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06/18/2005 11:08:29 AM · #26 |
I think Canon's plan is to have Rebel be their entry model. It seems to be a smaller, cheaper, defeatured version of the D series with similar imaging quality from the last two series.
The 10/20/30? D series will be for serious amateur/pro level use.
The D1 Mark series seems be for Pro's with a heavier body, weather resistence, more durability, and more fps.
The D1s Mark series seems to be for studio professionals, offering the most MP in a FF sensor with slower fps than D1 series.
I think the difference is price is more for features than for improvements in imaging and also marketing purposes as well.
As for me, I'm waiting for the 30D to upgrade. If the 30D seems worth it, then I'll get it, if not I'll get the outgoing 20D for a big discount.
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06/18/2005 11:51:59 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by yido:
I think Canon's plan is to have Rebel be their entry model. It seems to be a smaller, cheaper, defeatured version of the D series with similar imaging quality from the last two series. |
For the record, the "Rebel" is a D series camera. Outside the US the Digital Rebel XT and the Digital Rebel are called the 350D and 300D respectively.
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06/18/2005 11:53:31 AM · #28 |
I'm gonna go for either a 1D Mark I or a 20D... the Mark II would be a great camera but it's just out of reach.
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06/18/2005 12:00:19 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by kyebosh:
I'm gonna go for either a 1D Mark I or a 20D... |
I'll keep you informed. My 1DmkI should arrive Wednesday I hope.
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06/18/2005 12:23:08 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by kyebosh:
I'm gonna go for either a 1D Mark I or a 20D... |
I'll keep you informed. My 1DmkI should arrive Wednesday I hope. |
Awesome, congrats on what I hear is an amazing camera :-)
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06/18/2005 01:03:05 PM · #31 |
a lot of confusion...
like another poster said, all Digital SLR's from Canon ar D series (d for digital)
The pro models are EOS-1 (1DMkII and 1DsMkII) that being said, I've not hear or seen any hint of a 30d for the fall...but that does not mean it will not be around. one thing is for sure it will NOT be 12MP or FF.
Like I said earlier, there is absolutly no comparing EOS-1 models with the rest, be it the 20d 30d or 10000000d when they come to market.
The 20d is a great camera but NOT recognised as proffessionnal body... by Canon...that does not mean that someone cannot earn a living with 20d's... but I know people that earn a living with 300d's.... there comes a point where it feels like this whole discussion is a lot more technocratic and "hierarchal" than it is about the true nature and usage of the camera. |
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06/18/2005 01:37:21 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I have been trying to decide when to buy another DSLR. I need a second camera body. My original plan was to purchase whatever Canon replaces the 20d with sometime next year. |
a few months ago I upgraded from 10D to 20D. I sold my 10D+grip+2 lenses to my nephew and that way I made most the money for
the 20D. I had just about convinced myself not to upgrade, because the specs on these two cameras are so similar that it
almost did not seem to be worth the hassle. But I knew I would, at some point, upgrade so it made most sense to do it at that
time, while the 10D still had some value.
Then came the big surprise: the 20D is SO MUCH BETTER than the 10D, and I already liked the 10D alot. There is no one feature
which is the big difference (except maybe the startup time) but 20D is in (almost) every way much better and faster, and
these little points build up and the accumulated difference is quite big.
The things I like the most about 20D (vs 10D):
#1 the very short startup time. It instantly on, soon as I press the shutter. So I never turn it off, just set the auto-
shutdown at 1 min, and it's ready when I need it.
#2 better battery life, quite likely a result of #1. I have the new grip (BG-E2) for the 20D and with 2 original Canon BP-
511A battery packs the batteries last for a very long time. Several thousands of frames.
#3 Better and faster auto-focus. I really like the 9p system, and once I figured out Custom Function #13/1 multi-controler
direct I can choose whatever AF point fast and pressing the main AF button chooses them all. One trick: press the multi-
controler straight down to select middle AF point. Almost always one of the AF points is at a usable point in the frame and
they are all fairly sensetive.
#4 Better and easier to use scrolling of pics on the LCD. No more pressing of button to change up/down to left/right.
#5 8.2 MP vs 6.3. A no-brainer
#6 5 fps vs 3.3 fps.
#7 Much, much faster writing to CF card, and review while writing. I never (ok, almost never) have to wait for the 20D to
finish its busines, but I was always waiting on the 10D
#8 Faster max shutter - 1/8000 vs 1/4000
#9 Much less noise at high ISO. I don't see any noise at 400, only sometimes a little at 800, and 1600 is quite good as well.
