| Author | Thread |
|
|
08/04/2005 11:08:19 PM · #26 |
UGH! My camera did NOT want to cooperate! The darn thing has no manual settings so I had to trick it into the right speed.
edit: sorry I had to delete the pics. I needed the space in my portfolio :-/
Message edited by author 2005-08-19 02:26:22.
|
|
|
|
08/04/2005 11:51:53 PM · #27 |
Because of work constraints, I haven't had time for this yet. It will be this weekend before I have a chance to get to this. My lights, tripod, etc are all at the shop, and I just don't have the energy to go over their this late in the evening.
Continue along and I'll follow along.
|
|
|
|
08/05/2005 01:19:39 AM · #28 |
While we wait for the others let us make some observations about this experiment. We are not using a timer so results will vary. For example sfalice held the card too long and did not allow the area where the white is to burn in her features. Notice how the white is totally in the 9th zone. She has corrected this. annah overcame some camera features but she did good.
Your efforts are good and notice that those where the features appear, faint as they are, vary between the 8 and 8 1/2 zones. This is important but let me start at the top.
The main lesson here is that whites obliterate information and black allows it to come through. This is why when you do any type of double exposure you must examine the background and the subject. Wherever there is black the subject will show in all its glory. Where there is white you will have to fight to get a faint image. Sometimes, all you want is just a hint. This means that you must think how you will divide the time. It is usually a mistake to divide it 50 - 50. The subject needs more attention or more time. Of course, there are many ways to achieve your end. Sometimes with subdued ambient light (you have ready a light with switch 'neath your thumb) you can begin the exposure. in this case you have the lens closed down and say your time reads 4 seconds. Expose for 2 and run into position or have subject do it and by this time you only have a half a second left, you put the switch on. Although you gave the subject less time, the intensity of the light produces a good effect. We will cover this more as we move. Then there is the consideration of the planned shot: you pick the clothing to yield the effect you want.
I am interested in how you light the subject. To get the feel for competent lighting it is best to work with a single light at the very start. Yes, I know many of us refuse to crawl as we stumble into our walk. Consider: lighting is learned easily and it quickly becomes part of you. There are also advantages to working with one light, an image with good midtones and rich shadows are not only attractive and dramatic but they are ideal for many double exposures because of the dark shadows. So let's expand on lighting technique.
Let us start with the single light. It is very strong but the responsibility is all on you. I am talking lighting not from the direction of the lens but that approaching from left or right center.
At the start aim the light a little above the head. Now is where your problems begin. You must be on the lookout for the elongation of the shadows. You learn this quicker by practicing in the dark. Your image will be beset with zone 1 and as you know this zone black. So be careful when the shadows cross the nose and what havoc they will play on the cheeks. If you have the light higher than usual you must observe the nose shadow as it blends with the lips. Notice how the upper lips are already in zone 1. Ah you say, not so, my eyes tell me it is brighter. You are right but the camera is going to see it in the 1st. Now when the nose shadows runs into the upper lip you create a problem known as ambiguity. That is viewers will have to decipher the ending of one shadow and the start of another. This will simply caution you to follow the shadows and tweak the lights or move the subject in little increments to get the effect you want. When doing any kind of portrait you pose the subject and adjust lights and shoot. Then you leave lights as they are but you change viewing angle by a small increments, shooting away and then going to the other side. You will be amazed at how a couple of inches may compliment your subject. If you do not have a subject handy you can do this in the mirror. This way, when you are faced with single light shot you can do it instantly. You already know the approximate light position and you know how shadows must be watched.
What happens if you want to shoot a whole body? Well all you need do is find something to hook up your three lights and place them as together as possible and you are off. Again, watch all shadows as they are more treacherous with the whole body. examine the viewfinder and look for formations of ambiguity. Make sure fingers do not get chopped off or part of an arm or foot. Remember, only in the viewfinder will this info be available. The image must make solid sense because you do not want that 1 zone to overstep its boundaries. Also very important keep a distance from any walls.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Now here is an image I promised you which we will use in conjunction with yours to advance our study. Look at carefully and try to guess how it was done and post your thoughts on the technique.
Message edited by author 2005-08-05 01:29:41. |
|
|
|
08/05/2005 02:54:34 AM · #29 |
Ok, better late than never =)
Think I goofed up with the 1:4 exposure. I must have held the mask for just 3/4th of a second.
 |
|
|
|
08/05/2005 06:28:02 AM · #30 |
Dan
It looks almost like you pasted some white puzzle pieces onto a piece of glass or something and held it up in front of you. I am in two minds if this is right because first I can see what looks like little bits of reflection in some places near the bottom half and secondly think it cant be that easy LOL?
