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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> A Polite way????
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 06/12/2005 08:05:04 PM · #1
I take a lot of pictures out at the barn and under normal circumstances I wouldn't think about charging for them, I do it for the experience and such. Not a big deal. I usually make people CDs with the shots on them, again, not a big deal, I have a ton of CDs here that I got at a great price.

Now a few have offered me a few dollars for my time for the CD and that's fine but my question is when they ask me to take pictures of them, usually the kids and I'm taking extra time to do just that I decided to put the shots up at a site where they can order prints or the likes at a very small profit to me for my time in taking them, editing, if needed and uploading time. You also have to pay if you wish to download the shot. That I have no control on the price, the site sets it.

A couple of the parents have come to me asking that if they provide the CD would I burn the images for them so they can print them when they want. Normally this would not be a problem if I had just taken the pictures for fun, but I feel that when I specifically asked to take pictures, I should get something back for my time, right? The whole barn works on a Co-op idea, you scratch my back, I give you something in return type thing but most of these parents don't have services that I could use. So what would be a polite way to let them know that should their child ask me to take pictures they can expect to pay for the final pictures? I don't want to make the situation uncomfortable but I can't just keep giving away my services either.

Deannda
 06/12/2005 08:11:00 PM · #2
why not print out a short list of your services and prices and keep several copies with you. then when someone asks you to take photos or burn cd's you can say..."i would love to! here's a list of my prices."
 06/12/2005 08:27:52 PM · #3
Maybe the barn co-op could offer credits to you for your services, so that you could get something of use to you in return.
 06/12/2005 08:35:23 PM · #4
Business is business.. People will respect you and your work much more if you charge for it. I've seen your work; its worth paying for. Make the deal in advance. with experience, you'll learn how to price and more importantly decide where the limits for your services fall.
 06/12/2005 08:58:50 PM · #5
Originally posted by sher9204:
why not print out a short list of your services and prices and keep several copies with you. then when someone asks you to take photos or burn cd's you can say..."i would love to! here's a list of my prices."


I like this idea but also have seen it done on business cards - one side who you are and contact info, other side rates. May be easier to carry around.


06/13/2005 07:34:50 AM · #6
why not print out a thumb nail page and tell them they can order prints from you???
 06/13/2005 07:43:11 AM · #7
Originally posted by notonline:
why not print out a thumb nail page and tell them they can order prints from you???


This is how I got back into photography. I used to go to all the karate tournaments, I would shoot all I could of our people competing. Print thumbnail sheets with the file number, put in a notebook with order forms/prices/business cards. I kept the pricing down to replacement cost plus a little for time. Worked well and no complaints.
 06/13/2005 10:17:00 AM · #8
Originally posted by notonline:
why not print out a thumb nail page and tell them they can order prints from you???


For me it's more a time thing. I have the barn chores, the house chores, the business, soon the merchant's association. It's just easier and faster to upload them and send them a link via email. Then they can order what they want and I don't have to worry about collecting and connecting with them for that matter. I see most of these people at the barn almost every day but sometimes I might not see someone for weeks.

I don't know, maybe I'll just take the shots down for now, print them out on a thumbnail and give that to the parents with a price sheet and a note telling them that from now on if the child specifically asks to have shots taken there will be a charge for my time, otherwise, if I'm just taking shots and goofing around, no charge for my time, but always a charge for CDs and prints either way.

Deannda
Have to find the best way to approach this
 06/13/2005 10:27:19 AM · #9
Well it depends if you find taking pics of the kids a waste of time if you dont get paid for it. A parent could argue that the kid asked to have their pic taken but didnt take into consideration whether the parent wanted to pay for them. I have a hazy recollection of something about oral contracts with minors and that could be an issue if a parent wanted to argue about your charges.

I dont see anything wrong with putting up the prints on a website and letting people purchase them. If they want them, great, if they dont, then better luck next time. The only other thing is to ask the parent first and not the child. I think forcing parents to pay for prints because their kid asked is just going to put off a lot of people. If they go to the barn often then they are potential repeat customers and that's what you want. Similiarly if they ask for a CD then charge them for that.

I'm not sure of your method but a lot of event photographers will shoot a day's worth of pictures and upload them for prints. They have a code for each day and will hand out a business card to potential customers with the code on the back. Again, if they sell, great, if they dont, better luck next time.
 06/13/2005 10:34:16 AM · #10
I don't find taking the shots a waste of my time, it's great experience. This is not event shooting and several of the parents have asked me to do prints for them, that is why I set up the site to look at them. But after seeing the prices I set, which are much lower than DPCPrints, MUCH, MUCH lower, they are still put off because they know they can go to Walmart or someplace like that and get them even cheaper or print them out at home and that's fine too but my problem is that I'm too nice. I never really charged anyone anything for the stuff before, would just burn the CD and let it go. But I've been doing this for over a year now and would like to start getting something back for my time since it's becoming even more valuable to me. I have a very full schedule at times and feel I should start being reimbursed for my efforts.

I'm not trying to force the parents to do anything, sorry if I gave that impressions.

Deannda
Seem to be giving off a lot of wrong impressions these days
 06/13/2005 10:49:18 AM · #11
not sure I understand the entire process your doing but I think this is one way you could approach it...if you have the means that is...

I would take the picture and maybe print out a small image (3x5?) and give it as a sample to the child...usually they are content with that. Include a price sheet for reprints in case the parents do want more, you could even have them mailed to the person if you don't think you will be seeing them anytime soon (of course this adds to the price) or they could just go to the website.

You will have the ever dreaded parent that doesn't want any other prints but runs to WalMart or where ever and copies the image on their machines, this would be hard to get around unless you have a copyright stamp on the back.

