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05/29/2005 09:37:07 AM · #26 |
A better diet, better rest and venting to a professional can help you tons!
I agree with what those in this thread are saying....therapy is a good thing! Stress can cause depression, and not taking care of it can only make it worse. It doesnt have to be a medicated therapy, it can simply be able to tell a professional (who's been in the same place you are now-meaning schooling and that stress) how you feel.
Visit your medical doctor first so he can rule out medical reasons for your feelings now.
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05/29/2005 10:20:37 AM · #27 |
What good advice you can get at DPC!! I work on the fringes of mental health care and everything you have read here is good....especially consulting your family doctor as a first step. This is really necessary if your anhedonia (they even have a medical word for 'lack of pleasure in life'!) turns to darker thoughts such as self-harm. I guess what you (with guidance) have to work out is whether this is something innate (in which case medication is one way forward)or in response to life events past or present (in which case counselling/therapy/cognitive therapy/a change of situation can also be helpful). In actuality, the distinction is not always very clear and so attacking the problem from all angles is a good option. Also check out whether there is a history of this in your family...often the biggest indicator.
Studying medicine is probably the hardest and most stressful degree out and young adulthood is a period when these sorts of problems often occur. Don't be afraid to contact your director of studies or the equivalent to let them know your situation.....they will have encountered this many times before and it can only help.
Best wishes! Ben |
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05/29/2005 01:21:46 PM · #28 |
First, I am not an alarmist. What Peter posted here appears like the typical state we all find ourselves in different stages of our lives. It is an easy step to attach to it terms which paint a darker picture.
Look, we are all free to interpret life as we feel and here lies the major problem. We are constantly looking to find our purpose. The truth is that there is and there is not a purpose. We try to find out what we are. We never do. We convince ourselves that we are here to make a difference. This is another fallacy. We all build our imperfect world and that is to the best of our abilities. These sand castles have a way of crumbling. We all have the rug swept off beneath our feet. Again, we go back to the convictions that brought us here. If they were not solid our dreams and attitudes fall by the way side.
Disastifaction with life is a constant drone in the human experience. The main cause has all to do with our expectations. Take a look at Zen. The pupil wants to get to the bottom of things. The master tells him that before he questions he should do some simple exercises of counting and to think of nothing but the counting. Counting breaths, to be more precise. After a month, the pupil comes back to the master. There must be a reward here for good counting, yet the master tells him, that more counting is needed. He also tells the pupil not to expect anything out of his exercises but simply to continue and to concentrate on his counting. Eventually, as the mind clears and the counting becomes like a mantra, the pupil stops asking questions. A transformation by removing the element of expectation. How strong is Zen? Very strong. It is a way of life to many.
Of course, you say, but wait, we are in the West. We are born here to expect. And what would our lives be if we didn't? Besides, we all know about certain chemical imbalances which enslaves us to medication.
Well, let me say this to you. If you can imagine that your hand is being burned by the flame of a match and you imagine this truly, then the body will immediately go through the same chemical change just as if were being actually burned. This is is a fact and this is the foundation of positive thinking. Visualize deftly and your visualization will come to fruition. Of course, this power must be used with caution because you may get what you wished for. But then, have no fear because this technique is not easily learned.
The main problem we have has to do with our current understanding of life. If you have a spiritual bend then you have an affinity for faith. But let us rule this out for the present. Let us first determine why it is that we go out of wack.
As we grow we form a template of that which we think we are. How often do we stop to examine if these convictions are solid and enduring or did we simply adapt them from others without validation. If we do not fully understand them then a time will come when contradictions will arise. These times of emotional tumult often change us around for the better or for worse. That fountain called "I" rises with so much confidence that we barely ever stop to question its authencity. We all have around our minds a feature known as censorship. This is to protect us and avoid negative influences. With many, alcohol renders this firewall ineffective. You see, we create a world built on likes and dislikes and we assign certain duties to this firewall. One of the assignments has to do with certain obligations. Being responsible, we feel that it is best to comply with obligations. So, the driving force for some of these feelings which are censored are simply obligation and not pleasure, yet we interpret the obligations as pleasure because that is the noble thing to do. No, problem, we have a censorship that holds back the negative thoughts that would attack this premise.
What happens when the firewall of censorship breaks down or suffers a temporary misfunction? Ah, here we see that obligations were labeled pleasure and so on. Great consternation! Really?
Not so, this is just a warning that we must recalibrate our personality and bring it to peace with our character. This is called introspection. When through we realize that in order for us to survive we must assume a more humble experience in this dance of life. For one thing, just to be aware and be part of this great drama is indeed a miracle. We are visitors that can partake of the mystery of life. In this introspection we will see the folly of many of our dreams and many of our expectations.
