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07/06/2005 05:51:58 AM · #1 |
during our digital group meeting one of our members, a very meticulous and technical savvie photographers mentioned that several of his Cds none over 4 years ols were unreadable and not even several recovery programms could retrieve his images, He uses the best of materials and care and is devestated with this loss.
Is this what we are all going to expect to happen with digital; what of the weddings etc that are taken, should we all back up and recopy our CDs every year or two so we still have our images, Or return to film for perminance?
Interesting to see the V&A museum can still print from the old glass negs of Rodger Fentons work of the Crimean War. Wonder if Iraque Images will be around in 150 years or so.
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07/06/2005 05:58:20 AM · #2 |
I remember a very similiar discussion in our photography club about 4 or 5 months ago. It was highly suggested that in order to keep images safe, one should purchase and external hard drive (or of course, and additional internal drive) specifically for the storage of images, and other very important files. I have made that purchase, however have not yet transfered or cataloged my images. That will probably be a winter project.
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07/06/2005 06:02:02 AM · #3 |
It largley depends on the writing software used, software of a couple of years old was not always compatable with each other, and some was not readable unless the original software is installed. I work with computers and can offer the following sugestions;
1. Use only CDR or DVDr not rewritable, I have found rewritables are very soft and damage easy.
2. Use windows native writer, ie in XP right click on files and send to CD drive
3. Buy quality blanks, I have seen many cheap ones that get like blisters and pop.
4. Keep them in a good place where they will not get damaged.
5. Do mutiple copies.
Hope this helps. |
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07/06/2005 06:08:09 AM · #4 |
I've had a number of CDs and DVDs crap out before now - even those that look in almost mint condition.
As such I duplicate my backups.
I'm also using PhotoShelter as a means of online backup.
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07/06/2005 06:13:21 AM · #5 |
I've found that CD's which I stuck printed labels on are the ones which 'crap out'. I think it may be the glue which leaches through the silicon.
I've now stopped labelling and use a simple pen on the areas of the cd which do not have data on the other side.
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07/06/2005 06:47:04 AM · #6 |
Just spoken to Ron again his thoughts are that the dyes that are on the cds are fading quickly, Further investigations lead him to Believe that the Fuji brand Cd may be better than others for perminancy.
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07/06/2005 06:56:04 AM · #7 |
semi-off-topic rant
i asked this question a while back, and got some incredibly detailed answers, and now i can't find the thread. i've spent the past HOUR trying to google the damn thing up, and i still can't find it.
/semi-off-topic rant
i'll keep looking, because it really did have some great info and links... |
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07/06/2005 07:30:33 AM · #8 |
Hey Skip,
I remember the thread you're talking about. The writer(s) had found some info about how the physical qulity of the CD's poops out in a matter of 3-5 years. This info came from one photo mag or another and was the reason I have started NOT putting my stuff on CD's if I want to permanently save it.
Sorry, but I can't find the thread either.
Originally posted by skiprow:
semi-off-topic rant
i asked this question a while back, and got some incredibly detailed answers, and now i can't find the thread. i've spent the past HOUR trying to google the damn thing up, and i still can't find it.
/semi-off-topic rant
i'll keep looking, because it really did have some great info and links... |
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07/06/2005 07:55:29 AM · #9 |
| Not all cd's are created equal...but they all seem to eventualy "die"...and the problem with CD's and with HD's even if they DID last 1000years....is that, how/what are we going to read/access the files with? |
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07/06/2005 08:20:40 AM · #10 |
Highlights of NIST report on comparison of optical media
"Conclusion: if you use CD-Rs to record data for archival purposes, use disks with a phthalocyanine dye and a gold alloy reflective layer."
MAM-A Gold phthalocyanine CD's are available from the MAM-A online store, amongst other places. (FWIW, MAM-A announced an archive-quality recordable DVD recently as well.)
Since this thread is about "preserving images", I'd recommend a RAID-based home file server, like the very reasonably priced HomeStor. You get reliable storage via RAID-5 (hard drives are mechanical devices and will fail), can easily access your data from any computer on your network, can make point-in-time backups (assuming space is available on your HomeStor), and can backup everything directly from the HomeStor (to MAM-A Gold CD/DVD's, of course!)
