Are voters LOOKING at the images?

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/15/2005 12:03:17 PM · #26

Originally posted by amber:

Have you actually read what I actually said? I said that I vote on the ones that grab my attention on the FIRST viewing...then I go back to the others - why is that so hard to understand? Am i typing in english and it is being translated in to Urdu? I never said some images do not deserve to be voted on...

I have read what you typed and have read what you typed between the lines and you said twice that you vote on the images you like...

06/15/2005 12:04:23 PM · #27

UH OH. Should the name of this thread be changed to: "Are people actually READING the posts before they quote?"

Hope this doesn't get too ugly. Just wanted raise the awareness of voters a little.

Message edited by author 2005-06-15 12:05:50.

06/15/2005 12:06:24 PM · #28

Originally posted by amber:

Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by amber:
Forgot to say - the reason I tend to look at the Thumbnails is that I start voting by scrolling through the images. Then I place some votes, but then the screen keeps going back to the images I haven't voted on, even only after voting on say five images. I get so frustrated at seeing the same images that I do not want to vote on that I resort to the thumbnails...if that makes any sense?

What are you doing selectively voting anyway? That's really not the spirit of these challenges.. I hate to hear people say "Images I don't want to vote on".. If they come up, vote on them.

Kirbic, I'm with you.. get rid of the thumbnails. Also, get rid of *any* way to go in and selectively choose an image during voting, until you've voted fully.

And I hate to have people assume things without all the facts. On my FIRST view through the images I vote on the ones that 'grab' me...then I do a second viewing..if I want to pass on an image till later, that's what I'll do...if the images I pass on till the second viewing keep coming up in the scroll I will resort to the thumbs. If I don't have time to vote on all the images then I don't...the rule says you only have to vote on 20 %. I reguarly do way more than is required and I resent being told I don't act in the spirit of the challenge...I never give below a 4, I joined the critique club, I regulary give comments...so my conscience is clear..thanks a lot.

Well, make that clearer in the original post then.
I still don't understand your method.. the spirit is still, IMO, being abused by voting primarily for "images that grab you".
That's all I'm saying.. I'm not saying you're evil for doing so, you've just developed a way of voting given the methods available to you.
I'm just saying these methods would be better off having done away with.

Although to be fair, nobody's suggested getting rid of non-voted images coming back up for voting all the time.

Don't know how easy/hard that would be to code, and I still say that it's not a method I'd like to see from people.

Message edited by author 2005-06-15 12:10:24.

06/15/2005 12:09:43 PM · #29

Originally posted by TooCool:

Originally posted by amber:
Have you actually read what I actually said? I said that I vote on the ones that grab my attention on the FIRST viewing...then I go back to the others - why is that so hard to understand? Am i typing in english and it is being translated in to Urdu? I never said some images do not deserve to be voted on...

I have read what you typed and have read what you typed between the lines and you said twice that you vote on the images you like...

You read what I typed between the lines - what's that are you psychic? A psychiatrist?
I clearly said -'On my FIRST view through the images I vote on the ones that 'grab' me...then I do a second viewing..if I want to pass on an image till later, that's what I'll do...if the images I pass on till the second viewing keep coming up in the scroll I will resort to the thumbs. If I don't have time to vote on all the images then I don't...the rule says you only have to vote on 20 %. '

I really resent being told I do something when I don't.

KaDi

06/15/2005 12:15:04 PM · #30

Translation: I votes the decision in me to in the image 1st scenery holds me.

Amber, turns out it wasn't Urdu, but Chinese.... :-)

Edit to remove Computer code that should have been Chinese Characters.

Message edited by author 2005-06-15 12:15:52.

06/15/2005 12:15:11 PM · #31

Well, make that clearer in the original post then.
I still don't understand your method.. the spirit is still, IMO, being abused by voting primarily for "images that grab you".
That's all I'm saying.. I'm not saying you're evil for doing so, you've just developed a way of voting given the methods available to you.
I'm just saying these methods would be better off having done away with.

I was clear, it was your understanding that was not.

For the LAST time - I vote for the ones that grab me in MY FIRST VIEWING - I don't know how to say it any clearer? FIRST implies I do a SECOND and A THIRD - sometimes I do FIVE or SIX rounds of voting...then I review my votes and change them if i feel it appropriate Where in GOD'S name am i abusing the spirit of the site?

06/15/2005 12:22:33 PM · #32

Oh, how I wish Ken Priest were online to lighten this up a little:)

06/15/2005 12:25:40 PM · #33

Originally posted by amber:

Well, make that clearer in the original post then.
I still don't understand your method.. the spirit is still, IMO, being abused by voting primarily for "images that grab you".
That's all I'm saying.. I'm not saying you're evil for doing so, you've just developed a way of voting given the methods available to you.
I'm just saying these methods would be better off having done away with.