You can go to a doctor, but can another person understand you better? I do not think so. Think of yourself as a warrior bent on understanding yourself. Total understanding will never be reached because even the doctors or professionals that treat you are not quite there themselves. Yes, when we fall under depression we at once activate a chemical change but it is reversible if you are able to rise above the importance of the self. There is a higher self that cares not about the ephemeral changes in life. Look at the subject of meditation and how its practice creates a release of chemicals in your brain which induce ecstasy. What I mean to say is that chemical changes do take place as a natural response. This is because that is the nature of the body as it reacts to the brain impulses. In reality, we go through thousands of chemical changes daily: that is life. This is why a sane individual should think twice of digesting a prescribed chemical which is certain to interfere with the natural chemical response between his brain and body.
Some of us are lucky because when these bouts appear we simply go through a transformation that brings us to the other side slightly altered for the better. Others are horrified with their dark outlook and wonder if there is another outlook. Of course there is. There is also the quality of passing time that magically heals. Start with the premise that you are happy to be alive and partake of this experience called life and think of yourself as a visitor. You are not here to solve all of life's problem or bend the will of fate to your liking, no, no: those are monumental task which deny you triumph. If you do not enjoy the very present then take is a hint that desires and expectations need to be reexamined. We are not that complicated and sometimes take on more than we can chew. Back to the drafting board.
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05/29/2005 01:25:34 PM · #29 |
Looks like you have a mild depression. Talk to your doctor right away before it gets worse. You could be cured by a simple drug prescription, but it could be worse, maybe you need a psychologist.
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05/29/2005 01:44:11 PM · #30 |
Just wanted to emphasize the importance of this quote by graphicfunk-
"Imagine that your hand is being burned by the flame of a match and you imagine this truly, then the body will immediately go through the same chemical change just as if were being actually burned"
This lesson I learned awhile back too, and it was a very important lesson, to understand more of how the mind affect our bodies can help us a great deal.
Also I just wanted to add that yes.. I agree with what graphicfunk is saying.. But sometimes some people have a very powerful blockage, and they are not as strong. In some situations medication might be the only answer, but I think it's sad how we overmedicate ourselves these days..
We are even medicating young children with these kind of problems, just don't think that is the right way to go... Easy way, yes.. But actually solving the issue. NO |
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05/29/2005 02:17:27 PM · #31 |
My input here is a non-physcological... more physilogical. Your working in the basement with no light... GO OUT AND SIT IN THE SUN. Lack of natural light can have real physical impact. My friend has a condition that requires having lights in her home with natural spectrums, she becomes so depressed without them that she is suicidal. As a med student you probably already know this condition better than I do.
Also it sounds like a new child is born or come to live. this can also enrage this same condition as many loose the personal interaction with thier sponse due to the extra attention they are not getting and is going to the child. Get over that and take the whole family to the park for some special time.
Eat many vegies and take a good vitamin, A diet high in red meats can also cause depression, as you know already an improper dietary balance can do it too.
I didn't read everything in this thread, I am not a doctor, or a shrink and I speak from my own experience only. School was long and arderous for me and very draining, especially when you work too. Exhaustion is another possible.
You could also go buy a new camera, lens or studio light. |
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05/29/2005 02:25:08 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by sofapez:
My input here is a non-physcological... more physilogical. Your working in the basement with no light... GO OUT AND SIT IN THE SUN. Lack of natural light can have real physical impact. My friend has a condition that requires having lights in her home with natural spectrums, she becomes so depressed without them that she is suicidal. As a med student you probably already know this condition better than I do.
Also it sounds like a new child is born or come to live. this can also enrage this same condition as many loose the personal interaction with thier sponse due to the extra attention they are not getting and is going to the child. Get over that and take the whole family to the park for some special time.
Eat many vegies and take a good vitamin, A diet high in red meats can also cause depression, as you know already an improper dietary balance can do it too.
I didn't read everything in this thread, I am not a doctor, or a shrink and I speak from my own experience only. School was long and arderous for me and very draining, especially when you work too. Exhaustion is another possible.
You could also go buy a new camera, lens or studio light. |
I believe you just combined the stories of two individuals. Jacko was working in the basement and had another child.
Peter is the med student who started this thread.
Just though I'd clarify that.
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05/29/2005 02:25:38 PM · #33 |
| There should be no stigma attached to taking medication for depression or other psychiatric complaints. The mind is a product of the brain. The brain is just another organ and sometimes goes wrong. We would not attempt to treat a heart condition with 'higher thoughts'. I do agree that re-evaluating your ways of thinking can enhance your life but I would go so far as to say this is only possible with a level of effort that can only really come from a reasonably 'well' mind. Sometimes people need a medicinal 'kickstart' to get them on that road to recovery. |
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05/29/2005 02:38:27 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by sofapez:
My input here is a non-physcological... more physilogical. Your working in the basement with no light... GO OUT AND SIT IN THE SUN. Lack of natural light can have real physical impact. My friend has a condition that requires having lights in her home with natural spectrums, she becomes so depressed without them that she is suicidal. As a med student you probably already know this condition better than I do.
