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06/24/2005 08:34:48 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Originally posted by colda:
Another idea would be to split members into divisions based on their average vote recieved, this could be done as a percentage i.e. in the case of 4 divisions there would be 25% splits so that when people post their entry they are automatically entered into the correct division, could even say that a member has to vote on their own division before voting on another, or even that a member cannot vote on their on division.
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I think this is a REALLY poor idea. Not to be able to compete against the "big guns" on a level footing. Someone like me, as a ready-to-hand example, who has a very low votes-received average not because he's a poor photographer but because he doesn't make his images to pander to the DPC masses, would feel a little slighted to be relegated to "second-tier" challenges as a result of artistic independence. I'd stop participating if this became reality.
Robt. |
Hmmm, the challenges would be the same for all, just the voting that would be split.
If you have low votes because you choose to then what's the difference between what you are doing now and what you would do in a division based idea? - you're image would still be there to compete.
Anyway, it's just a concept idea that would need much more definition before it could be put into practice and whateveer the route that dpc takes in the future a solution does need to be found, currently I would not tend to enter challenges over 250 and the dpc plastic 'formula' that does so well on here will continue to reign as these are the images that are simple and stand out in a crowd - dpc, the stock photography contest website
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06/24/2005 08:38:26 AM · #52 |
Just thinking out loud --
what if the "system" (and I know zip about coding, so this may be impossible) automatically/randomly split the challenge into two groups (or more) when submissions went over a set number.
You would be assigned one group to vote on, and could vote on the other sets when the first was complete.
Still just one set of winners though, which is the biggest problem I can see. I just hear it now -- [i]This picture[/] from group a is so much better than the first ten in group b -- the voters were harsher/idioter/crazier,blinder, etc. |
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06/24/2005 08:45:36 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Just thinking out loud --
what if the "system" (and I know zip about coding, so this may be impossible) automatically/randomly split the challenge into two groups (or more) when submissions went over a set number.
You would be assigned one group to vote on, and could vote on the other sets when the first was complete.
Still just one set of winners though, which is the biggest problem I can see. I just hear it now -- [i]This picture[/] from group a is so much better than the first ten in group b -- the voters were harsher/idioter/crazier,blinder, etc. |
With the division idea, it could be done in two divisions where the lower scoring members will be voting on the higher scoring group and visa-versa, that way the lower scorers will have more chance of getting comments and critique from the higher scorers.
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06/24/2005 08:54:25 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by colda:
Originally posted by bear_music:
Originally posted by colda:
Another idea would be to split members into divisions based on their average vote recieved, this could be done as a percentage i.e. in the case of 4 divisions there would be 25% splits so that when people post their entry they are automatically entered into the correct division, could even say that a member has to vote on their own division before voting on another, or even that a member cannot vote on their on division.
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I think this is a REALLY poor idea. Not to be able to compete against the "big guns" on a level footing. Someone like me, as a ready-to-hand example, who has a very low votes-received average not because he's a poor photographer but because he doesn't make his images to pander to the DPC masses, would feel a little slighted to be relegated to "second-tier" challenges as a result of artistic independence. I'd stop participating if this became reality.
Robt. |
Hmmm, the challenges would be the same for all, just the voting that would be split.
If you have low votes because you choose to then what's the difference between what you are doing now and what you would do in a division based idea? - you're image would still be there to compete.
Anyway, it's just a concept idea that would need much more definition before it could be put into practice and whateveer the route that dpc takes in the future a solution does need to be found, currently I would not tend to enter challenges over 250 and the dpc plastic 'formula' that does so well on here will continue to reign as these are the images that are simple and stand out in a crowd - dpc, the stock photography contest website |
I'd assumed you meant what began as one challenge would become 4 challenges, with 4 sets of winners. If you meant that they would be split for VOTING purposes, with the votes compared across all divisions, and a single group of ribbons, the problem with that would be that there very likely is a difference in perception between high-scoring members and low-scoring members. The "best" photographers, IMO, are as a group more open to true excellence and less likely to wear conceptual blinders in their voting. So out-of-the-box thinking relegated to a lower-scoring group, and voted on by that group, would be punished even more than it often is now, possibly.
In general, any time you split the voting up into sections, especially if those sections are being voted on by different groups of people, you introduce a potential disparity into the equation. We already have that, of course, with the 20% requirement. Any splitting of the entries into divisions for voting purposes probably would best be done by random seeding, for that reason.
Robt.
Just saw Colda's latest. So the shots by the "best" photographers would be voted on by the "worst" photographers? That's a recipe for low-balling votes, knowing that you can "sink" all those pesky ribbon-winners collectively and thus give your second-tier entry a chance to shine... I'm sure it would happen, or at least that people would assume it was happening. An actual REASON to be a troll, LOL.
Message edited by author 2005-06-24 08:57:59.
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06/24/2005 09:09:25 AM · #55 |
That was one of the first things that came to mind about the suggestion of partitioning groups for voting.