I was clear, it was your understanding that was not.

For the LAST time - I vote for the ones that grab me in MY FIRST VIEWING - I don't know how to say it any clearer? FIRST implies I do a SECOND and A THIRD - sometimes I do FIVE or SIX rounds of voting...then I review my votes and change them if i feel it appropriate Where in GOD'S name am i abusing the spirit of the site?

Sorry, but you really don't need to get so defensive. I'm 100% understanding what you are saying, and I still don't agree with it.. but.. we'll just have to agree to disagree. Your method of voting is actually far more time consuming than it would be to just vote the images that come up in order in the first place. Your method is against the spirit of voting IN MY OPINION.. because you're putting emphasis on images that you believe are stronger than the others for votes, instead of letting randomness take its course. Sure, you may go back for more voting passes, but honestly, you're putting yourself in a position where you may run out of time, or get distracted, or some other thing, and miss voting on many images. You say that you only *need* 20% because of the rules.. but honestly, if you're only going to vote 20% and think that's fine because "the rules say so".. IMO, you're better off not voting, especially with your method where you hunt and peck "Images that grab you"..(and yes, I realize you probably vote *far* more than 20% most of the time, but you *did* bring this up)
my advice is to just take the time in the first place, vote on every image that comes up as you can, and vote on as many as you can during the week. If you miss a few "grabbing" images, so be it.. you'll probably see them in the top 20 or top 50 at the end of the challenge anyway, and it can be a really nice pleasurable surprise to see an image you miss ribbon once in awhile.

Still.. like I said.. the way voting is set up now lets people vote in many different ways, (even if I don't agree with them), and I would like to see a few of those ways being "discontinued" if you will. No more thumbs, no ability to pass over images during voting, no voting box at the top of the image.. etc.

This has nothing to do with *you* personally amber.. but if this site really does want to focus on anonymous, random voting.. then it needs to take steps to ensure that this is what is happening.

Message edited by author 2005-06-15 12:27:22.

riot

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Helios 40-1 85mm f/1.5

06/15/2005 12:28:03 PM · #34

Originally posted by amber:

If I don't have time to vote on all the images then I don't...I resent being told I don't act in the spirit of the challenge...I never give below a 4

So, you vote selectively unless you "have time" to vote on all the images, and you only use half of the voting scale, and you feel this is in the spirit of the challenge??

06/15/2005 12:32:18 PM · #35

The images I tend to vote for rarely come in the top three actually..Look at my favourites and you'll see - when I say 'grab' I mean I can think of a vote there and then..sometimes I can't decide and need more time that's where the second third etc views come in....You can honestly say you have voted for every single image in the 59 challenges you have entered? Based on your voting and correct me if I am wrong that would be an average of 152 votes per challenge?

06/15/2005 12:36:03 PM · #36

Originally posted by riot:

Originally posted by amber:
If I don't have time to vote on all the images then I don't...I resent being told I don't act in the spirit of the challenge...I never give below a 4

So, you vote selectively unless you "have time" to vote on all the images, and you only use half of the voting scale, and you feel this is in the spirit of the challenge??

what the hell is selectively? We ALL vore selectively.
Only use half the voting scale? Yes that's right I rarely give a below 4 as I don't think many images here deserve it - others might be happy to dole out the 1's even to ribbon winners - not me so I will not apologise for that.
What's this pick on Amber night?

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Nikon

06/15/2005 12:40:09 PM · #37

Originally posted by amber:

When I vote, I vote 100% on the challenge (with a few exceptions due to time constraints). Lately, I haven't voted at all because I've not had the time to really put a decent effort into it, and I'd rather not vote at all than do it sloppily, or just to get that 20% in. This is my decision, and I stand by it. When the summer is over, and I start having a lot more free time, then my voting will start reflecting that.

I wasn't suggesting that the images you were voting would always come in the top three.. I said "occasionally".. and I did state "top 20" or "top 50". This is, generally, where most images that one can find easier to vote on turn out.. images that are more difficult to vote on generally end up with much lower scores because people *don't* take the time to vote, and end up flying through voting (or not voting at all on them).

Also, trying to calculate "votes per challenge" is rather silly, since I'll do 100% on one challenge, and 0% on the other ;)

So, this is my last post, and the last time I'll say it. This site wants voting to be as anonymous and random as possible, yet it doesn't set up voting to be so.. ALL I want to see are things changed a bit to put the spirit of voting as close to the intentions of the site as they can be.