Also it sounds like a new child is born or come to live. this can also enrage this same condition as many loose the personal interaction with thier sponse due to the extra attention they are not getting and is going to the child. Get over that and take the whole family to the park for some special time.
Eat many vegies and take a good vitamin, A diet high in red meats can also cause depression, as you know already an improper dietary balance can do it too.
I didn't read everything in this thread, I am not a doctor, or a shrink and I speak from my own experience only. School was long and arderous for me and very draining, especially when you work too. Exhaustion is another possible.
You could also go buy a new camera, lens or studio light. |
I believe you just combined the stories of two individuals. Jacko was working in the basement and had another child.
Peter is the med student who started this thread.
Just though I'd clarify that. |
Woops! then my comment would be for both... Also, Pretty much everyone developes symtoms of, or depressions of one type or another through their life at some point or another. There is nothing to be ashamed of (not directing this at anyone imparticular). Without the downs in life we could not possibly appreciate the ups. I have certainly had my ups and downs, and have suffered from depression more than once. I saw a doctor who counciled as well as medicated. One without the other is only half the treatment needed. (as mentioned, I did not read all the comments here, so I am sure someone else already covered it)
Above all, remember, DPCer's are your friends, they will listen and respond with respect and support you however they can. |
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05/29/2005 02:51:01 PM · #35 |
People with lifelong depression tend towards a great deal of introspection as a natural result, and develop a good deal of strength and resilience just in order to survive. No amount of strength or introspection can alter the effects of, for example, anesthesia entered into your bloodstream - it will have its effect no matter how much you grapple with it, understand its cause and effect, resist it, or analyze it. There are biochemical components, I believe, involved in depression (another other illnesses), that are in the same category. So my two-cents-worth is that while easy over-medicating is of course not the answer, please don't swing to the other extreme and de-value this important part of treatment for many.
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05/29/2005 09:41:23 PM · #36 |
Wow I never expected such a flood of helpful replies, this happy surprise alone might bring me out of the depression lol! And yes, I suppose it is clinical depression. I've always been very healthy mentally and physically, so I was kind of scared/worried when I first felt myself go down; and admitting to myself that I have DEPRESSION wasn't easy. Thank you all for making me realize I'm definitely not alone, and that there are many ways to fix me.
I do believe strongly in natural healing (I grew up in China afterall) but I am very open minded to western medicine as well. Although I'm still somewhat skeptical, I do believe in a creator, and I pray to him/her on this matter. However I'm sure the cure won't come from up there, but by much acceptance and sacrifice on my part.
At this point I'm not opposed to taking medication(if it comes to that). But first I will try breaking free on my own with the things suggested here: Be less mundane, take time to just chill, be more outdoorsy, maybe buy a new cam like Sofapez said lol (I have my eye on a Rebel XT but like always, no cash). Luckily it is summer and I have the time to pursue all that. Some of you suggested helping other people, well I've been considering doing mission work. If those natural remedies don't do any good I will definitely seek professional help.
For all the generous guys and girls who offered to chat with me privately, I'm sincerely grateful. If I can't afford a shrink I know I'll always have my fellow DPCers hehe. You people are the greatest!!!
Message edited by author 2005-05-29 21:56:08.
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05/29/2005 10:04:08 PM · #37 |
Way back in the late sixties I bottomed. Always up and suddenly totally deflated. A friend gave me a valium and here is my account:
I entered the party I had decided not to attend because of my condition. Well, I was glowing with good tidings and above all everything was gorgeous. I mean, regular glasses were scintillating and peoples eyes were so vivid. Most important was my confidence level. It had literally multiplied. Everything looked beautiful and then I touched a girls hand and my, I still recall the experience.
I always analyse my feelings and realized that I am now fizzing just like champagne. I promised to retain the beauty I experienced and wondered why I missed it before or did I become so indrawn as to lose sight of such beauty.
This was a trip and I knew it. I also knew that the chemical state of my body had been altered and that whatever was wrong is being currently masked. That is, when this wears away I will fall back to square one.
Yes I did. But the memory of the experience told me that such beauty I experience was really there if I change my attitude. I then pursued the study of the self.
Well, Peter, we have one thing in common, we were riding high and then we fell. Like you, I was always very up and this was the first time. I feel that one fall does not necessitate a doctor. If it is a persistence thing with a history then professional help is best.
Now, suppose you and I were in a social meet and you revealed your condition. The first thing that we advise is an immediate change of pace. While such simplicity is not delving into the deeper resources of our soul, we do at times snag ourselves and a sudden change brings about incredible results. However, we do not claim defeat until we have verified our condition further. There are times that we fail to smell the roses.
