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07/21/2005 11:06:39 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Bullshit. Most animals are not inherently lazy. In the wild these animals have lived for milleniums without the help of our cages. Yes some die at an early age, that is part of the natural process, but most live out there lives the way they were supossed to. Sucks for people? I'd rather be dropped in a jungle to fend for myself and take my chances then spend the rest of my life in Gitmo or Attica where I would have my "needs are taken care of".
I work relocating wild animals. You can see the difference in thier eyes between when they are caged and when they are free. |
Yes, and people have lived for years without prisons. So what? There is no relevence there. And the conditions in most zoos, at least the ones I'm familiar with, have no resemblence to Attica or Gitmo.
Wild animals are glad to be released because of fear. They have never been captive and their fight or flight instinct takes over when they are trapped. Birth and raise an animal in captivity and it will NOT survive out in the wild. Plain and simple. Just as most humans in the US today would not survive in the wild. They lose the fear of predators they've never known.
Comparing captive bred zoo animals to wild captured animals is comparing apples to oranges.
Also, if you have ever nurtured a wild animal from birth, you will know that, when trying to set them free, they always want to come back and stay. Same as the birds who settle in my yard year after year. There is safety and available food.
Dropped in a jungle I give 3 days, 5 days max. The stuff out there will kill you if you don't know what you're doing, what to be afraid of.
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07/21/2005 11:41:20 PM · #52 |
I'm really sorry if I am coming off as arrogant here, it is certainly not my intention. This is just a topic I care a lot for. Don’t want to argue, just want to raise awareness.
1. Dahkota
Not to throw fuel on the fire, but those animals do it because the have to.
It is called Natural selection, nature’s law for the survival of the fittest, to keep the world from overpopulatingâ€Â¦
If they had a choice, they wouldn't. Hate to say it, but just like people, animals are inherently lazy. And no, I'm not anthropomorphizing.
Yes if some people have the choice of sitting in a cage for the rest of their lives or run for it risking getting shot, some would stay, others would run. Personally I would run, but I can of course not speak for the animals hereâ€Â¦
When something - animal or human - is well fed and watered, their survival needs are taken care of. They can then spend their time, sleeping, grooming, and hunting for a mate. If they have to spend all their time going 25 miles here and there for food, they don't have time for the rest and eventually weaken from disease or fatigue, not to mention starvation and dehydration, and die.
Againâ€Â¦ Natural selection. You may not like it, but it is nature’s law. I certainly hope that this is not an argument for future generations; with this thinking we certainly should put all the wild animals in the zoos. Yes?
You all are over thinking this. You're romanticizing 'freedom.' Lets see how long you wish to remain 'free' when you have no clue where you are going to get your next meal. Or if you will live to get even think about a next meal. Been there done that. Sucks for people, sucks for animals.
I have been there, and I would not want to change a thing, it taught me some of the most important lessons in my life. Againâ€Â¦ Animals are not the same as humans; you cannot compare them to humans in this regard.Some people seem to be happy when everything is given to them, others are not; some people prefer to work their own way up, I believe that some of the greatest gifts are given to us through hardships.
2. Louddog
Also, are the anti-zoo people also anti-pet?
I cannot speak for the other “anti-zoo people” I am not even anti zoo, I just think that most animals in the zoo needs a lot more space and privacy. But the Dog-cat argument is absurd, because the domestication of the dog occurred some 14,000 years ago, some evidence even suggest 100.000 yrs ago, while most zoological gardens has not been around for more than 100yrs.
After all, dogs and cats are nothing more then wild animals inbreed and domesticated for our own selfish purposes.
This argument is most likely not true according to most researchers today, it is believed that stone age people would probably not have raised young wolf pups as pets, because raising wolf pups is extremely difficult. (Not going into detail on this topic here)
The dog was most likely the result of natural selection. A "niche" opened up for these animals when some humans developed the permanent settlements instead of living as nomads. Scavengers were drawn to these places where they could find scraps of food bits left around. Dogs "self-domesticated" when they started scavenging waste from human settlements and these dogs were eventually used as hunting companions and guardians.
In many parts of the world today there are still dogs living like this.
Yes, there is the selective breeding we humans did for selfish purposes later on which corresponds to a fragment of the history of the domestication of the dog, I am not a fan of that either.
3. Legalbeagle
I am pretty sure that zoos are not bad for some animals - just feel particularly bad for the animals with higher intellectual capacity - I should imagine that they become mentally unstable more easily.
So how do we measure higher intellectual capacity? I believe that a lot of zebra’s are more intelligent than human beings. Why not measure the intellectual capacity of the animals, and only keep the “stupid” ones. But I should be careful here, because I might not make it.
Again.. I am not anti zoo.. I just wish the world was such that we didn't need them
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07/21/2005 11:53:38 PM · #53 |
Cool, in 14,000 years I guess zoos will be okay too then.
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07/22/2005 02:58:26 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by Sonda:
Originally posted by moodville:
Then come back here and tell me those animals are living happy lives. In most cases these animals were bred in captivity and so this is the only world they have known. |
I do not measure what is worse.
Yes, it is the only world they have known.. but their bodies were made to roam over huge areas.. I do not suggest to release them.. I do not have the solution.. |
The human body was made to run (according to some of the latest theories). But how many kids do you see that are happy to spend thier lives watching TV and playing video games in a room smaller than an animal's cage?
I don't know how to tell if the animal is happier in a place where they are protected from predators and fed regulary, and they don't have to do a lot of work. I do know some people who have that as thier goal in life. |
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