Good luck with it.
 06/13/2005 10:56:10 AM · #12
I think the part that gave me that idea was "So what would be a polite way to let them know that should their child ask me to take pictures they can expect to pay for the final pictures?" meaning if the kid asks and you take the pics that the parent has to pay for it.

I can understand about the printing from walmart thing being cheaper and have had similar issues with it myself. If you are fine with giving away full size images on a CD then just charge them for the CD. Take into account how many pictures are on the CD and how many you think will be printed and use the cost of walmart's printing and add what you think is reasonable to that price. If you're not looking at making a large chunk of profit then do it reasonable to entice repeat customers.

If they have the attitude that they can get cheaper at Walmart or can do it themselves with a camera then fine, let them say no. It's cheaper to make your own burgers but people still pay 5 dollars for a big mac at mcdonalds or more for a cup of coffee.

What you are selling is captured moments and memories and not just prints. If they are too cheap to see that then that's their problem.

Message edited by author 2005-06-13 11:00:40.
 06/13/2005 11:03:20 AM · #13
Sounds like your time is very valuable, and they are asking for you to give of your time so that they can save money on prints. What would they say if you showed up at their workplace and asked them to give you a freebie on their own time?

I would approach it like this: I'd Make an announcement that I really enjoy taking pictures of the kids, and I don't mind helping them save a buck by burning discs for them; however, all this picture taking and disc burning is beginning to eat into my quality time. I'd announce that I'm offering one more free disc for each kid, and after that I'll either have to charge a small fee or trade services for the disc. (Example, the kid cleans 3 stalls per disc burned.)

06/13/2005 11:30:57 AM · #14
Remember, they are not really paying you for the paper and ink to make the picture, nor are they really paying you for the plastic of the CD. Though they DO pay for those things also, they are minor costs relative to what they are ACTUALLY paying you for. They are paying you for your time, talent, equipment, experience, and for being there such that you can capture that moment in time in a photograph. Those factors, in the end, are far more valuable than the pennies for paper, ink, or CDs. If you weren't there, there would be no pictures for them to have at all. So don't forget to take that into account when you think about if you want to charge, and how much you want to charge.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Doug
06/13/2005 11:38:08 AM · #15
"I'd love to take pics of your kid" or "Oh I'd love to put those pics on CD for you" - "BUT" am i pretty busy right now" or "That has gotten to be quite expensive"....'

'Here is a CD, can you burn those pics for me?' "With all teh CD's i've been burning for folks my CD burner is acting up, worn out. i have to buy a new one. I'm gonna have to start charging for burning CDs to pay for it " Ha Ha and smile.

Once a person or two pays, and you can always put a a few shots at 8x10 ina frame...then you can tell them "I used to do it for free, but it became like a job. I still do it, but have to charge a nominal fee now to cover my time and equipment"
 06/13/2005 12:26:27 PM · #16
Thank you everyone for your responses, they are greatly appreciated. This is the email I sent out the parents and kids:

Hello, if you are receiving this email it means I created an album for you on xxxxxxxxx. I went back in and reset the prices on the prints and such. The site had preset them and I never looked at them that closely.

I love taking pictures of all of you, your kids and the horses but time constraints (and a lousy printer) keep me from printing quality prints out for you. I'm really sorry for any inconvenience this may cause you. If you don't wish to order any prints and would just like a CD burned with the files I would be happy to do that as well but there would be a $5 charge for my time for the burning process. I will provide the CD.

Also, sometimes the kids are asking me to take pictures of them and their horses specifically (though normally I ask them, LOL) but if they do ask me to take the time to take the pictures I will have to clear it with the parents first because there would be a charge for my time if I'm asked to do the picture taking. So please, tell you kids or if you are reading this, I'm taking pictures all the time and there are plenty of everyone so you don't need to ask, it's my pleasure taking them and then only if your parents want some copies we can go from there.

I hate even bringing this up but my time is becoming more and more sparse and valuable, especially now that I'm taking on duties with the Elmira Heights Merchant's association and it's just so much easier for me to upload the pictures to the site and go from there. That way if you want them, great, if not, no harm, no foul. I set the prices to the same as if I would print them for you.

I want to thank everyone for allowing me to use you for models and learning over the past year and for your patience in waiting for me to get it all together. I've got some new software that is helping me organize and edit the pictures much more quickly.

Deannda


Thanks again everyone!

Deannda
 06/13/2005 12:39:26 PM · #17
Very tactfully done. No doubt, you'll still have some parents that will be unhappy, but you can't please everybody all the time, right? Let us know what the response is.
 06/13/2005 01:21:44 PM · #18
Very nicely said. If anyone is upset, they were just using you for a free ride anyway, so don't worry about them. Sounds like you have a really good head on your shoulders and you should go really far. Good luck.
 06/13/2005 01:38:51 PM · #19
They're getting off really really super cheap considering you're charging $5. If people persist in complaining, feel free to ignore them and dont' feel bad.
 06/13/2005 04:17:17 PM · #20
Originally posted by Neuferland:
... I will provide the CD.



Looks great and reads very well. I think you should maybe add something in this section to cover WHY you will be providing the CD, maybe something like, "due to variations in CD types and quality, I cannot guarantee information written to customer provided CDs so I will provide the CD myself." It may seem petty but this way you could explain why and cover your rear-end at the same time.

Just a thought. good luck with it all.
 06/13/2005 04:31:02 PM · #21
if it's mostly for fun, then I would charge a minimal fee of $10 for the CD and the time it takes to burn it, then I would charge $1 for each photo I put on the CD that is taken upon request.
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