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07/11/2005 07:50:52 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Gil P:
I have to wonder about all this speculation and what purpouse it serves... if someone is waiting to buy the --next big thing-- then that person will never buy anything... as for features...well there will always be beter and improved ones. It seems to me that Camera technocracy as replaced computer technocracy.
as for eye control...well I can't see that being ever introduced to a pro or semi pro body. |
If you think there's speculation HERE, you should see DPReview. Yeesh, what's been posted over there would fill a book!
Camera "technocracy" is definitely in a race with computer technocracy, and I think has pulled ahead. Folks tend to replace the 'pooter on a three-year cycle, which has gotten a little longer lately, whereas the digicam replacement cycle is two years, less for some folks.
I'm looking for an upgrade myself (after two years, LOL), and waiting to see if the much-speculated "tweener" comes to pass. I personally believe there is market space for this, and in the film world, there were bodies between the 1-series and the consumer bodies. I wouldn't put it past Canon to put eye control in a semi-pro body, but I wouldn't hold out for it either.
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07/11/2005 07:59:45 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by yido:
ditto on the ergonomics.
Few days ago, I held the Nikon 2DX, man does that thing feel nice. Much nicer in hand than the D1 Mark II.
Shame on Canon... |
Why are you putting letters before numbers? Its the D2X, not the 2DX, and its the 1D Mark II, not the D1 Mark II
Nikons: D100, D70, D50, D1X, D2X, D2H,
Canon: D30, D60, 10D, 20D, 300D, 350DXT, 1D Mark II, 1Ds, 1Ds Mark II.
Sorry it was getting on my nerves.
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07/11/2005 08:02:27 PM · #28 |
I ceratinly agree that Canon will be un-relentless in its assault on the Digicam market and that their intent on "terminating" any hope for Nikon to find a niche will have them put out a new body sooner than we'd expect... BUT the market penetration of the 20d was certainly not as strong as when the introduced the 10d, same with the 350 vs the 300...which is an obvious indicator that some saturation is occuring... (taken from fotokina markerwatch)...this leads me to believe that Canon may turn to acciliary products to ustain growth, marketing toys to the owners of their dSLRs.
as for eye activated focus... well, let's just say that I won't be running to the store to get that. |
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07/11/2005 08:03:40 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by jmlelii:
Originally posted by yido:
ditto on the ergonomics.
Few days ago, I held the Nikon 2DX, man does that thing feel nice. Much nicer in hand than the D1 Mark II.
Shame on Canon... |
Why are you putting letters before numbers? Its the D2X, not the 2DX, and its the 1D Mark II, not the D1 Mark II
Nikons: D100, D70, D50, D1X, D2X, D2H,
Canon: D30, D60, 10D, 20D, 300D, 350DXT, 1D Mark II, 1Ds, 1Ds Mark II.
Sorry it was getting on my nerves. |
the reason you are seeing 1D in the canon range it is because they are the flagship line EOS-1 (so EOS1, DsMkII) |
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07/11/2005 08:16:00 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
eye control? How do you mean? |
Eye control is a Canon system where the camera focuses on the focusing screen that you are actually looking at. In practice, the camera focuses on what you are actually looking at in the frame. You can actually change the focus by moving your eye.
I believe its actually a civilian adaptation of military technology that aims the gun in apache attack helicopters on to what the gunner looks at. It reads the postion of your iris and calculates what focusing area you are looking toward. |
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07/11/2005 09:04:23 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
eye control? How do you mean? |
Eye control is a Canon system where the camera focuses on the focusing screen that you are actually looking at. In practice, the camera focuses on what you are actually looking at in the frame. You can actually change the focus by moving your eye.
I believe its actually a civilian adaptation of military technology that aims the gun in apache attack helicopters on to what the gunner looks at. It reads the postion of your iris and calculates what focusing area you are looking toward. |
does this really existe in film cameras?
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07/11/2005 09:05:43 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Discraft:
Originally posted by photodude:
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
eye control? How do you mean? |
Eye control is a Canon system where the camera focuses on the focusing screen that you are actually looking at. In practice, the camera focuses on what you are actually looking at in the frame. You can actually change the focus by moving your eye.
I believe its actually a civilian adaptation of military technology that aims the gun in apache attack helicopters on to what the gunner looks at. It reads the postion of your iris and calculates what focusing area you are looking toward. |
does this really existe in film cameras? |
Yes, it does.
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07/12/2005 12:27:08 AM · #33 |
(Why are you putting letters before numbers? Its the D2X, not the 2DX, and its the 1D Mark II, not the D1 Mark II)
Sorry, must be dyslesic today or something.
As for the eye controlled focus, it sounds expensive. I could do without it. I'd be happy with grid lines for the rule of thirds.
