |
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08/08/2005 09:20:07 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Originally posted by kpriest:
Just to stir the pot a little - I'm not in favor of sending people to jail because they are Arab or anything, but I believe that just because something was part of one's culture in another country doesn't mean it is acceptable in the US if it violates our laws. The first time, they should get a pass and some re-education, the second time - jail or deportation back to their "culture", IMO. Anyone disagree? |
I also don't agree the private parts of any child should be messed with. The law is the law in the states and everyone should have to follow them even the people from a different country. We would have to if we were in their country. |
Who said anything about the guy fondling the kid's dick? The picture was shot from behind the child so anything that the man was charged with was based on assumption.
Besides, my mom used to wash mine when I was a baby and I don't remember anyone arresting her. |
I think I had this problem before with you not reading it correctly. READ again! And go back and read my other statement. Dang, you will find that I disagree with this guy getting into trouble but I still dont agree with kissing a childs private parts(stated by another post right after my first post). Yeah, bath them, but don't fondle. |
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08/08/2005 09:30:20 AM · #49 |
Stuff like this makes me feel so happy that i live in a part of the world where people can relate to eachother naturally without constant fear of a law suit each step you take. I think you occidental people and especially americans went to far with it. I mean it is good to be protected by laws especially for those who can't protect themselves such as kids, but there should be a limit to it. In my opinion you guys are sooo far beyound that limit that to me it seems you guys have no feedom at all to do anything anymore. No wonder you guys are so easily offended by anything when you no longer can relate to eachother without a judge in any way. I bet someone will be offended by this post also :)
edit: Ironicaly you guys last time I checked are in top criminality rates so something must go really wrong there. Just my outside view on this.
Message edited by author 2005-08-08 09:36:27. |
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08/08/2005 09:33:31 AM · #50 |
| We Americans wouldn't be so paranoid if we didn't have so many Liberal judges making laws, instead of interpretating the Constitution like their supposed to. This will pass soon, some of us hope. |
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