#10 add #5 + #6 + #7 + #8 + #9 and you can set the camera to ISO 1600 in daylight and freeze a lot of frames at 1/8000
#11 the built in flash pops up much higher and less risk of the lens casting a shadow.
#12 more parameters and processing options.
Cons:
#1 The new grip is looser on the body than the old grip. Not much of a problem for me, but can be a hassle in the studio for
high precision macro work.
#2 6 image buffer (raw) vs 9 for 10D. But the 20D is so much faster in writing that this doesn't really come into play.
Other:
#1 Dark frame subtraction (CF #2). Haven't tried this in any real sense yet, but looks promising.
#2 The on/off button on the Grip (BG-E2) is in a much better place than on the old grip, I was always accidentally turning it
off.
To sum it up: the 20D is much faster and more precise than the 10D. And with more options/features that I actually use.
Message edited by author 2005-06-18 13:47:17. |
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06/18/2005 01:44:20 PM · #33 |
I use my camera mostly for my own pleasure. I decided to buy new camera, SLR, and was thinking about 20D. But I don't care about fast shooting, so I cannot undestand why I should pay $1400 for 20D and not buy 350D for $800 or Nikon D70 for the same $800. maybe you can tell me the reason?
Message edited by author 2005-06-18 13:45:25. |
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06/18/2005 01:45:15 PM · #34 |
What's wrong with the 20D's macro work?
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06/18/2005 01:48:40 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Grigolly:
I use my camera mostly for my own pleasure. I decided to buy new camera, SLR, and was thinking about 20D. But I don't care about fast shooting, so I cannot undestand why I should pay $1400 for 20D and not buy 350D for $800 or Nikon D70 for the same $800. maybe you can tell me the reason? |
I really thnik that in your application a camera like the 350xt (or even the 300d) will bring you lots of enjoyment, They are both very capable cameras. I would also recommend bying a more affordable body and keep the extra money for a decent lens, Don't get caught in all the "this is better" hoopla...you have to consider your usage. As for canon vs nikon... well again at the same price, the canon is technically better. |
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06/18/2005 01:48:42 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by kyebosh:
What's wrong with the 20D's macro work? |
nothing.
but if the camera is a little bit loose on the grip (like mine is) then it can wiggle a little bit and that can cause blur on photos. Solution: take grip of (bit of a hassle with hand-strap, but not too much) |
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06/18/2005 01:51:45 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Gil P:
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[/quote]I really thnik that in your application a camera like the 350xt (or even the 300d) will bring you lots of enjoyment, They are both very capable cameras. I would also recommend bying a more affordable body and keep the extra money for a decent lens, Don't get caught in all the "this is better" hoopla...you have to consider your usage. As for canon vs nikon... well again at the same price, the canon is technically better.[/quote]
Thanks for help:)
Message edited by author 2005-06-18 13:54:17. |
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06/18/2005 03:19:39 PM · #38 |
I expect the next generation of Canon DSLRs to have larger LCD screens. There seems to be a trend in that direction. Canon is lagging behind and will likely want to close the gap some.
And a better quality battery grip over the 20D's is needed.
And I'd like to see Canon move max flash sync speed from 1/250 to 1/500.
Originally posted by magnus:
As for why the Mark II is $3000 more, a big part of it has got to be the cost of the sensor. Chip price really is a nasty function of size, something like exponential if I remember right. |
Much of "chip price" is in R&D but at the numbers that Canon is selling it becomes cost efficient to develope a new sensor for each new model.
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
My newspaper sports work is why i want a faster frame rate. I'm just not sure if 5fps will satisfy me until i'm able to try it. |
If you are anything like me 5 fps will seem very impressive until you are shooting next to a guy with one of the big "pro" bodies and you hear him shoot at 8. And until you shoot some maximum speed bursts in good light only to find that you have a perfect shot just before the precise moment and another just after it. That's when you realize how much action can take place in one fifth of a second.
I love my 20D. But I recognize it's shortcomings compared to the bigger "pro" DSLRs. I think for my next camera I may try Nikon. Don't want to go thru life never having tasted the alternative.