I don't thing the xxD line will steal away 1D crowd, as it is made much more for working pros with more durable/robust build, larger view finder, weather resistence, and other features needed more by working pro's-less by amateurs.
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07/12/2005 06:58:15 AM · #34 |
The eye contol is offered on the Elan - its about $50 more and I believe its Standard on the 3 and 1 Series.
If you ever have an opportunity to try one out I would recommend it. Just remember that you have to calibrate it to your eye first (the camera holds multiple calibrations) and often each eye requires a different calibration. Calibration, btw, takes only a few seconds.
I will say this, the instances of my 300D focusing on the wrong subject greatly exceeds the freqency of that occurance in my Elan. |
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07/12/2005 09:49:36 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by photodude:
The eye contol is offered on the Elan - its about $50 more and I believe its Standard on the 3 and 1 Series.
If you ever have an opportunity to try one out I would recommend it. Just remember that you have to calibrate it to your eye first (the camera holds multiple calibrations) and often each eye requires a different calibration. Calibration, btw, takes only a few seconds.
I will say this, the instances of my 300D focusing on the wrong subject greatly exceeds the freqency of that occurance in my Elan. |
Eye control is NOT offered in the Eos-1 series and is not an option either... as it would be a major problem for composition photography. |
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07/12/2005 09:51:49 AM · #36 |
noiseless ISO. Thats the ticket!
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10/23/2005 09:36:31 AM · #37 |
Bad news for all of you hoping for eye control focus here
I had a good convo with the Canon folks and the NY Photo Expo yesterday, and they said Eye Control is dead going forward. Basically it didn't catch on with the "professionals", so Canon is not going to offer or develop the technology going forward.
I know that the factory guys are notorious for not telling the exact truth about future products, but on this topic I think they were being straight with me.
Too Bad. It is such a great technology. The ability to choose a primary focusing zone just by looking at it, not to mention the ability to use Depth of Field preview just by moving your eye is awesome. Those "professionals" are idiots |
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10/23/2005 09:39:40 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by alexsaberi:
noiseless ISO. Thats the ticket! |
And extended latitude.
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10/23/2005 01:05:32 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by yido:
.....
7. Bigger LCD, I'm starting to think 2 inch is the new minimum size, more resolution for the LCD Screen would be nice as well. |
I'm hoping that 2.5 inches, same as the 5D has, is the new minimum for anything above the entry level model from Canon.
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10/23/2005 02:09:11 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by yido:
.....
7. Bigger LCD, I'm starting to think 2 inch is the new minimum size, more resolution for the LCD Screen would be nice as well. |
I'm hoping that 2.5 inches, same as the 5D has, is the new minimum for anything above the entry level model from Canon. |
The 2.5" LCDs seem to be the new standard, they're appearing on pretty much everything. I doubt you'll ever again see less than a 2.5" display on a Canon DSLR. Even entry level.
This thread is only 6 months old, and already reading through the first posts it seems so dated... in May we had no idea where we'd be today. Imagine where we'll be two years from now.
Edit...
Now that we know the much-rumored "tweener" is the 5D, it will be interesting to see what updates are made to the 20D, and when. It seems pretty clear that there will be FF and 1.6-crop, and the 1.3-crop cams will die away. The 20D successor will almost definitely be 1.6-crop, so the real question is "what can Canon do to significantly upgrade the 20D within the constraints of a 1.6-crop sensor?"
Message edited by author 2005-10-23 14:14:23.
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10/23/2005 08:03:55 PM · #41 |
Well,
Who would have figured. I got a Canon with a bigger buffer, bigger LCD, and about 8MP or so. I just didnt' figure it would be a II N.
Fritz finally got his "tweener" the 5D. And I remember all those nay sayers saying, "KM already has a camera named 5D, Canon would be crazy to name a carmera 5D, more like 3D..." etc.
I now will speculate some more. I think 2.5inch LCD is the standard size and that the 20D replacement is the 5D. The 20D's replacement, if made in a few years will be a FF sensor for about the same cost as the 20D.
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12/06/2005 11:37:46 AM · #42 |
Well I recieved a rumor that the canon 30D is coming out in march...
we shall see if it is true :)
A larger lcd, and same 1.6 crop is also what i heard.
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12/06/2005 11:47:43 AM · #43 |
I think i'll go with a leftover 20D in may-ish if all goes well. if things go better or the 30D has wireless, then i'll go that route.
I did holiday pet portraits for the first time this year and basically i picked the best pose. People expect these days to see teh poses on computer and pick. I shoot loose and crop, so that sucks for me to show my raw image, but moving the card after every client (my laptop is not USB) sucks, and i have not tried shooting tethered, not that my laptop would let me anyway, but i worked hard to be untethered with teh flash so i can't see adding a cord at this point.
I vote for wireless!
