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06/21/2005 03:07:35 AM · #1 |
| I get the feeling that DCPers are not so creative as I first thought. Everyone always wants tack sharp images with a tone of depth of field and nothing out of the ordinary is ok. 90% of the people that have commented on my fantasy picture have said the same thing (I can't state it cause it would give it away). That same thing everyone hates is the reason I choose that specific shot. Artistic interpretations are looked down on cause everyone wantes everything to be so commercial and boring. screw that, if every picture in the world was tack sharp and shot of F22 I don't think I would have become a photographer because all the really great stuff would simply not be. When I first started shooting I to though everything should be sharp and perfect, but as a grew as an artist that totally changed. I hope that people start growing in there art and seeing that not everything needs to be perfect and life and art is better when it is not. |
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06/21/2005 03:13:00 AM · #2 |
I reckon people just have different cups of teas, and the flavor is individually influenced by personal experiences, experience in photography or art, etc.
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06/21/2005 03:17:26 AM · #3 |
As I believe I've mentioned before, part of creating popular images, certainly on DPC, is related to their stock appeal. As such doing well on DPC is about creating stock-like popular images (crisp, vibrant, simple). As it says in the top left, it is a contest not an art show.
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06/21/2005 04:11:29 AM · #4 |
I agree with Paul.
If you want to win a competition you need to comply to the voters needs. I.e. Bright, sharp & simple normally do better than complex and artsy. It's up to you to decide if you want to enter photos here that you like because they mean something to you, but to have to put up with sometimes un called for criticism, or to go with the flow & create something the people want.
I have to admit I am also guilty of marking something down because it is soft, as it is the easy way. When you have to judge 400 images, it is difficult to take your time on each piture & assess it's artistic merrits. Instead you tend to skip through, and when one POPS out at you cause it is sharp & bright, it is easy to say Good or bad.
This doesn't mean your picture is bad, just that that sort of picture doesn't do well here. However there are exceptions to every rule. |
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06/21/2005 04:15:37 AM · #5 |
I don't wish to be rude, and it may not be the case here but...
90% of time, people complaining about low scores for "artistic" interpretations are actually scoring low because their image simply isn't a good one. Artistic does not necessarily mean appealing or well-executed...
Given the nature of the vote - a popular vote taking account a wide variety of tastes - certainly those images that appeal to the widest audience will do well - and that can sometimes exclude SOME artistic efforts by extremely artistic and talented photographers.
But often I come back to these threads afterwards and look up the image in question and realise that the low score has nothing to do with DPCers being boring or closed to artistic ideas.
And btw, there are certainly cases where artistic ideas and shallow DOF have scored highly on DPC.
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06/21/2005 05:36:45 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
I don't wish to be rude, and it may not be the case here but...
90% of time, people complaining about low scores for "artistic" interpretations are actually scoring low because their image simply isn't a good one. Artistic does not necessarily mean appealing or well-executed...
Given the nature of the vote - a popular vote taking account a wide variety of tastes - certainly those images that appeal to the widest audience will do well - and that can sometimes exclude SOME artistic efforts by extremely artistic and talented photographers.
But often I come back to these threads afterwards and look up the image in question and realise that the low score has nothing to do with DPCers being boring or closed to artistic ideas.
And btw, there are certainly cases where artistic ideas and shallow DOF have scored highly on DPC. |
Agreed - there is sometimes a tendency (especially in modern society) to give credit for everything. People seem to want to reward effort rather than recognise ability. There is a perception that anyone can do anything (Prince Charles got into a lot of trouble for making similar comments...!). While people should be encouraged to try, it is sometimes kinder to tell someone that they are just not very good at doing something. If they want to continue doing that thing, no problem, compliment them on their effort and encourage them to prove you wrong. But don't let people strive forward in the misguided belief that they have a real ability, where the evidence on which they place their belief does not justify the conclusion!
In artistic fields, this can be more complicated: talent can be hard to recognise. For example, Tracy Emin's bed: genius, or just an unmade bed? Some would say that it takes no talent or ability to put an unmade bed on display. The arguments in respect of a single piece of art can go on for years. However, I have seen some of her watercolours, and there is no question that she has a very strong ability in traditional artistic terms. She has a talent: the only question is whether one agrees with her direction. On that basis, it seems reasonable to give her debateable work more latitude than that of a newcomer.
Anyway - getting back to the point: I agree with what Kavey said.
PS I don't pretend to have any ability to spot talent or claim particular talent for myself.
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06/21/2005 06:36:47 AM · #7 |
I think most people will find that over time their tastes change. The longer I have been a part of dpc (been here since 02/2002) the more I've found myself looking for, and appreciating the "non-stock" look. After a while the "stock" look gets very repetative, and you find yourself looking for something new and fresh.
So I guess I'm saying don't give up. Many of the older members of this site tend to look for the edgy photos and enjoy them just as much. |
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06/21/2005 07:15:22 AM · #8 |
As others have already stated, this is a competitive site. This means that images pleasing the most people to the highest degree are bound to win ribbons and become site favourites.