Based on my current avg I certainly wouldn't mind the top group of DPC photographers voting on my entries - in addition to receiving top scores I think they also dish out higher scores. However, I wouldn't want to be in their group... ;^) And no, they need not worry about my votes as I rarely get to vote anymore with my lousy 40k dial-up connection.
Originally posted by bear_music:
Just saw Colda's latest. So the shots by the "best" photographers would be voted on by the "worst" photographers? That's a recipe for low-balling votes, knowing that you can "sink" all those pesky ribbon-winners collectively and thus give your second-tier entry a chance to shine... I'm sure it would happen, or at least that people would assume it was happening. An actual REASON to be a troll, LOL. |
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06/24/2005 09:15:05 AM · #56 |
I think we should have 1 open challenge a month and the rest member's only..that might help, or put a cap on the voting which would definitely encourage me to get my entry in before the witching hour which is what usually happens : )
Message edited by author 2005-06-24 09:15:27. |
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06/24/2005 09:17:37 AM · #57 |
Based on my current avg I certainly wouldn't mind the top group of DPC photographers voting on my entries - in addition to receiving top scores I think they also dish out higher scores.
This idea has been in my head more and more lately! Like wine tasting - would you have a group of beer drinkers judging a Chardonnay? (Ducks for cover) |
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06/24/2005 09:21:11 AM · #58 |
No problem - hey how DO you open this bottle anyway? Dang top w-o-n-'t twist O-F-F!!!
Originally posted by amber:
...Like wine tasting - would you have a group of beer drinkers judging a Chardonnay? (Ducks for cover) |
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06/24/2005 09:21:20 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Just saw Colda's latest. So the shots by the "best" photographers would be voted on by the "worst" photographers? That's a recipe for low-balling votes, knowing that you can "sink" all those pesky ribbon-winners collectively and thus give your second-tier entry a chance to shine... I'm sure it would happen, or at least that people would assume it was happening. An actual REASON to be a troll, LOL. |
I'm not claiming to have the answers, rather to come up with suggestions in the hope that a solution can be found, as things stand I find myself slipping further and further away from this site and I wish this was not the case.
I encourage everyone to throw ideas into the ring, by being proactive and open-minded there just might be a chance to improve things.
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06/24/2005 09:23:35 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
No problem - hey how DO you open this bottle anyway? Dang top w-o-n-'t twist O-F-F!!!
Originally posted by amber:
...Like wine tasting - would you have a group of beer drinkers judging a Chardonnay? (Ducks for cover) |
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I normally pull it with my teeth;) |
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06/24/2005 12:25:36 PM · #61 |
It doesnt matter much to me...I am on my own program from now on. Just putting photos in my profile and skipping the challenges all together. If people come by and comment then so be it if they do not then that is fine as well.
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06/28/2005 04:31:07 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by DustDevil:
I only vote in challenges I enter. I figure I shouldnt be able to vote on something I didn't have the guts or ideas to put into a camera. |
See, that's funny, a lot of folks (myself included) don't feel they should vote in contests they DO enter because they think they're likely to vote unfairly, even on a subconscious level, to try and boost their own rank.
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06/28/2005 06:38:25 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by riot:
Originally posted by DustDevil:
I only vote in challenges I enter. I figure I shouldnt be able to vote on something I didn't have the guts or ideas to put into a camera. |
See, that's funny, a lot of folks (myself included) don't feel they should vote in contests they DO enter because they think they're likely to vote unfairly, even on a subconscious level, to try and boost their own rank. |
I came to the same conclusion a few months ago, riot. Voting on the challenges I had entered just didn't "feel right" anymore, so I decided to vote only on those challenges I had NOT entered.
DustDevil, I think once you have some experience with photography in general and entering challenges in particular, you can judge fairly what it takes to produce an outstanding shot, whether you've entered a challenge or not. |
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06/28/2005 06:43:27 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by jenesis:
Originally posted by DustDevil:
Well I think caps the problem is people put a temp entry in....to just hold their spot. And as to 24 hour cahllenges i think they are more random than planned. From what I have heard the SC does not even know when they will happen. |
That's easy enough to fix. Let's just say, once you enter, you're in for good. No changing entries once they've been entered. What's wrong with that?? It's not like you get a second chance to enter into a juried competition. That would take care of that problem. People will just have to work on their photos and get it the way they want it before they enter it. Not such a big deal, I don't think. |
This potential problem has come up before in similar threads and I proposed the same solution as you but nothing ever came of it. I have a strong preference that if I vote on a challenge I vote on every entry. If I can't see myself being able to I don't vote at all. My preferences, my choice.
But I'm sure there are others who feel as I do and therefore lots of potential votes and comments are being lost. (I don't get to see the images if I don't vote and I don't comment if I don't see).
I think capping entries would be a huge boon but would need to be kept in check by disallowing entries to be withdrawn or changed after entry.
Perhaps more challenges with smaller numbers allowed in each one would be best?
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06/28/2005 06:51:57 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by DustDevil:
I only vote in challenges I enter. I figure I shouldnt be able to vote on something I didn't have the guts or ideas to put into a camera. |
You think not entering means not having the guts to do so????