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01/10/2006 02:42:37 AM · #44 |
Well, it'll be February soon, so I'd better wake this thread up from slumber and get the rumor mill slowly rolling for kicks and giggles.
Here are my thoughts. With the Nikon D200 out, I figure Canon has something to compete with it in price and featuers. They also predicted that soon, only the entry line (Rebel) will have the 1.6 cropped sensor.
So here are my updated predictions:
About 8-10MP's from a 1.3x crop Digic III sensor.
Why 1.3 crop? To move buyers away from XT (who currently legitimately wonder if paying $400 or so more for same Image quailty is worth it) and onto the mid level camera for more profit and to seperate themselves from every othere camera maker in terms of sensor size, like the 1D and the 5D series. So, pro studio types will have a 1Ds and main and 5D as a backup, Sports types will have the 1D II/N and the 30D in 1.3x as a backup. The entry level will be the XT. Plus having a bigger view finder will be a big way to seperate themselves from the Nikon D200.
Increased LCD size to 2.5inch-this should be a no brainer
More buffer and about 5fps: I'd say about 20 RAW to compete with the D200.
Weather sealing?- maybe, but since the 5D isn't, I'm starting to think no.
I don't think the rest of the stuff need any updating. Same BP511 battery, available grip, bla bla bla.
Price? I'd say about $1500 or so. With everything being comparable to the D200, a bigger sensor (for less noise in theory) and the bigger view finder(which really makes shooting experience more pleasant) should be enough to win potential D200 buyers back to Canon b/c right now, if you are starting new, I can't see why you'd get a 20D over a D200.
Message edited by author 2006-01-10 02:47:31.
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01/10/2006 02:50:56 AM · #45 |
Interesting the idea of a 1.3x crop. The 20D is EF-S compatible and the new 10-22 lens is EF-S and $800+ - not something for the average rebel owner's kit bag, so i till think a 1.6x sensor.
No weather sealing, i agree, and the 2.5" LCD is a no brainer.
Digic3 maybe?
Since the 5D seemed to be a bit of a surprise announcement, what about a cheaper rebel? With the other companies having less expensive cameras, teh 350 is not longer the low price leader. and i'm not sure the body size went over too well.
perhaps a 30D at 1.6x and 5D Mk2 or something at 1.3x and $2800?
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01/10/2006 03:01:48 AM · #46 |
Nah, I heard that Canon is trying to move away from having more cameras.
The 5D already had a $300 price reduction, so it's selling for $2999 at Amazon as we speak.
I think right now, there are way too many people contemplating whether to get a 20D or an XT b/c it has pretty much same sized sensor and image quality. If I was Canon, I'd do something to drive all those fence sitters to the 30D side. This would also allow Canon to reduce the XT's price to compete with the KM 5D, and the Nikon D50. Imagine if the XT's price was reduced to compete with KM and Nikon and the 30D had pretty much the same sized sensor and imaging as the XT. Who'd buy the 30D then? It would drive more potential 30D buyers into the XT camp, a big money losing move for Canon.
With the intro of the II N, it seems like Canon is atleast interested in keeping the 1.3x sensor around a bit and from the dropping price of the 5D and the 1Ds, it seems like the FF sensor is more of a niche market sensor, rather than a main stream sensor. I'd be willing to bet with all those photojournalists and sports shooters, they sell more 1D than 1Ds. Plus I don't think they have the technology to give comparable speed of 8.5fps with 23RAW buffer for a 12-16MP sensor yet. So if they dropped the 1.3x sensor they would lose out with the photojournalist and the sportsshooter crowd.
Lot's of XT owners have a 10-22 (b/c they bought an XT over a 20D hah!!!) they even have L lenses as well, so I don't think that should be a problem. If Canon really wanted the mid level camera to be 1.6x crop, they would have come up with a EF-S L lens by now. But they haven't.
Message edited by author 2006-01-10 03:05:10.
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01/10/2006 03:09:34 AM · #47 |
If I was a gamblin' man, I would say that the profit margin on the XT was the highest in canon's lineup.
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01/10/2006 03:41:59 AM · #48 |
I think mechanically Canon doesn't have much to improve.
Eye controlled focusing would be nice, but not essential, really. Imho.
A great improvement would be 14-16 bit raw depth. Like Fuji S3 Pro. |
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01/10/2006 03:46:59 AM · #49 |
In one magazine a reader suggested that some camera makers ought to to come up with a real B&W camera. Currently every coloured pixel is interpolated from 4 sensor cells (RGGB). If all thoe cells would register intensity only, you would have a camera for BW photography that would yield 4 times the current resolution at zero chrominance and 12-14 bit depth. Now THAT would be something!
Message edited by author 2006-01-10 03:48:11. |
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01/10/2006 06:28:27 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by Gil P:
as for eye control...well I can't see that being ever introduced to a pro or semi pro body. |
I think it already has been.
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