This site is probably the best site on the web that enables photographers, both newcomers and seasoned veterans, to broaden their photographic skills in a competitive yet friendly manner. Stock photography is most often the type of photos we generate when we are learning to use equipement and techniques. As knowledge of photography grows, people start experimenting more and more. Some stray away from stock photography to try other things while others get comfortable in that medium and work at getting better at it. Calling people boring because they are learning is pretty lame. It shows a lack of respect for other people's opinions. With this in mind, I have to respect that you think (some)photographers here are boring. I don't agree with your point of view, but I still respect it.
If you are looking for peer review outside of a competitive arena and are looking to submit more images that stray from stock-ish type photos, I suggest your start submitting to other photography sites such as Deviant Art, Pbase, Photosig while continuing to submit here. You may find more photographic lattitude at these sites and more appreciation for what you consider as being your artistic photography.
Sorry that you feel that your stuff isn't going over too well, but as you clearly stated "not everything needs to be perfect and life and art is better when it is not." Oh, and nice website by the way. Love the portraits, although they are pretty stock 
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06/21/2005 08:04:14 AM · #9 |
I take pix to see how I am doing on a personal scale. But, I don't nessisarally (sorry spelling bad) submit world class pix because I am stupid. That is why I am here on DPC.
I am in the film industry, but that does not give me an advantage.
I love to do montages, but DPC does not.
I find my artistry is revealed to me by my mistakes, and not by the level of success on this site.
BUT it does drive me to drink!
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06/21/2005 08:09:38 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by swinging_johnson_v1:
BUT it does drive me to drink! |
I'll drink to that!
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06/21/2005 08:17:49 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by swinging_johnson_v1:
BUT it does drive me to drink! |
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Can you pick me up on your way then, I can't drink and drive - I keep spilling it! |
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06/21/2005 08:21:44 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by jmoore:
I get the feeling that DCPers are not so creative as I first thought. Everyone always wants tack sharp images with a tone of depth of field and nothing out of the ordinary is ok. 90% of the people that have commented on my fantasy picture have said the same thing (I can't state it cause it would give it away). That same thing everyone hates is the reason I choose that specific shot. Artistic interpretations are looked down on cause everyone wantes everything to be so commercial and boring. screw that, if every picture in the world was tack sharp and shot of F22 I don't think I would have become a photographer because all the really great stuff would simply not be. When I first started shooting I to though everything should be sharp and perfect, but as a grew as an artist that totally changed. I hope that people start growing in there art and seeing that not everything needs to be perfect and life and art is better when it is not. |
As you can tell by my portfolio, I too prefer the artistic aproach to taking photos. I feel that I am an artist first and then a photographer 2nd. It just seems natural to me to "artsy up" a photo when it is perfectly fine. I had a version of my entry in the Fantasy challenge that I blurred and I liked it MUCH better but i didn't enter it just on the fact that I would get negative comments. In the lighting challenge I blurred a photo and then sharpend it to get the look I wanted and got hammered for it. I thought I better just get more creative with the set-up instead of the effects. I agree with you, but I have also seen MANY creative pictures on this website. I don't think I have EVER pulled up someones profile and didn't see at least one picture that was wonderfully done. |
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06/21/2005 08:30:45 AM · #13 |
Both Mandy and Jamie - you are both good photographer/artists AND will win ribbons on this site, not by changing the way you shoot, but by communicating your vision better. If you want to win a ribbon, you can't shoot and edit something that ONLY looks good to you. If you can find something in your shots that appeals to MY emotion, MY feelings, then you've communicated. I don't enter much anymore because I don't always find that spark to communicate with the viewer - DPC is a contest site and if you play, play to win.
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06/21/2005 08:35:25 AM · #14 |
| Thank you mavrik! Finding something that appeals to the masses is hard. |
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06/21/2005 08:43:49 AM · #15 |
We aren't the masses here. We are people who take pictures on digital media and submit them for critique in a forum of like-minded people.
That said, I am boring, un-imaginative, lazy, clueless, and a vindictive voter when I think your "artistic" photo is bound to soar ahead of mine....oh, and you can now add "rude" to my list of adjectives.
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06/21/2005 08:44:14 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
Both Mandy and Jamie - you are both good photographer/artists AND will win ribbons on this site, not by changing the way you shoot, but by communicating your vision better. If you want to win a ribbon, you can't shoot and edit something that ONLY looks good to you. If you can find something in your shots that appeals to MY emotion, MY feelings, then you've communicated. I don't enter much anymore because I don't always find that spark to communicate with the viewer - DPC is a contest site and if you play, play to win. |
I think that Jamie's portfolio on this site is pretty impressive already - only by chance has she not been ribboning already.
Personally, I have become a little less score obsessed (or so I like to think) - it is more important to me to retain my own feel for images and to develop a more coherent style of phtoography.
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06/21/2005 08:46:37 AM · #17 |
Is this F24 ?
Cute eyes, and beautiful baby :-) |
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06/21/2005 08:49:59 AM · #18 |
it is more important to me to retain my own feel for images and to develop a more coherent style of phtoography.