Until then, by all means.. vote however you like. I might not like it, and have no problems saying so.. but I actually don't expect you to obey me or anything. All I ask is that you take a few minutes out of your day to listen, (instead of just being defensive or trying to turn it back on me somehow), and read what I've said, and maybe think about it..

that's all.

Good day.

Apple iPhone

06/15/2005 12:40:16 PM · #38

no... i dont vote selectively..... i start at the top corner, and vote during the time i have... then when i can go back i start in the top corner again...as they come to my moniotr... no i dont NOT vote on one... I vote for it knowing i can and sometimes do go back to it to change the vote

Originally posted by amber:

Originally posted by riot:

Originally posted by amber:
If I don't have time to vote on all the images then I don't...I resent being told I don't act in the spirit of the challenge...I never give below a 4

So, you vote selectively unless you "have time" to vote on all the images, and you only use half of the voting scale, and you feel this is in the spirit of the challenge??

what the hell is selectively? We ALL vore selectively.
Only use half the voting scale? Yes that's right I rarely give a below 4 as I don't think many images here deserve it - others might be happy to dole out the 1's even to ribbon winners - not me so I will not apologise for that.
What's this pick on Amber night?

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

06/15/2005 12:40:51 PM · #39

Everyone votes the way they vote for whatever reasons. There is no right or wrong way as it is very subjective.

kaelva

Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D

Konica Minolta AF 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6(D) DT

06/15/2005 12:45:16 PM · #40

The objective of the challenge is to have everyone vote on all the photos submitted. Otherwise it's just an unfair contest where people start favoritizing certain pictures. When I vote I wait until there are no more interferences of the day and i can sit there and go through each picture. They make it really easy for that to be done. Not doing so is an unfair waste of time to people who actually really care about others opinions.

Message edited by author 2005-06-15 12:49:23.

JunieMoon

Sony Alpha a7 II

Sony FE 3.5-5.6/28-70 mm OSS

06/15/2005 12:48:03 PM · #41

The problems would be solved if you voted on every image. So far, the last three challenges I've voted on have been 100%. I know we are all pressed for time, but if you enter the challenge, you should vote 100%. I also watch the monitor and try to get at least a 25% rate on comments.

eqsite

Nikon D7100

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

06/15/2005 12:50:04 PM · #42

Originally posted by kaelva:

If you aren't going to vote on all the pictures, you should take the time to complain about people who do. The objective of the challenge is to have everyone vote on all the photos submitted.

From the site faq:
Do I have to vote on all the entries in a challenge? No, but you must vote on 20% in order for your votes to be counted. You will be notified on your voting page as well as your home page if you have not fulfilled this requirement. If there are too many images for you to vote on, try to vote on your first 20%.

Message edited by muckpond - keeping discourse civil.

06/15/2005 12:51:23 PM · #43

AMEN!

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

06/15/2005 12:51:54 PM · #44

sorry.. I know I said last post, but just needed to make this clear.

I'm not of the opinion that one *has* to vote 100%.. honestly, if all you can make it through during the week is 20%.. but you are voting consistently and taking your time doing so (and doing it as each image comes up), then great! That's wonderful. If you do 50%.. even better. 100%.. that's great too.

It's not the amount that concerns me. It's the methods. That is all :)

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

06/15/2005 01:05:13 PM · #45

Originally posted by kirbic:

IMO we should do away with the thmbnail view for images that have not been voted on. It provides a simple way to defeat the "randomized" presentation order, which in turn means that images that have attractive thumbs get more votes.

Indeed. I've suggested exactly this many times in the past. Only once you have voted on an image will it's thumbnail be listed in a summary page.

On another note I'd also LOVE LOVE LOVE the ability, once having voted, to select an image to which I gave a 5 and have it cycle me through all the other images I voted a 5 to so I could review my scores.

I vote in stages, rough sort, then proper vote and then fine tune and once you have voted on an image you can no longer move quickly from image to image to edit your votes.

You have to open each one again from the thumb.

06/15/2005 01:10:07 PM · #46

So are we all saying that it would be better if we could see the thumbs, but not be able to enlarge them nor start voting from the thumb page?

And that the only way to vote should be to view full size images randomly on calibrated monitors, with the voting numbers below the image only?

I think this is how I would like to see it. I think the 20% rule compells some people to vote on enough images to get their votes counted. I must admit that when I was a newbie here, I did this. If it were impossible to pick and choose the images you vote on from the thumbs, that variable would be eliminated.

Sorry to see this thread deteriorate to the level of personal attacks. But the emotions expressed just validate that this process might be improved.

Roxanne

06/15/2005 01:17:38 PM · #47

P.S. As this thread has taken the direction of Website Suggestions, instead of Challenge Results, how does one direct these great suggestions to the powers that be?

smilebig4me1x

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi