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06/10/2005 09:32:04 AM · #1 |
I am not really concerned with the final score my pics get, but getting caught up in all the discussions about how and why people vote the way they do lately has got me thinking. So with the last three challenges I have watched very closely the scores on my entries and I have come to a conclusion:
The people that vote very early (as in as soon as a challenge is released) tend to vote either very high or very low and very little in between. This seems to cement the trend or at least cap the highest a photo will achieve without very drastic voting by the rest.
For example: When I saw the score for my framed entry the first morning of voting it was right at 4.000. So overnight it was voted low. However, since that time it has steadily creeped up and has gotten some great/favorable comments and it seems the average vote since the first day has been 5 or above. But to pull it up from the initial 4 it would need 8's or above consistently.
Second example: My construction score after the first night of voting was below 4. Since then it has gotten all favorable comments and votes averaging 5 or above but again to pull it up from the 3.3 is very dificult and it now sits at 4.11xxx something.
Anyone else notice this? To try and counter this I voted on construction as soon as it opened. All the people who showed 1 vote and a score of 8 right at the beginning - well, you are welcome.
So what is it with you early voters?
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06/10/2005 09:34:46 AM · #2 |
I hope one of the good comments was from me. I keep getting bad replies about my comments lol.
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06/10/2005 09:42:53 AM · #3 |
What the initial votes are do not affect your average as much as you think. Just because the first votes are low or high, you are not really locked in. Look at this:
1, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10
Say this is the sequence of votes. According to your explanation this would be a likely scenerio and those 10's would have a tough time pulling you from a ditch. But how is this different than:
10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 1
Same average, different voting order, and in this case it is the 1 that is pulling you away. So I suppose it isn't the initial votes you should be concerned about, but the number of votes that are not consistant with your average. If that number is too high then yea, there is a problem with the voters on your picture.
Message edited by author 2005-06-10 09:43:19. |
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06/10/2005 10:08:16 AM · #4 |
I vote from 1-10, only really bad pictures get 1, and only pictures that make me go WOW get 10,
if a picture fits the challenge and is not really bad, then it will get 5-7, if it's good it gets 7-8, an excellent picture gets 9, if a picture barely fits the challenge but is good it still only gets 3-5, but if the picture neither fits the challenge or is any good, then it's 1-3 :)
my votes usually goes this way
1= 1-3%
2= 1-5%
3= 5-10%
4= 10-20%
5= 10-30%
6= 10-30%
7= 5-20%
8= 1-10%
9= 1-5%
10 = <1% (only 1-3 images per challenge, sometimes none)
and I try to comment on the pictures I vote low, and I also comment on exeptional images, the mediocre just slip by with 4-6 :) |
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06/10/2005 10:13:48 AM · #5 |
My experience has been that the first few votes are fairly meaningless unless they're all high or low. After 100 votes, you'll have a better sampling of diverse opinions. The score almost alway bottoms out late on the first night after voting starts, then gradually rises throughout the week. Average scores may change very little, but high scores tend to rise steadily, then get an additional boost during the last two days.
From these observations, I conclude that the "enthusiasts" are most willing to stay up late and place early impulse votes, which may be more emotional. Often, they'll click on a thumbnail that catches their eye (the really good and really bad images) and vote on those first, so the scores will be more polarized and the eye-catchers will get a burst of comments.
After the enthusiast votes come the people who just breeze through quickly and either assign "placeholder" votes or vote quickly to "get it over with." If there is such a thing as "retaliation votes," those would also tend to occur on the first day after voting starts as those people seek revenge for their developing low scores. I doubt there are many of these, and they're mostly filtered out anyway, but there are so few votes at this point and the filters haven't kicked in yet, so the effect is multipled.
During the week, you'll get the most considered votes from people who really go through and study each photo carefully. These will be more moderate scores, and the comments will tend to be more detailed. The "placeholder" voters will adjust their scores during this time. On the last day or two, there is a surge of last-minute voters and the scores move a little more dramatically on the high and low end as people bump up their favorites and bury the ones they like the least. |
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06/10/2005 10:22:30 AM · #6 |
Think of it this way. In this population, your shot (for example) is destined to get a 5.5. Now, since there will be a normal distribution around that, you'll get high and low votes. The order they come in is random. If more of the low votes come in first, you'll see a gradual rise; if the high votes come in first, you'll see a drop. In the end, you'll get the same score, assuming a "stable" population, and that you get a representative sample voting.
However, what determines the average vote for any challenge (which impacts your score as well)? I do believe there are a number of factors, including discussion of scoring in the forums, the inevitable "this challenge has great shots", "there are no great shots in this challenge", etc.
I'd like to see D&L do a couple of experiments to see what happens with scores and user satisfaction:
1) Have a "No discussion" challenge (no "voting" discussion of the challenge in the forum once it begins, maybe even before). Might be difficult to pull off, would need to have SC watch carefully for the posts, maybe offer a penalty to those posting, like DQ.
2) Have a "Blind" challenge, where no one can see their scores until the week is up.
I suspect if challenges were run this way, the average scores would go up (and it would free up a lot of time for people too!)
What do you think?
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06/10/2005 10:23:24 AM · #7 |
. Often, they'll click on a thumbnail that catches their eye (the really good and really bad images) and vote on those first, so the scores will be more polarized and the eye-catchers will get a burst of comments
I've looked through the thumbnails myself in voting and found they can be very deceptive..sometimes I see an image in the results and think 'wow! Great image, how did I miss that?' - because the thumbnail can make you miss a really great image - it really is worth scrolling through them all;)
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06/10/2005 10:50:48 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by amber:
...the thumbnail can make you miss a really great image... |
No doubt. ;-)
I'm just saying that a really exceptional landscape (or whatever) can catch your eye even as a thumbnail and prompt you to open it for a closer look. |
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06/10/2005 08:41:54 PM · #9 |
| Wow! What a great, creative image...illustrates the point really well. |
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