Exactly - I am beginning to see images int he challenges that I am fairly sure belong to a certain photographer - Joey Lawrence being the obvious one, but there are others. I'm experimentting through the challenges till I find my singnature style/ |
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06/21/2005 09:39:35 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by amber:
it is more important to me to retain my own feel for images and to develop a more coherent style of phtoography.
Exactly - I am beginning to see images int he challenges that I am fairly sure belong to a certain photographer - Joey Lawrence being the obvious one, but there are others. I'm experimentting through the challenges till I find my singnature style/ |
I know it's terribly cliche...but you have to be true to yourself if you want to evolve as a photographer...this is how a "style" errupts...and not everyone is going to dig your "style", and that's just fine...God knows I have payed dearly for not bending when entering these challenges but it's just the best feeling when just one person "gets" what you're trying to say or show. If I wanted to please everyone I'd be a "stock" photographer...but I wouldn't be happy and would most likely be rocking in a corner somewhere...but everyone has to start somewhere....it's just that some evolve a little quicker than others and some never evolve at all.
Message edited by author 2005-06-21 09:59:39. |
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06/21/2005 09:49:18 AM · #20 |
Lets see you want to submit work the is artistic and outside of the box. But, at the same time be wildly popular. It has been my experience that most artist are missunderstood. Monet was constantly being told he was crazy. So if the masses are not getting your stuff maybe that is a compliment.
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06/21/2005 10:04:52 AM · #21 |
Agreed - there is sometimes a tendency (especially in modern society) to give credit for everything. People seem to want to reward effort rather than recognise ability.
RIGHT ON TARGET WITH THTA STATEMENT...
I work at sporting events and at the end of the day EVERYONE gets a trophy. EVERYONE IS A WINNER. hop skip jump, its a feel good competition I think. theres no room for loosers, OOPs lets not call them loosers, howabout non winners, oops better not say that, ummm runners up... now thats not nice of me to say.... my goodness lets not hurt someones feelings...
They back up an entire semi truck full of trophies to accomidate all those other than winners. An award of the subscriber |
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06/21/2005 10:53:37 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by gusto:
Agreed - there is sometimes a tendency (especially in modern society) to give credit for everything. People seem to want to reward effort rather than recognise ability. |
An excellent example are the poor saps that make the funny files on the various Idol shows all over the world. These poor shmucks are strung on by family and friends for years into believing that they can sing well and then... WHAMO!... you suck! Some of these poor creatures can't even face the reality that they couldn't sing well enough to panhandle with their "talent".
Message edited by author 2005-06-21 10:55:52.
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06/21/2005 10:55:15 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by gusto:
I work at sporting events and at the end of the day EVERYONE gets a trophy. EVERYONE IS A WINNER. |
It everyone wins then there is nothing to strive for. The thrill is lost and you become apathetic and dont even try. |
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06/21/2005 10:58:47 AM · #24 |
Beagleboy's point is a good one. I joined this site for that very reason. Friends and family always tell you your stuff is great. I wanted an impartial panel to give me feedback. Sometimes the truth hurts. I happy with the responces so far. Even if some are not that good. I just wish for what everyone else is wishing for. More comments ans explaination.
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06/21/2005 11:48:09 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
Originally posted by gusto:
Agreed - there is sometimes a tendency (especially in modern society) to give credit for everything. People seem to want to reward effort rather than recognise ability. |
An excellent example are the poor saps that make the funny files on the various Idol shows all over the world. These poor shmucks are strung on by family and friends for years into believing that they can sing well and then... WHAMO!... you suck! Some of these poor creatures can't even face the reality that they couldn't sing well enough to panhandle with their "talent". |
Clap! Clap! Clap!
Someone had to say it. So many times I've seen shots here with 10 comments on how beautiful a shot and all I can do is think "Huh"...
Go against the grain and someone will inevitably go into your profile and point out "Coming from someone with a 4.9801 avg vote cast...blah blah blah...", I do have a 4.9801 AVC and IMO there are Far More Average ( <5> ) shots, Artistic or Straight from Cam, than Emotionally stirring Technically sound photos. I do not give Charity Votes (or charity comments for that matter)...
Regarding photography we are not here to make each other feel good about themselves by telling what a wonderful shot their otherwise mediocre shot is, we should be helping each other improve upon the shots that we submit.
The reality check is that DPC is (should) not the real target audience for us photogs... the real target is outside of this place like customers, gallery displays and real contests. We should be helping each other prep for the real world events and not try to restrict to the thinking of the Popular (genre driven) DPC vote.
I don't know about anyone else but I do not have a ton of prints from DCPrints (or other on-line galleries) hanging on my wall... I do not buy many modern day photos by other photogs... I take pictures why would I want something that I can take, print and say I did that? A Shot would have to impress the shiznit out of me to actually buy it. I can almost guarantee that when one does that it is an Artistic, Creative and Technically well executed shot.
Sorry, I'm starting to rant now...
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