DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register) 
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Apple dropping G5 (PowerPC) for Intel in 2006
Pages:  
Showing posts 26 - 37 of 37, (reverse)
AuthorThread
 06/06/2005 11:17:55 AM · #26
Originally posted by theSaj:
Because they use BSD as a core and BSD can be compiled to run on a PowerPC or x86 there will be minimal compatibility hit migrating.

What about a copy of Photoshop a user has on CD? Or the thousands of pre-compiled shareware apps out there?
 06/06/2005 11:20:23 AM · #27
Originally posted by muckpond:

all i know is that, whatever chip they use, apple has it all over PCs simply because they're QUIETER!

the iMac i use at work is just a 17" 800mHz dealie, but it's easily the best computer i've ever used.


Sure...but you're talking a mere 800mHz. Intel or AMD could easily release an 800mHz that'd probably run cool enough to touch. But you try to get that up to 2.5ghz,3ghz or 4ghz and it's a different story.

And where as running OSX on a Dell might not excite you. I would not mind being able to dual boot between OSX and XP.

;)

06/06/2005 11:26:08 AM · #28
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by theSaj:
Because they use BSD as a core and BSD can be compiled to run on a PowerPC or x86 there will be minimal compatibility hit migrating.

What about a copy of Photoshop a user has on CD? Or the thousands of pre-compiled shareware apps out there?


Okay, you're not quite getting it. All of those applications (Photoshop, etc.) Are designed to communicate to the OS. So most of the functionality will remain unchanged. The exception, will be some performance hits where they've super-optimized it to the PowerPC. (Mainly the AltiVect processor.) Yes, there will most likely have to be an update released for some and yes - it will be a year before super-optimization occurs.

But as I said...they may not be looking to Intel for their Desktop replacement but perhaps for a new launch of a portable PDA. I mean, I'd love a 6" widescreen PDA that also doubled as a 60gig iPod media player.

Yes folks...I am hoping this is iPoDiA
 06/06/2005 11:31:52 AM · #29
Originally posted by theSaj:
Okay, you're not quite getting it. All of those applications (Photoshop, etc.) Are designed to communicate to the OS. So most of the functionality will remain unchanged. The exception, will be some performance hits where they've super-optimized it to the PowerPC. (Mainly the AltiVect processor.) Yes, there will most likely have to be an update released for some and yes - it will be a year before super-optimization occurs.

No, seriously, I *AM* getting it, I'm a professional application developer. Photoshop and the like will compile down to machine code, which is NOT platform independent. I think you're not quite getting the difference between a web page and what are called "real programs".
 06/06/2005 11:39:57 AM · #30
Paul Thurrot weighs in.
 06/06/2005 11:40:15 AM · #31
Originally posted by theSaj:

Sure...but you're talking a mere 800mHz. Intel or AMD could easily release an 800mHz that'd probably run cool enough to touch. But you try to get that up to 2.5ghz,3ghz or 4ghz and it's a different story.


this "mere" 800mHz runs Adobe CS, After Effects, Final Cut, etc. all without fail and in a pretty zippy manner. my point is that, whatever hocus pocus goes on inside the computer, it easily beats the pants off of my 2GHz PC at home, which sounds like the flight deck of an aircraft carrier.

i'm also sitting next to a dual 1.8GHz G5 that is as silent as could be.

i am not going to get into the technical details because i am woefully unqualified. BUT i will say that Apple's industrial design (inside and outside of the case) has it all over anyone else's. as a dumb user, i know that much.

whether or not this chip business would change that is a different story.

didn't apple allow clones like 10 years ago? that went away REALLY quickly. i highly doubt you'll see anyone else manufacturing apple-compatible hardware anytime soon.
 06/06/2005 12:38:07 PM · #32
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by theSaj:
Okay, you're not quite getting it. All of those applications (Photoshop, etc.) Are designed to communicate to the OS. So most of the functionality will remain unchanged. The exception, will be some performance hits where they've super-optimized it to the PowerPC. (Mainly the AltiVect processor.) Yes, there will most likely have to be an update released for some and yes - it will be a year before super-optimization occurs.

No, seriously, I *AM* getting it, I'm a professional application developer. Photoshop and the like will compile down to machine code, which is NOT platform independent. I think you're not quite getting the difference between a web page and what are called "real programs".


Then bingo has a name-O....

a) as I said, some programs have sections of code highly optimized and they will need to release a patch.

b) guess what...if Photoshop compiles down to machine code...then they already have the tools necessary to release an update because they offer a version for x86 PCs. So they can utilize those resources.