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06/18/2005 03:32:03 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Gil P:
Originally posted by aled:
I'm still using my old D30. Recently bought a 20D and the difference in functionality is negligible, performance obviously has improved. I have noticed that the D30 sensor requires far less cleaning and picks up less dirt so it is usually the camera I take out with me on the spur of the moment also it seems to be far more resilient than the 20D (e.g. the 20D has a flimsy CF cover that moves around and creaks in the grip). 8+ Mpixels brings out a lot more detail on my macro shots especially I've noticed on insect compound eyes... |
The reason your D30 gets less dirty is also the reason why it was so much less sensitive and accurate. |
Gil, could you please expand upon that statement. For us 20D owners who never had a D30, what is the reason our cameras get more dirt on the sensor?
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06/18/2005 03:39:12 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by Gil P:
Originally posted by aled:
I'm still using my old D30. Recently bought a 20D and the difference in functionality is negligible, performance obviously has improved. I have noticed that the D30 sensor requires far less cleaning and picks up less dirt so it is usually the camera I take out with me on the spur of the moment also it seems to be far more resilient than the 20D (e.g. the 20D has a flimsy CF cover that moves around and creaks in the grip). 8+ Mpixels brings out a lot more detail on my macro shots especially I've noticed on insect compound eyes... |
The reason your D30 gets less dirty is also the reason why it was so much less sensitive and accurate. |
Gil, could you please expand upon that statement. For us 20D owners who never had a D30, what is the reason our cameras get more dirt on the sensor? |
Most dust on the sensor gets there because of the fact that there is some electrostatic magnetism going on... the first sensors generated less electrostatic fields and also retained less magnetism when off, so when the camera was open, particles were less "attracted". I did not come up with that one myself! On the down side, they were far less sensitive.
Message edited by author 2005-06-18 15:40:46. |
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06/18/2005 04:03:23 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Gil P:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by Gil P:
Originally posted by aled:
I'm still using my old D30. Recently bought a 20D and the difference in functionality is negligible, performance obviously has improved. I have noticed that the D30 sensor requires far less cleaning and picks up less dirt so it is usually the camera I take out with me on the spur of the moment also it seems to be far more resilient than the 20D (e.g. the 20D has a flimsy CF cover that moves around and creaks in the grip). 8+ Mpixels brings out a lot more detail on my macro shots especially I've noticed on insect compound eyes... |
The reason your D30 gets less dirty is also the reason why it was so much less sensitive and accurate. |
Gil, could you please expand upon that statement. For us 20D owners who never had a D30, what is the reason our cameras get more dirt on the sensor? |
Most dust on the sensor gets there because of the fact that there is some electrostatic magnetism going on... the first sensors generated less electrostatic fields and also retained less magnetism when off, so when the camera was open, particles were less "attracted". I did not come up with that one myself! On the down side, they were far less sensitive. |
Thanks. That helps to explain things a bit. There has been some dispute about whether the 20D is really more prone to the dust problem. It being my first DSLR I have no comparison experience and was left wondering.
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06/18/2005 04:14:31 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by Gil P:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by Gil P:
Originally posted by aled:
I'm still using my old D30. Recently bought a 20D and the difference in functionality is negligible, performance obviously has improved. I have noticed that the D30 sensor requires far less cleaning and picks up less dirt so it is usually the camera I take out with me on the spur of the moment also it seems to be far more resilient than the 20D (e.g. the 20D has a flimsy CF cover that moves around and creaks in the grip). 8+ Mpixels brings out a lot more detail on my macro shots especially I've noticed on insect compound eyes... |
The reason your D30 gets less dirty is also the reason why it was so much less sensitive and accurate. |
Gil, could you please expand upon that statement. For us 20D owners who never had a D30, what is the reason our cameras get more dirt on the sensor? |
Most dust on the sensor gets there because of the fact that there is some electrostatic magnetism going on... the first sensors generated less electrostatic fields and also retained less magnetism when off, so when the camera was open, particles were less "attracted". I did not come up with that one myself! On the down side, they were far less sensitive. |
Thanks. That helps to explain things a bit. There has been some dispute about whether the 20D is really more prone to the dust problem. It being my first DSLR I have no comparison experience and was left wondering. |
well all the newer dSLR's are more or less equaly prone, I had dust problems after the very first usage of my 1DsMkII so don't feel to bad...and don't be afraid of that "compressed gaz" bogeyman...I use it all the time! (with some precautions of course!!) |
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06/18/2005 04:23:54 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
...
And I'd like to see Canon move max flash sync speed from 1/250 to 1/500.