I don't enter because I get more out of other aspects of this site, in terms of improving my own photography, than I do out of entering. Weekly challenges are not my way of working and pushing myself to do them for the sake of it doesn't give me the benefits I am looking for from my participation here. Looking at other peoples' images, looking at them in a sufficiently detailed way to be able to vote on them and comment on them, teaches me a lot more.
Perhaps we could have a flag displayed against entries belonging to those who don't feel votes from non-entrants are of merit? I'd be more than happy to skip those and spend more time on the others...
Message edited by author 2005-06-28 18:52:26.
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06/28/2005 07:12:50 PM · #66 |
Agreed over 500 entries is ludicris
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06/28/2005 07:32:43 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I usually preview mine as well. There have been times when the image looks a bit different - sharper, etc... |
You can just open a JPEG directly in your browser to see what it will look like. There's no need to upload it. |
Except that if you open it up in a browser it has a white background and not the grey one you see here and may require a tweak or change of plan. |
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06/28/2005 07:48:06 PM · #68 |
| OK, I didn't read every post in this thread, but could someone explain to me what is wrong with the system the way it is right now? What exactly is the problem that needs fixing? |
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06/28/2005 07:50:23 PM · #69 |
Since that post I've discovered that in PSP 9 I can preview the image in a browser and I can set parameters for the background as well along the way (auto prompts for it). This still doesn't accomodate the actual voting page layout, etc...but that's another subject that's already been beat up pretty well (along with this one). ;^)
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I usually preview mine as well. There have been times when the image looks a bit different - sharper, etc... |
You can just open a JPEG directly in your browser to see what it will look like. There's no need to upload it. |
Except that if you open it up in a browser it has a white background and not the grey one you see here and may require a tweak or change of plan. |
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06/28/2005 07:54:38 PM · #70 |
I'm wondering why there are so many comments in here about "pandering to the DPC masses", as if all the rest of us are idiots who only vote highly for easily comprehensible images. Only the individual who posted the "not so well received work" is smart enough and art savvy enough to realize that the rest of us "masses" don't realize what we are looking at. We don't understand the difference between good and bad.
Kind of reminds me of an old Gary Larson (Far Side) cartoon. It's an organizational chart with your bubble in the center, surrounded and interconnected by a huge number of other bubbles. Of course, the center bubble says "You are Here", and all the rest say "Idiot".
From what I've seen of the blue ribbon entries, they're pretty damn good. They're not the types of images I look at and think "ah, the moronic masses, yet again, picked the most generic, vanilla, easily accessible piece".
That said, my opinion is that if you enter a "photo contest" then it seems right and proper to keep your audience in mind. After all, the word "contest" infers that the photo will be compared to others, and the people doing the comparing MOST LIKELY do not see the world the same way you do. |
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06/28/2005 08:05:12 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by aboutimage:
I'm wondering why there are so many comments in here about "pandering to the DPC masses", as if all the rest of us are idiots who only vote highly for easily comprehensible images. Only the individual who posted the "not so well received work" is smart enough and art savvy enough to realize that the rest of us "masses" don't realize what we are looking at. We don't understand the difference between good and bad.
Kind of reminds me of an old Gary Larson (Far Side) cartoon. It's an organizational chart with your bubble in the center, surrounded and interconnected by a huge number of other bubbles. Of course, the center bubble says "You are Here", and all the rest say "Idiot".
From what I've seen of the blue ribbon entries, they're pretty damn good. They're not the types of images I look at and think "ah, the moronic masses, yet again, picked the most generic, vanilla, easily accessible piece".
That said, my opinion is that if you enter a "photo contest" then it seems right and proper to keep your audience in mind. After all, the word "contest" infers that the photo will be compared to others, and the people doing the comparing MOST LIKELY do not see the world the same way you do. |
Look, if you can't tell that my photo is the best, most out-of-the-box work of art that ever hit this site, then you aren't qualified to change my CF card!
...and don't say "It doesn't meet the Beautiful challenge" cause beauty is in the eye of ME and this is friggin beautiful! AND DON'T TELL ME THE FOCUS IS OFF - I INTENDED IT TO BE THAT WAY! *grumble grumble* stupid masses!
ROFL Hehehehe - obviously I pretty much agree with your sentiments. :)
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06/28/2005 08:10:04 PM · #72 |
| Well, damned if I wasn't about to say that your photo is the best, most out-of-the-box work I've never... er, ever... seen. |
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06/29/2005 01:33:11 PM · #73 |
How about double topics at once? Have two challenges going, and you are allowed to enter only one. This will give more creative choice as well as splitting the amount of entries without separating high scorers and lower scorers. (especially subjective versus objective topics - For example: This week's topics are "fantasy" or "metal." You can enter one of the two challenges this week. "Metal" can be seen as the more "clear-cut" specific topic and should satisfy the 'I vote down if not exactly what I think the topic means' crowd, while the other is what the photographer imagines.
Whatcha think? |
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