Message edited by author 2005-08-05 06:31:32.
|
|
|
|
08/05/2005 06:36:48 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by loriprophoto:
Dan
It looks almost like you pasted some white puzzle pieces onto a piece of glass or something and held it up in front of you. I am in two minds if this is right because first I can see what looks like little bits of reflection in some places near the bottom half and secondly think it cant be that easy LOL? |
Lori... I think you have got it right and I'll go with your answer but knowing Dan he will probably have a surprise install for us. |
|
|
|
08/05/2005 06:39:17 AM · #32 |
LOL yeah he probably will. Hey I have just been looking at all our "mug shots" .. boy I hope we dont scare anyone away who might want to follow this thread ... we all look so serious!! LOL Sorry OT
|
|
|
|
08/05/2005 07:43:36 AM · #33 |
sorry sorry sorry to be so late....
[thumb]214057[/thumb]
Bad image really. Didn't pay too much attention to focus and all...
was just trying to figure the light thing.
Did I? is it any good?
By the way, I have pretty much the most stupid technical question now:
how do I pre-focus my cam to shoot myself in a dark room?
I tried that a few times and the focus wouldn't be on me.
Is there any trick here other then placing some other object where I'm suppose to be standing?
In my older cam it was easier cause I just flipped the screen over so that the lens and the screen would turn to the same side and I could actually see myself. But I can no longer do that.
And now if you will excuse me, I can't read long posts on line so I need to print this page out and go do my reading :-)
|
|
|
|
08/05/2005 07:58:20 AM · #34 |
That puzzel photo - I also see what looks like reflections on the bottom part of the image.
What I don't understand is, if those pieces of the puzzel were glued to some glass, how did they turn out white and not black?
They are so bright white they look like they were over exposed.
Of course, they could have been black and then photoshop inverted ;-) |
|
|
|
08/05/2005 08:22:05 AM · #35 |
Sorry for posting (I'm lurking in the background ;-)
Puzzle could be a black and white image of the puzzle checker-board held in front of the face, then removed half way through exposure.
The white checkers will reflect white, whilst the black checkers will not reflect light and therefore you will see the face in these areas.
Again appologies for posting whilst not an official member of the group.
|
|
|
|
08/05/2005 08:57:45 AM · #36 |
Falc ... I think you are on the money here. Makes more sense than my theory, specially as we are working with black and white masks to get the effect we are wanting.
Edit: What I cant fathom out is what lighting ratio you used to get the white puzzle pieces at Zone 9 (no detail at all). Looking at our tests even the 1:4 ratio had a bit of detail in the whites. Did you use a single light?
Message edited by author 2005-08-05 09:30:44.
|
|
|
|
08/05/2005 11:49:25 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by loriprophoto:
Falc ... I think you are on the money here. Makes more sense than my theory, specially as we are working with black and white masks to get the effect we are wanting.
Edit: What I cant fathom out is what lighting ratio you used to get the white puzzle pieces at Zone 9 (no detail at all). Looking at our tests even the 1:4 ratio had a bit of detail in the whites. Did you use a single light? |
That's what I'm thinking, too. Single light. Maybe a black glove holding the puzzle grid and that explains the missing piece? We are probably waaaaay off on our theory. Can't figure out the blotchy areas at the bottom, though. (This is fun! I just wish I had more time to devote to experimenting.)
There's a slight shadow under the cap...
Message edited by author 2005-08-05 11:52:33. |
|
|
|
08/05/2005 11:57:37 AM · #38 |
Okay it gets dangerous to get me theorising, but my theory on what I first thought were flare spots is that Dan didnt use the black marker quite as well to color in the black puzzle pieces as he would have liked and had a few patches here and there where the white was still shining through the black LOL
|
|
|
|
08/05/2005 12:37:43 PM · #39 |
This image was going to be used in a challenge. The final image was going to have a missing part of the puzzle falling into position. As you note the artwork is only a sketch. I had three hours Sunday night to finish up and after I redid the art work the glass the ground hit the ground with such precision that glass flew all the place. There are critics that watch over us. lol
We will wait for a few more entries before our official discussion, but here I will explain how this image is achieved. You were close but then you must look at the image and notice I am against a black background.
It is a double exposure and done with this 1-9 zone thing in mind. I paint the puzzle pieces with black acrylic. We already know that whatever is black is available to receive more info, since the sensor remains sensitive. The next task is to bring the clear glass parts into the 9th zone. I call this blowing out the clear into the 9th.
Procedure: you place glass on support and you leave a marking where you will place your head. You then use a backlight at an angle that is not direct with the lens. Low and aiming at the glass. You fire the light source. This has the effect of blowing the clear and leaving the black parts unexposed. You quickly position yourself and get glass out of the way and fire the front light. While we wait for the others compare this effect with the experiment you did. It is only a variation based on the same principle except that we are using pure direct light without it being reflected from a s subject or substance to create the 9th zone
Message edited by author 2005-08-05 12:43:25. |
|
|
|
08/05/2005 12:58:46 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Jinjit:
sorry sorry sorry to be so late....
[thumb]214057[/thumb]
Bad image really. Didn't pay too much attention to focus and all...
was just trying to figure the light thing.
Did I? is it any good?
By the way, I have pretty much the most stupid technical question now:
how do I pre-focus my cam to shoot myself in a dark room?
I tried that a few times and the focus wouldn't be on me.
Is there any trick here other then placing some other object where I'm suppose to be standing?
