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07/11/2005 06:36:14 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but everything I've read and been told confirms that holding your breath actually creates shake. I believe the most stable method is to shoot while slowly exhaling.
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The breathing/holding your breath is ok but by no means the best method. If using this method, I would reccommend exhaling completely but dont breath in. Dont stop the natural breathing process for any longer than three seconds otherwise you really will develop the shakes, subtle as they might be.
I really like that bean bag idea. I'll be adding that to my kit.
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07/11/2005 07:28:29 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Lean against something and make your own body into a tripod, with elbows pressed into your sides. Use the 3-second delay self timer to stabilize the camera on static shots; press, compose yourself, and wait for the exposure to happen. Carry a beanbag to you can rest the camera/lens on a solid object.
Robt.
LOL mucky, great minds etc... |
Along with what bear has pointed out I use the BRASS method we used for shooting (Rifles) in the Marines.
Breath (out)
Relax
Aim
Squeeze
Shoot
Follow Through is really important too...don't jerk the camera away once you hear the shutter release...wait a sec.
Andy
ED: Typo
Message edited by author 2005-07-11 19:37:55.
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07/11/2005 07:39:31 PM · #28 |
Maybe I should start a different thread for this, but I don't get the Mirror Lock Up deal. The manual for the 20D is sort of vague on this = press, hold, press again...
What is the purpose?
If the mirror causes shake in the camera, why did they design it that way? Seems to me if you have to press and then press again you cause more shake and in certain conditions press, press again and hold until pic is snapped - sounds like mroe shake.
Does it really give you that much advantage in a shot or do people just like to say they use it cause they can?
It sounds like a real pain to use, why bother? Have to set it and then unset it every time (find the availability of functions on this camera way more complicated/confusing/time consuming than necessary).
IT also sounds like with MLU you can do more unintentional damage to your camera too easily.
The examples they give in the manual on when to use it don't make sense to me. Seems to me in those examples a tripod with a remote switch or timer would be easier, safer, better to use. So what is the advantage? Really.
Also - outside the manual, which I already said seems very vague on this function, I cannot find anywhere good info on this that is 20D specific.
Message edited by author 2005-07-11 19:41:11. |
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07/11/2005 07:46:50 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Maybe I should start a different thread for this, but I don't get the Mirror Lock Up deal. The manual for the 20D is sort of vague on this = press, hold, press again...
What is the purpose?
If the mirror causes shake in the camera, why did they design it that way? Seems to me if you have to press and then press again you cause more shake and in certain conditions press, press again and hold until pic is snapped - sounds like mroe shake.
Does it really give you that much advantage in a shot or do people just like to say they use it cause they can?
It sounds like a real pain to use, why bother? Have to set it and then unset it every time (find the availability of functions on this camera way more complicated/confusing/time consuming than necessary).
IT also sounds like with MLU you can do more unintentional damage to your camera too easily.
The examples they give in the manual on when to use it don't make sense to me. Seems to me in those examples a tripod with a remote switch or timer would be easier, safer, better to use. So what is the advantage? Really.
Also - outside the manual, which I already said seems very vague on this function, I cannot find anywhere good info on this that is 20D specific. |
In very long lenses >300mm or so, the "mirror slap" can cause vibrations that blur the image slightly. If you use the mirror lockup, the mirror doesn't slap during the shot, but before it. You can use it with a 2 second timer for not too delayed results.
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07/11/2005 07:52:42 PM · #30 |
| Still don't get it. So what? If it causes slap to me that is a design flaw and not something you should have to worry about. I still don't get the use. If you are on a tripod, it will still 'slap'? And what is it slapping? And why do I want to use it if I have to hold the shutter button continuously as the manual says I do. Seems to me that would be worse. And if I am using bulb plus timer then have to hold it the whole time - what if I don't hear the shutter and let go cause I think the shot has been taken. Then the shot is trashed? Just doesn't make sense to me and seems a tripod and remote switch would be more effective. |
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07/11/2005 07:56:44 PM · #31 |
Another solution to avoiding mirror vibration induced blur with long exposures is to set the camera on B (or a suitably long exposure). Holding a black card over the lens, trip the shutter, wait a second or two, remove card for the desired exposure time, replace card, close shutter. The mirror slap induced vibrations dissipate very quickly, in fact, for really long exposures, mirror lockup makes no difference. It's only when a significant portion of the exposure is during the vibration that they will cause blur.
The effect is similar to the pictures of busy areas taken with very long exposures where it looks like no one is there, even though there my have been lots of people there when the shutter was pressed.
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07/11/2005 07:57:01 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Still don't get it. So what? If it causes slap to me that is a design flaw and not something you should have to worry about. I still don't get the use. If you are on a tripod, it will still 'slap'? And what is it slapping? And why do I want to use it if I have to hold the shutter button continuously as the manual says I do. Seems to me that would be worse. And if I am using bulb plus timer then have to hold it the whole time - what if I don't hear the shutter and let go cause I think the shot has been taken. Then the shot is trashed? Just doesn't make sense to me and seems a tripod and remote switch would be more effective. |
the thing is... that in an slr, there is a mirror so you can see through the lens. If you don't have the mirror move FAST before the shot is taken, you get long shutter lag. Because it has to move so fast, it has momentum... they have not found a cure for it yet. Maybe it is a design flaw, but if you can solve it, you should tell them how. Even on a tripod, a 500+mm lens can move significantly with the mirror slap. This includes the most solid, well built, tripods available. I don't think you're undestanding something correctly... you push the shutter once to lock the mirror, and then again to take the shot. In bulb mode, which I don't know why you would be using this without a remote... you would have to hold it the whole time anyway. I don't see the problem.
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07/11/2005 08:07:33 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
If it causes slap to me that is a design flaw and not something you should have to worry about. I still don't get the use. If you are on a tripod, it will still 'slap'? And what is it slapping? |
It's inherent in the design of an SLR camera, the mirror has to move out of the way to let the light hit the sensor. Anytime you move something and stop it, it will vibrate, especially if it's done quickly. It needs to be done quickly to avoid blacking out the finder for any longer than necessary or causing shutter delay like in non-slr digi-cams. The Nikon D70 does not need a mirror lockup according to Nikon because supposedly the mechanism is sufficiently damped to reduce mirror slap enough that it's not needed.
Canon made an SLR with a stationary mirror back in the 70's, I think. It used a partilly silvered mirror that allowed some of the light to pass through to the film and reflected some into the finder. It was not very popular because the finder image was dark and since the mirror only passed part of the light, the amount of light hitting the sensor was reduced, necessitating longer exposure times and/or wider apertures.
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07/11/2005 08:14:20 PM · #34 |
Put your camera strap on the floor and step on it. Pull your camera taut and you have an instant tripod.
Put your camera around your neck with the strap on. Pull forward and instant tripod.
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07/11/2005 08:14:34 PM · #35 |
Perhaps I am not understanding something properly. Straight from the manual:
If you use self timer and mirror lockup, the shot will be taken 2 sec. after the mirror goes up. > So I would assume that in this scenario I would have to have the camera on a tripod or at least not in my hands since it waits two seconds before the shot is taken. If I am using a tripod, why do I need MLU? Just because I have a longer lens?
In very bright light such as the beach or ski ground on a sunny day take the picture promptly after mirro lockup. >I assume this is due to the fact that the very next sentence says that you should keep the lens out of the sun when using MLU since the sun will damage the camera. Why would I want to do something like that if it can damage the camera?
The mirror locks up and after 30 seconds it will go back down. >This seems contradictory to the previous sentence where it says "press the shutter , the picture is taken and the mirro goes back down." >If it stays up and I inadvertently let the sun hit the lens I just damaged the camera according to the manual. So which is it? Does it stay up 30 secs. or go back down after the shot?
Edit: So if I ahve no lenses longer than 300 I don't have to worry about it? Or is there an advantage in other uses the manual does not tell about?
Message edited by author 2005-07-11 20:15:28. |
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07/11/2005 08:27:52 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Perhaps I am not understanding something properly. Straight from the manual:
If you use self timer and mirror lockup, the shot will be taken 2 sec. after the mirror goes up. > So I would assume that in this scenario I would have to have the camera on a tripod or at least not in my hands since it waits two seconds before the shot is taken. If I am using a tripod, why do I need MLU? Just because I have a longer lens? |
You could use the self timer with the camera in your hands. Camera vibration will occur whether on a tripod or not. MLU serves to get that last bit of sharpness from your scene.
Originally posted by Alienyst:
In very bright light such as the beach or ski ground on a sunny day take the picture promptly after mirro lockup. >I assume this is due to the fact that the very next sentence says that you should keep the lens out of the sun when using MLU since the sun will damage the camera. Why would I want to do something like that if it can damage the camera? |
You just need to do it promptly, as the instructions state. Again, the benefit is greater sharpness.
Originally posted by Alienyst:
The mirror locks up and after 30 seconds it will go back down. >This seems contradictory to the previous sentence where it says "press the shutter , the picture is taken and the mirro goes back down." >If it stays up and I inadvertently let the sun hit the lens I just damaged the camera according to the manual. So which is it? Does it stay up 30 secs. or go back down after the shot?
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Both. If you don't shoot within 30 seconds, the mirror will go back down. Before 30 seconds, it goes down immediately after the shutter closes.
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Edit: So if I ahve no lenses longer than 300 I don't have to worry about it? Or is there an advantage in other uses the manual does not tell about? |
It's all about sharpness. Use MLU when you want the sharpest possible image, regardless of lens used, especially at relatively slow shutter speeds. |
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07/11/2005 08:41:19 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by awpollard:
I use the BRASS method we used for shooting (Rifles) in the Marines.
Breath (out)
Relax
Aim
Squeeze
Shoot
Follow Through is really important too...don't jerk the camera away once you hear the shutter release...wait a sec.
Andy
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I wasn't going to mention it but the method I described is from the B.R.A.S.S. method & I should of mentioned follow through too. Most important.
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07/11/2005 08:46:51 PM · #38 |
Ok..thanks to all for the responses so far...I understand a lot mroe now. However, I have one more question...macro shots using MLU. A lot of macro shots I take are of stuff that does not necessarily sit still. If you lock the mirro up you cannot see to focus. So once you press the shutter release once, you have to press it again. But in the mean time (the 30 sec.) you cannot see to focus. Seems to me you would lose a lot of shots this way. So then for macro this would only be good in a stationary shot? as in subject is not moving.
Message edited by author 2005-07-11 20:47:13. |
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07/11/2005 08:49:57 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Ok..thanks to all for the responses so far...I understand a lot mroe now. However, I have one more question...macro shots using MLU. A lot of macro shots I take are of stuff that does not necessarily sit still. If you lock the mirro up you cannot see to focus. So once you press the shutter release once, you have to press it again. But in the mean time (the 30 sec.) you cannot see to focus. Seems to me you would lose a lot of shots this way. So then for macro this would only be good in a stationary shot? as in subject is not moving. |
Yeah you don't wanna use it for moving shots for that very reason. The 30 seconds is not the time it takes, you can do it in half a second if you press the shutter again that fast. I'm wondering if on the 1D however you can use the personal setting to fire automatically when the shot is in focus for this type of shooting... Still doesn't seem practical.
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07/11/2005 08:51:32 PM · #40 |
Now I'm confused. I thought this was all automatic.
1) Enable mirror lockup
2) Focus and press shutter
3) Camera locks up mirror, waits a second or two then opens the shutter
If this isn't the case then .....
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07/11/2005 08:54:12 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Now I'm confused. I thought this was all automatic.
1) Enable mirror lockup
2) Focus and press shutter
3) Camera locks up mirror, waits a second or two then opens the shutter
If this isn't the case then ..... |
on my camera I know for a fact that you have to push the shutter twice for the shot to be taken. (unless you have it set in a timer mode)
Message edited by author 2005-07-11 20:55:35.
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07/11/2005 09:35:19 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Now I'm confused. I thought this was all automatic.
1) Enable mirror lockup
2) Focus and press shutter
3) Camera locks up mirror, waits a second or two then opens the shutter
If this isn't the case then ..... |
Ha! Look at me responding to this question...as I understand it the 2 sec delay is only when self timer is enabled. On the 20D, the first shutter press locks the mirror up then the second takes the shot. No delay without the self timer. However, once you lock the mirror up, you have 30 seconds to press the shutter to take the shot or the mirror drops back down - as long as self time is NOT enabled. It is in this time - after the first press - that you cannot focus anymore since you cannot see through the lens.
See what good teachers we have here? I could never have answered this two hours ago. Did I answer correctly? I think so...
Message edited by author 2005-07-11 21:36:59. |
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07/11/2005 09:38:12 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Now I'm confused. I thought this was all automatic.
1) Enable mirror lockup
2) Focus and press shutter
3) Camera locks up mirror, waits a second or two then opens the shutter
If this isn't the case then ..... |
Ha! Look at me responding to this question...as I understand it the 2 sec delay is only when self timer is enabled. On the 20D, the first shutter press locks the mirror up then the second takes the shot. No delay without the self timer. However, once you lock the mirror up, you have 30 seconds to press the shutter to take the shot or the mirror drops back down - as long as self time is NOT enabled. It is in this time - after the first press - that you cannot focus anymore since you cannot see through the lens.
See what good teachers we have here? I could never have answered this two hours ago. Did I answer correctly? I think so... |
Yes you did. I had to dig out my 10D manual to confirm it works the same for my camera.
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07/11/2005 09:38:25 PM · #44 |
| And I will say it again - Thank you to all who responded. I gained a lot of understanding in a short time with the few questions I asked and the great responses I got. Thanks! |
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07/11/2005 09:57:07 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Yes you did. I had to dig out my 10D manual to confirm it works the same for my camera. |
I don't know why but it makes me feel good to have done that. I think it is time for nice, cool drink. |
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07/11/2005 10:12:26 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Yes you did. I had to dig out my 10D manual to confirm it works the same for my camera. |
I don't know why but it makes me feel good to have done that. I think it is time for nice, cool drink. |
The joy (and reward) of research...
R.
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