... |
I wonder if this is possible with current CMOS sensors? Strangely, the D70 (which has a CCD sensor) has a 1/500 flash sync (which is really nice to have), but the D2X (CMOS sensor!) has only 1/250 sync, in this pro model.
Weird stuff, and a big downside for photogs shooting in bright sunlight with fill flash. Ken Rockwell says he's prefers the D70 over the D2X for mainly this reason.
Ken, I'll trade you my D70 for your D2X, as a favor to you. :)
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06/18/2005 04:46:31 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by skylen:
Originally posted by coolhar:
...
And I'd like to see Canon move max flash sync speed from 1/250 to 1/500.
... |
I wonder if this is possible with current CMOS sensors? Strangely, the D70 (which has a CCD sensor) has a 1/500 flash sync (which is really nice to have), but the D2X (CMOS sensor!) has only 1/250 sync, in this pro model.
Weird stuff, and a big downside for photogs shooting in bright sunlight with fill flash. Ken Rockwell says he's prefers the D70 over the D2X for mainly this reason.
Ken, I'll trade you my D70 for your D2X, as a favor to you. :) |
Flash sync speed on-camera is really a non issue, using the 580EX or 550EX flash and setting the Flash unit to High Speed Sync you can use the flash with ANY Shutter speed... |
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06/18/2005 04:57:09 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by skylen:
Originally posted by coolhar:
...
And I'd like to see Canon move max flash sync speed from 1/250 to 1/500.
... |
I wonder if this is possible with current CMOS sensors? Strangely, the D70 (which has a CCD sensor) has a 1/500 flash sync (which is really nice to have), but the D2X (CMOS sensor!) has only 1/250 sync, in this pro model.
Weird stuff, and a big downside for photogs shooting in bright sunlight with fill flash. Ken Rockwell says he's prefers the D70 over the D2X for mainly this reason.
Ken, I'll trade you my D70 for your D2X, as a favor to you. :) |
Shutter sync speed is all about the shutter's ability to be completely open during the flash. Has nothing to do with the film/sensor the image is being recorded on.
When a shutter speed is set at a speed at or below the sync speed, the shutter is completely open when the flash fires.
At shutter speeds faster than they sync speed, the shutter is not completely open when the flash fires and a portion of the shot will be dark. Basically, the rear curtain of the flash starts to close before the front curtain is completely across the frame.
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06/18/2005 05:16:07 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by doctornick:
Flash sync speed on-camera is really a non issue, using the 580EX or 550EX flash and setting the Flash unit to High Speed Sync you can use the flash with ANY Shutter speed... |
I have shot some with the 580 using High Speed sync but didn't think the results were as good as when shooting at 250 or less. Admittedly I need more experience to get the most out of the 580, but my initial feeling was that High Speed Sync was limiting.
Originally posted by spazmo99:
Shutter sync speed is all about the shutter's ability to be completely open during the flash. Has nothing to do with the film/sensor the image is being recorded on.
When a shutter speed is set at a speed at or below the sync speed, the shutter is completely open when the flash fires.
At shutter speeds faster than they sync speed, the shutter is not completely open when the flash fires and a portion of the shot will be dark. Basically, the rear curtain of the flash starts to close before the front curtain is completely across the frame. |
So to get a higher flash sync speed Canon would have to use a better grade of shutter. Am I understanding this correctly?
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06/18/2005 05:27:17 PM · #47 |
Is it possible to elminate the shutter from a digital camera by turning the sensor 'on' and 'off' to capture an image? This would be instead of having the sensor always 'on' and controling the exposure length with a shutter. It would yeild a 'perfect' shutter, if possible, in that all of the sensor would be 'exposed' for the same time duration.
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06/18/2005 05:54:08 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by w24x192:
Is it possible to elminate the shutter from a digital camera by turning the sensor 'on' and 'off' to capture an image? This would be instead of having the sensor always 'on' and controling the exposure length with a shutter. It would yeild a 'perfect' shutter, if possible, in that all of the sensor would be 'exposed' for the same time duration. |
You would still need to use a shutter to control the F stop value.
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06/18/2005 06:43:13 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by kyebosh:
You would still need to use a shutter to control the F stop value. |
I thought the iris was in the lens. What does the shutter have to do with controlling the aperture?
Message edited by author 2005-06-18 18:43:41.
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06/18/2005 06:44:18 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by kyebosh:
You would still need to use a shutter to control the F stop value. |
NO, that's solely a function of the lens. |
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