In my older cam it was easier cause I just flipped the screen over so that the lens and the screen would turn to the same side and I could actually see myself. But I can no longer do that.
And now if you will excuse me, I can't read long posts on line so I need to print this page out and go do my reading :-) |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can place a box or any object as a placeholder for focusing. Then you get behind the camera and use either a switch light or a flashlight to aim at the object half press until focus is achieved and then press all the way for the timer to start. Put out flashlight or put light switch off. meanwhile position yourself. Lol, times goes pretty fast.
Message edited by author 2005-08-05 13:02:02. |
|
|
|
08/05/2005 01:10:40 PM · #41 |
LOL okay we knew you had some trick up your sleeve, thanks for the explanation. Can I ask how you ascertain length of exposure etc? I only have a flash meter at the moment, nothing to measure ambient light with so I would have to guess these settings so a guide would be helpful. You obviously had a certain length of time that each light was on for so I assume that you used bulb to keep the shutter open until you had exposed the second part of the shot. I realise that these lengths of time would vary according to the strength of light that each person uses but it would be helpful to get an idea.
Sorry for so many questions.
|
|
|
|
08/05/2005 01:41:05 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by loriprophoto:
LOL okay we knew you had some trick up your sleeve, thanks for the explanation. Can I ask how you ascertain length of exposure etc? I only have a flash meter at the moment, nothing to measure ambient light with so I would have to guess these settings so a guide would be helpful. You obviously had a certain length of time that each light was on for so I assume that you used bulb to keep the shutter open until you had exposed the second part of the shot. I realise that these lengths of time would vary according to the strength of light that each person uses but it would be helpful to get an idea.
Sorry for so many questions. |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No problem. In the old film days this was a real problem because you had a serious downtime between shooting and seeing results.
For this image I used strobes. Since I am blowing out the clear part of the glass, this back light exposure is not critical. I had already computed with meter what the front lights require in the aperture.
Now, your camera has a meter that measures reflected light. This gives you a good indication. Personally, I can not function without a light meter. When I place certain light set ups I already know from experience but once I enter extensive light placement I need to run to the meter. When doing these double exposures it is best to shoot the main subject alone and check the image in your computer, unless you can reference a histrogram in your camera. The other way to do this is to shoot a series of images and compare the images on your camera's lcd to the computer. With some practice you can tell what is near the ball park. Yet all of these variables change with different ambient lighting.
A starting formula is that the subject gets the lion's share of the time or at least 2/3. 50-50 leaves the main subject too transparant.
A direct answer to your question is that there are no guide lines because there are too many variables unless you work with fixed values. This brings on the eventual need for a meter that can read reflected and incident light. One with a spot meter is a good luxury but not required for 98% of your images. |
|
|
|
08/05/2005 02:17:49 PM · #43 |
[thumb]214171[/thumb]
:-) |
|
|
|
08/05/2005 08:50:10 PM · #44 |
Sorry to be late Dan
[thumb]214259[/thumb] 1:4
[thumb]214260[/thumb] 1:9
Brought my wife in for this exercise
Message edited by author 2005-08-05 20:51:22.
|
|
|
|
08/05/2005 09:16:13 PM · #45 |
I am going to be away until Sunday night, so if I miss anything will catch up on Monday.
Have a great weekend everyone.
|
|
|
|
08/05/2005 09:24:07 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by loriprophoto:
I am going to be away until Sunday night, so if I miss anything will catch up on Monday.
Have a great weekend everyone. |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Take care and bring back some more equine images. They are great. |
|
|
|
08/05/2005 11:46:47 PM · #47 |
Tried this using my strobes. You can only hold so many things in your hand at one time. Also never made it to the store for posterboard, so a paper plate had to do. =)
|
|
|
|
08/06/2005 01:44:46 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by cbeller:
Tried this using my strobes. You can only hold so many things in your hand at one time. Also never made it to the store for posterboard, so a paper plate had to do. =)
 |
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hey you did very good. Very resourceful. |
|
|
|
08/06/2005 10:18:49 PM · #49 |
Find the pope in the pizza. lol
One way to study these images is to pretend that the white and black mask represent the different tones in a background that you plan to use for a double exposure. Of course, the black and white is highly simplified but all the same you can get a pretty good idea of how the subject will interract with the background. It is obvious that if you control the time you are able to eat into the whites of the image. Only one of these images is the white solely in the 9th zone. This means that the exposure went too long on the mask. Notice how the others fluctuate from zone 7-8. This reminds you that the lions share of the time must be given to the main subject.
We will wait until Monday night for additional images. If they are not forthcoming we will proceed.
[thumb]214667[/thumb]
Message edited by author 2005-08-06 22:27:05. |
|
|
|
08/07/2005 04:59:58 AM · #50 |
[thumb]214760[/thumb]
Such serious concentration in the first shot, trying to figure it all out and I hate being infront of the camera!! By the last I'd relaxed a bit ......and there were many many takes in between, the dog got in the act bringing her strange mother toys since she was so obviously playing silly games!
Still not sure I got it right with the lights Dan.
|
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 06/10/2025 07:54:43 AM EDT.
