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Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/09/2005 08:31:27 PM · #1

Oh those red letters look so bad on my screen.
Black arm band now in place and flag flying at half mast.

Just got the boot on my Construction Challenge shot. UGH

Disqualified for the following reason:

The Gothic Glow action copies the image data onto layers set to
non-normal modes, and uses a high-pass filter. This is not legal in basic editing.

Well drat - I KNOW I have seen it used in basic before and was why I used it.
Didn't try and hide it (was around 5.9 a the time of DQ).

Second part of this post is to make a request again for the following:

I would like to see somewhere on the site, a list of allowable actions, plug-ins, filters, etc. that have been checked and permitted for use in both levels of editing. Some actions do play in the layers in ways we may not see, yet are specifically not allowed when done manually.

I know these would be an administrative burden at first to determine if and what is allowed, but once in place, may take away a lot of needless questions being asked over & over in the forums. A central repository of what can be/can't be used would sure simplify things in my opinion.

For those that have been DQ'd before, how long does it take until

Bummed, but not angry. No one to blame but myself.
Maybe somebody else may benefit from my blunder.

Message edited by author 2005-06-09 20:33:40.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

06/09/2005 08:32:27 PM · #2

Say it aint so, Brad...

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/09/2005 08:34:41 PM · #3

Originally posted by kpriest:

Say it aint so, Brad...

it aint so, Brad...

What did that accomplish? LOL

It is so. Blunder plain & simple.

nico_blue

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

06/09/2005 08:34:44 PM · #4

sorry to hear that brad... i have to say that the photo looks fantastic for a 1.3 mp camera!

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

06/09/2005 08:40:03 PM · #5

That is a bummer Brad. An area for further clarification of allowed/not-allowed would be helpful. Almost like an index or reference page maybe. Perhaps a three column table with the action on the left and a check/no check on the next two for Basic and Advanced ok.

blemt

Nikon D70

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

06/09/2005 08:42:55 PM · #6

Brad, as much as I would love to be able to figure out a way to create this kind of repository there is just no way we can.

We would have to try out every single filter, action, plugin and such for EVERY editing program out there. Plus this doesn't count actions created by users on their own.

There's just physically no way we can. We can't keep up with the possible combinations. All we can do is remind people that they need to double check any action or plugin for legality BEFORE they use it.

If you can recall the image that used Gothic Glow, let us know so we can check it out.

Clara

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

06/09/2005 08:43:02 PM · #7

Originally posted by BradP:

Second part of this post is to make a request again for the following:

I would like to see somewhere on the site, a list of allowable actions, plug-ins, filters, etc. that have been checked and permitted for use in both levels of editing. Some actions do play in the layers in ways we may not see, yet are specifically not allowed when done manually.

I know these would be an administrative burden at first to determine if and what is allowed, but once in place, may take away a lot of needless questions being asked over & over in the forums. A central repository of what can be/can't be used would sure simplify things in my opinion.

This has actually been discussed a couple of times by the SC, and before we can come up with a consensus, another plug-in/filter has been released, and so on and so forth. Okay, that may be an exaggeration, but our concern is that new PI/filters come out so regularly, and can be used in so many combinations, we would need a special SC just to deal with it.

The rule of thumb I follow, and some of the others may chime in and make the translation from "karma-ese" to "understandable," is that when a plug-in or filter copies the information to another layer, and you adjust it somehow, you are in effect creating a multiple exposure. If, however, you just apply it and it does not create another set of data (albeit identical to the "source") it is probably okay.

Clear as mud?

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

06/09/2005 08:44:02 PM · #8

If I hadn't "quoted" I would have beaten clara. :)

Message edited by author 2005-06-09 20:45:18.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/09/2005 08:45:05 PM · #9

Originally posted by BradP:

Originally posted by kpriest:
Say it aint so, Brad...

it aint so, Brad...

What did that accomplish? LOL

I thought it was some quote from an old movie about the Chicago Black Sox in the '30s - but maybe it was just a dream I had. Anyway I should have said "Say it aint so Bad"

Seems like for basic editing, I would stay away actions altogether and restrict use to USM, B/C, H/S not much else. ...but then I've never won a ribbon. ;-)

Don't sweat it Brad. It's not like you'll be featured on the cover of any upcoming tabloid or anything...

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

06/09/2005 08:49:30 PM · #10

I'm cool with it all. No jumping up & down pissing & moaning about any of it.
Within 30 minutes after the challenge started, I received the vadiation request and had a uh-oh sinking feeling.
(had nothing to do with the Mexican food I ate either - that came later)

Whoever requested it, don't feel like you should hide. You did the right thing.

Now to try and figure out how to use those dang layers...

Edit to add:
I forgot perhaps something equally as important - an apology to the Site Council members for adding to their already overflowing workload as it is. Sorry guys & gals.

Message edited by author 2005-06-09 20:58:08.

w24x192

Canon PowerShot S50

06/09/2005 08:52:32 PM · #11

Originally posted by BradP:

Disqualified for the following reason:

The Gothic Glow action copies the image data onto layers set to
non-normal modes, and uses a high-pass filter. This is not legal in basic editing.

Although one wouldn't be copying the information to a new layer, if one were to fade a step, like Levels, and set it to a non-normal mode, like Color Burn, is that legal in basic editing?