Message edited by author 2005-07-06 08:44:04. |
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07/06/2005 11:41:41 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by Steveinnz:
It largley depends on the writing software used, software of a couple of years old was not always compatable with each other, and some was not readable unless the original software is installed. I work with computers and can offer the following sugestions;
2. Use windows native writer, ie in XP right click on files and send to CD drive
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I don't understand this point. If you are writing CD's using the ISO-9660 standard, it shouldn't matter what software wrote the files to the CD. I do recall regarding compatability issues with the drag and drop functionality under older versions of Windows. Multi-session, drag and drop could be a problem, as could a CD burner that was a little loose on alignment (or at the far end of specs, and another that was off the other direction). Also, I have seen where writing at a high speed (say 32X) could cause problems on older 8X drives.
If you use single sessions and finalize your CD, you shouldn't have a problem. I would feel safer with that than Windows drag and drop (although that seems pretty safe these days).
All the other points you made seem to be very good advise.
Just my experiences/thoughts.... |
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07/06/2005 11:51:20 AM · #12 |
Just get a second hard drive. Simpler and more convenient. Put it in a USB box and store it with somebody who you trust. Create a script to backup your data every day.
I have 3 HD, 2 in my computer and one at work. Copy all my data every night to the two extra drives.
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07/06/2005 12:16:07 PM · #13 |
I'm anal about backups.
I use a script that mirrors all my pictures to a second hard drive in my PC and to my iMac over my WLAN.
This happens each time I transfer photo's from a cmpact flash card.
I back them up to ordinary 'cheapo' media.
Once every so often I back-up to Mitsui Gold Cd's and put them in a safe deposit box at the bank.
Message edited by author 2005-07-06 12:16:51.
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07/06/2005 01:40:41 PM · #14 |
Thanks for the links -- I've been having to think about switching to DVDs -- I've been consistently filling 2-5 CDs/month. I just bought a bunch of TDK DVD-R disks -- they look like a silver-base -- for archiving graphics jobs at work, but I'll look into these gold disks for photo archives, while continuing to make ongoing "handy" backups on more generic CDs.
A few years ago Roxio (makers of Toast and Easy CD Creator) ran a couple of helpful articles in their newsletter titled Everything you wanted to know about CD-Rs, except which color to buy. Of course, then a disk could cost $5, and you had to be more picky. |
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07/06/2005 02:35:20 PM · #15 |
I always used Kodak Ultima Gold, but they don't make them anymore. Recently switched to MAM-E (E for Europe, A for Americas) DVD's.
Some manufacturers are very tricky. Imation used Tayo Yuden for their first 2x CD-R's (Tayo Yuden = very good, also used for some Sony, Philips and Fuji branded CD-R's), but after that they switched to a crap manufacturer. Especially Imation Neon CD-R's are very bad, the coating (=data layer) flakes of with ease.
But also Sony or Philips. One line of CD's would be great, but the one that looks just like it would be crap.
IMHO you should also never write, stick stuff or print on the surface of CD-R's and DVD-R's. No matter what the manufacturer says.
Keep them out of the sun.
Keep them away from the airco or heater.
Not to moist, not to dry.
Make two copies, one for normal use and one (stored somewhere very safe) for the Arrggggghhhhh!!! moment.
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07/06/2005 03:06:25 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by jonr:
Just get a second hard drive. Simpler and more convenient. Put it in a USB box and store it with somebody who you trust. Create a script to backup your data every day.
I have 3 HD, 2 in my computer and one at work. Copy all my data every night to the two extra drives. |
I'm relatively convinced that this will be the way to go, unless you're purchasing the DVDs with 50-year archival properties and whatnot.
edit: and even then, that means you'll have to back them up every 40 years or so ;) - not to say that hard drives are infallible.. which I found out the hard way (although that was a hard drive in use on my computer, which might make the situation slightly different).
Message edited by author 2005-07-06 15:07:32.
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