P.S. the friend that gave me valium still takes it. He tells me it takes the edge off. I do not want these chemicals in me.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Message edited by author 2005-05-29 22:07:24. |
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05/29/2005 11:06:37 PM · #38 |
| Peterish...if you find you're in the DC area the end of July.... I know a goofy bunch of DPCers... who will be standing outside at 2 in the morning taking pics... |
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05/29/2005 11:15:45 PM · #39 |
I started taking medication for clinical depression and social anxiety 10 years ago and it dramatically changed my life for the better.
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05/29/2005 11:33:25 PM · #40 |
I am a firm believer that God leads us all through trials that will teach us something that we need to know sooner or later. I had no idea decades ago that the detox process I was going through (chose) would lead to an almost 3 month long affliction of combined flashback and accute paranoia. I could not comprehend why I suddenly experienced the fear of people, heard voices or any of that, and it left almost as quickly as it came upon me.
Within the last 5 years I have had the opportunity to be the companion of someone who due to chronic pain management had to go through not one but two series of accute drug withdrawal and all the things that come along with it. My experience years before helped us both ride out the months that seemed to come straight from Hell.
Perhaps your work in the medical fields will involve at some point in time, someone who can only be helped by the personal knowledge that comes from experience. Perhaps too that at this point in your education, the pressures of your studies are truely taking a toll on your nerves and as a reaction, your mind is trying to thwart your efforts by bringing into question all that you work hard for, simply because it may be the only way for you to take notice and slow down a bit.
We are all human. We have limits that we push sometimes way beyond where we should, or focus too greatly on one portion of the image we are processing. The mind is aware of the bigger picture and is capable of quickly commenting on our whole in a way that may not quite clearly be understood.
Between God and mind, for whatever reasons, this experience will teach you something very valuable. It may be direction about limits and caring for yourself, it could be the personal connection you need to gain the edge later when treating a patient or it may be that the higher power you have an awareness of is trying to show you how well you are cared for and prepared for your next challenges.
That said, we all know you will prevail, but you mustn't approach this solely as an excercise. It is important for you to medically eliminate the possibility that biologically you may need assistance to regulate certain hormones and at the very least, you must come to a balance in potentially practicing what you preach. If you cannot seek the assistance you may need or reach out for evaluation, how much more so will your future patients address their personal obstacles to your recommended prescriptions for health and well-being? ;-)
Hang in there. The sun has always risen in the East even when the clouds try to obscure it from our sight.
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05/30/2005 12:00:57 AM · #41 |
Hmm how come opposed to taking medicine while doing medicine?
oh well :)
listen get your T3 + T4 checked up - depression is one of the symptoms of hypothyroidism.
Since you are a med student - it will be easier f ryou to get this done in your school.
Dont worry about it - I had a girl in my class who had hyperthyroidism ;) - god did she have an appetite or what - and she was thin as hell too mate.
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05/30/2005 01:38:48 AM · #42 |
Ok I can not tell you what is wrong with you, I have felt similar before though so I can tell you some suggestions to what to do...
You know, maybe its what you are studing in school to become. This may not be who you are.. Your life slows down sometimes when you are in need of change.. If what you are doing is your passion then you probably wouldnt be having trouble to want to ask..
Maybe you just need a break a good fresh start and breath in the air in another environment.. Talk to someone.. Get away from the computer and go outside. Take a drive. Find a stable that allows you to pay for an hour and ride a horse or ride a bike..(ride a gocart too)...Take the plane, or a train if you havent done that in a while. Take a walk somewhere that you have never walked before.. Keep hope with you all the time, wish upon a star your greatest wish, dream while laying under the stars and moon...hang out with your best friend..Meet a new friend to spark your enthusiasm.... go fishing....
Oh yeah I forgot to add this...Help someone else that may be less fortunate or become a big brother for a child. Carry a meal everynow and then to older person...
Never Too Late
The most wonderfull thing about living is this;
That its never too late to change your thoughts or your goals,
Your path or your plans the comfortable way for the strange...
Its never too late to correct a mistake, to go for the best you can find;
To Shoot for the stars with your feet on the ground.
To leave all your failures behind.
Its never too late!! What a wonderfull thought!!
What a perfect reply to despair...
the promise of God that its never too late to start your life over....
with prayer!
(Nora's collection- my friend who has helped me in my darkest times..)
Message edited by author 2005-05-30 01:45:51.
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05/30/2005 07:58:31 AM · #43 |
Come to Toronto and I'll cure you in a weekend. :D
My advice to you is to start drinking heavily. < Frat House
Ahhh, alcohol. The cause and solution to al mans problems. < Homer J. Simpson.
Last and most importantly...
Use the force. < Obi Wan
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