EDIT - don't mean to hijack...hope I don't...I'm on your side Mr. P.

Message edited by author 2005-06-09 20:56:11.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

06/09/2005 08:53:35 PM · #12

I realize it would be impossible to create a comprehensive list of aloowable and forbidden filters & actions for both rulesets. I'm not sure, though, why it should be a problem to create a list that specifies exactly which ones have been ruled NOT allowable, when and as images are DQ'd for using them. It could be made perfectly clear that this was nothing more than a list of processes that resulted in DQ, and that the list in NO way implies that any action/filter not on the list was allowable.

1. Fievel's Gothic Glow â�� not legal for basic editing.
2. Joe's Fractal Generator â�� not legal in any challenge.
3. etc etc....

This would be nothing more than a list of processes that have resulted in DQ's being handed out.

Robt.

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/09/2005 08:55:25 PM · #13

Originally posted by w24x192:

Although one wouldn't be copying the information to a new layer, if one were to fade a step, like Levels, and set it to a non-normal mode, like Color Burn, is that legal in basic editing?

Only adjustment layers in normal mode are allowed in basic.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

06/09/2005 08:55:51 PM · #14

Originally posted by w24x192:

Originally posted by BradP:
Disqualified for the following reason:

The Gothic Glow action copies the image data onto layers set to
non-normal modes, and uses a high-pass filter. This is not legal in basic editing.

Although one wouldn't be copying the information to a new layer, if one were to fade a step, like Levels, and set it to a non-normal mode, like Color Burn, is that legal in basic editing?

only normal is allowed in basic

edited -- what mk said :P
I'm just too slow tonight

Message edited by author 2005-06-09 20:56:46.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/09/2005 08:57:37 PM · #15

Sorry you got kicked off the island, Brad.

FWIW, in a sense we already DO list the allowable filters and actions. In Basic Editing, only a few specific filters are allowed, and they're listed (though they may have different names in other applications). In Advanced Editing I think ALL filters and actions are allowed as long as their use doesn't break another rule like removing Major Elements.

If you looked at the steps on the Gothic glow action, you'd see that it copies the image to another layer several times, uses blending modes other than normal, and runs a High Pass filter. Those steps are clearly forbidden in Basic, and I think you'd know better than to do that on your own. I don't see why we'd need a database to tell you that Gothic Glow is illegal when the rules already say you can't use blending modes other than Normal, etc., and you acknowledge that you've read those rules every time you enter.

Sniff, sniff... do you smell an Enquirer headline? ;-)

buzzmom

Panasonic DMC-FZ20

06/09/2005 08:58:23 PM · #16

say it aint so joe was the quote of young white sox fan yelling out to shoeless joe jackson when the news broke of the infamous chicago black sox....it was depicted in the classic movie "eight men out"

whatever the out come brad it was a terrific shot and you should be proud ...no matter what you do with post editing it aint worth bupkiss without a decent shot to start....youre the man bradP...no matter what ken says behind your back!!!!ooops...just kidding

w24x192

Canon PowerShot S50

06/09/2005 09:05:24 PM · #17

Originally posted by karmat:

only normal is allowed in basic

Ok...seemed like a gray area since there is no additional layer to contend with, and no filters used, either.

It almost makes the Basic challenges more challenging than the Advanced...really get to see who shines in the Basic challenges.

CEJ

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

06/09/2005 09:05:51 PM · #18

Hmm...I liked that photo! (honestly) Sorry to see the DQ but I am with you on the list of allowable edits. However, it may be a lot more cumbersome than even might appear at first. I can see why some of the rules are 'vague' to some unless they use PS. For me, I have to stick to the very basics on even some advanced editing challenges simply because I cannot equate what I see as allowed edits (as gleaned from challenge winners) to PI tools. Some are easy (mostly basic) but when it gets to advanced, a lot I don't know how to convert/what is the equivalent to PI so I just don't do stuff to the pics.

Anyway, sorry for the DQ!

Message edited by author 2005-06-09 21:06:55.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

06/09/2005 09:09:19 PM · #19

Originally posted by w24x192:

Originally posted by karmat:

only normal is allowed in basic

Ok...seemed like a gray area since there is no additional layer to contend with, and no filters used, either.

It almost makes the Basic challenges more challenging than the Advanced...really get to see who shines in the Basic challenges.

I'm in total agreement with the above. In general, I spend far MORE time in Photoshop on basic editing challenges, because I always have a very specific visualization of what I want to accomplish, and with most of the editing tools eliminated from my box, as it were, I'm forced to find legal workarounds. It generally seems counterproductive to me, actually. But I have discovered a few tricks along the way, so...

Robt.

Minutia

06/09/2005 09:12:05 PM · #20

Also sorry to hear that. I really like the picture. Anyway, lots of other challenges to shine in.... Darkness maybe?

Jinjit

06/09/2005 09:18:28 PM · #21

I can't believe you just did that! after the time I spent voting and all??? oh man...
this is no way of doing things! don't you know that by now?

BradP got a DQ!! BradP got a DQ !! a better chance to all of us!!!

ok, I admit I only looked for the proper thread to show off my wonderful icon again. I think i'm long passed my bed time....