Yes, some programs will have a performance hit. But I am sure Adobe's Photoshop will be one of the software packages optimized before the Apple ever releases (if releases) an x86 based desktop.

*shrug*

06/06/2005 12:46:54 PM · #33
theSaj, let me spell it out for you..

ALL software that is a native PowerPC application will need recompiling.

Any commercial apps you have will either need to be repurchased or at best upgraded.

Any shareware you have will need to be redownloaded, assuming the vendor actually bothers to recompile it and has the right tools.

I'm sorry, but it really doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about. I give up.
 06/06/2005 12:56:59 PM · #34
Originally posted by We1mx3:
I'm considering a Mac Mini for home. Does anyone have one?


Have one at home and use it for my web server. Works fine for that. (why a web server? you figure, 1) what OS out there has fewer hacks and attacks against it and 2) it was cheap!)

Ok, so to add to the stuff being guessed at, let me add a bit to the pot.

This article (Click Here) does a really good job of spilling details.

In short:
1) Apple is thinking of possibly using an emulator that proports not having any lag in its conversions.
2) Apple wants to take advantage of Intel's Pentium D chip that is supposed to disallow copying copyrighted stuff at the motherboard level. This is so Apple can dive into the video arenas easier and have less to worry about copyright protection in the software code it releases.

The article is a good read...check it out...
 06/06/2005 01:41:11 PM · #35
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
theSaj, let me spell it out for you..

ALL software that is a native PowerPC application will need recompiling.

Any commercial apps you have will either need to be repurchased or at best upgraded.

Any shareware you have will need to be redownloaded, assuming the vendor actually bothers to recompile it and has the right tools.

I'm sorry, but it really doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about. I give up.


Paul....

I think you're forgetting THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN OVER NIGHT!!! It's not like Apple will announce such today and ship tomorrow. Most estimates put forth sometime in the later half of 2006. That's a year to a year and a half away. Apple will make sure that the new versions of software will be coded to support such.

Yes, some aspects may have to be emulated. But a lot less than the last time Apple switched processors. At that point, the entire OS had to be designed for a new architecture. This time the OS essentially just needs to be optimized and re-compiled.

There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between re-optimizing and re-compiling code (guess what - game developers do this all the time, how do you think you get games on Xbox, PS2 & Nintendo) as opposed to creating from the ground up. Furthermore, that which they would be re-compiling for (Intel) already has a lot of tools and optimizers available. As opposed to when Mac last switched they moved to an entirely new architecture with very little resources.

In fact, I think the only reason Mac would choose Intel is for that very reason. Intel provides a LOT of resources for compiling and optimizing code. So they're probably take advantage of that strength of Intel. Than a few years later after most everything is x86 courtesy of Intel - they'll have minimal work to hop over to AMD.

But the truth is that such a switch from PowerPC to Intel will be much less intense than from Motorola 6800 to PowerPC:

1. Intel is an existant architecture with a strong base of tools

2. Mac OS is based on BSD which already supports Intel/x86 processors

3. Much of Macintosh hardware is now the same as PC (drives, video cards, etc.)

4. Many of the major software aps (such as Photoshop) are already available for the PC thus these software development companies already have a large amount of the binary code compiled of x86 processors.

5. Software Development cycles move pretty quickly with new versions every 1-2 yrs. With 1+ year lead gap, most major software products will likely have native support by release time.

6. When Apple migrate last time there were NOT re-compilers available. They had to emulate or code from scratch for a brand new platform. That's a LOT different and a LOT more timely/costly than re-compiling and re-optimizing.

- The Saj

Who is not ignorant,...I'm not saying it will be a rose garden but they can pull it off much more easily now than they did last time, in part due to their OS, much more common hardware, and the migration to a well tooled platform. That's all...

06/06/2005 04:50:50 PM · #36
its official...
linky

Adobe seems to be the first to hop on board, which should solve a lot of your problems...
 06/06/2005 04:59:20 PM · #37
Remember - you heard it first straight from the Saj's mouth!

:P

I was really shocked they chose Intel over AMD until I actually thought about the re-compiling issues. Then I realized why it makes total sense. Intel offers much better support and tools for that sort of thing than AMD. And since AMD is compatible with Intel. They can always move over to AMD later. Good strategy.

Message edited by author 2005-06-06 17:00:50.
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 08/24/2025 09:22:25 AM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 08/24/2025 09:22:25 AM EDT.