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05/19/2005 06:00:22 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by nfessel:
Ah ok. I understand what you mean. But is the processing not the same for each shot? I mean, if we use the same technique to get the shot off the camera onto the screen? Say, if I shot in TIFF and just pulled that data off the memory card and looked at it, not in Photoshop, but in the standard image viewer. ? |
That's not the issue, though: the issue is, "Is your monitor properly calibrated to show pure white and pure black at their natural locations on the scale?"...
It doesn't mean much to compare this stuff in terms of CALIBRATING your equipment if you don't have a constant baseline from which to work. This is somethign I'm struggling with myself, and I was a zone system PRO, worked with Adams and taught it for years at UCSD... It's really hard to translate it cleanly into digital terms, thought in a loose sense it can work very well.
My main concern right now is trying to derive a viable COLOR "zone zystem" that will allow me to previsualize COLOR exposures and then "process" the image in a predetermined and consistent manner to attain that previsualization.
Robt.
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05/19/2005 06:03:17 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Originally posted by nfessel:
Ah ok. I understand what you mean. But is the processing not the same for each shot? I mean, if we use the same technique to get the shot off the camera onto the screen? Say, if I shot in TIFF and just pulled that data off the memory card and looked at it, not in Photoshop, but in the standard image viewer. ? |
That's not the issue, though: the issue is, "Is your monitor properly calibrated to show pure white and pure black at their natural locations on the scale?"...
It doesn't mean much to compare this stuff in terms of CALIBRATING your equipment if you don't have a constant baseline from which to work. This is somethign I'm struggling with myself, and I was a zone system PRO, worked with Adams and taught it for years at UCSD... It's really hard to translate it cleanly into digital terms, thought in a loose sense it can work very well.
My main concern right now is trying to derive a viable COLOR "zone zystem" that will allow me to previsualize COLOR exposures and then "process" the image in a predetermined and consistent manner to attain that previsualization.
Robt. |
I was under the impression that photographers can apply Ansel's Zone system methods to both color and b&w. Color has the same tones as black and white, in a sense. Or maybe not?? I don't quite know to be honest. Quite an interesting idea.
Unless by a color zone system you mean colors as tones. I.e., blue would be Zone 1, red Zone 2, etc. But I'm not sure.
Not to sound ludicrous, but if there were a such thing as a red dog, the dog would have to receive an exposure for a darker zone than, say, a tan dog, because red is a darker color than tan. Make sense? Of course with color comes color balance, which throws another dimension into the issue.
Message edited by author 2005-05-19 18:20:39. |
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05/19/2005 11:00:13 PM · #28 |
My personal opinion based on very limited knowledge and experience is that using a digital medium (camera) to capture an image we do not need to be concerned about the output when clicking the shutter. My point about determining the "scale" of tones for your individual camera is so that you can understand how to best capture the range of tones of the scene in front of you within the limited dynamic range of the sensor in your camera. Then, in your editing program, you can figure out how to output that information and even change the color space to reflect a larger or smaller range of output (does that make sense?)
My concern is determining whether the stop scale in a film camera correlates with the stop scale of a digital camera. It seems to me, from my own limited tests done as I described above, was that my 2 MP archaic camera only had 2 stops of tonal range in either direction from zone V, but with the 1/3rd stops that are common to all digital cameras I could get in most of the tones in a given scene. |
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05/19/2005 11:12:43 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
My personal opinion based on very limited knowledge and experience is that using a digital medium (camera) to capture an image we do not need to be concerned about the output when clicking the shutter. My point about determining the "scale" of tones for your individual camera is so that you can understand how to best capture the range of tones of the scene in front of you within the limited dynamic range of the sensor in your camera. Then, in your editing program, you can figure out how to output that information and even change the color space to reflect a larger or smaller range of output (does that make sense?)
My concern is determining whether the stop scale in a film camera correlates with the stop scale of a digital camera. It seems to me, from my own limited tests done as I described above, was that my 2 MP archaic camera only had 2 stops of tonal range in either direction from zone V, but with the 1/3rd stops that are common to all digital cameras I could get in most of the tones in a given scene. |
Intermediate steps are essentially irrelevant. YOu need to know the tonal range of your medium (sensor or film) and the tonal range of your subject. Zone System is about exposing and processing the shot so that all the tonal range of your subject is contained within the tonal range of your medium or, if the subject is of a very limited tonal range, exposing and processing so that it is EXPANDED to use the full range of tones your medium can produce.
In other words, in B/W film, "expose for the shadows and process for the highlights". In positive media (transparencies and digital sensors), "expose for the highlights and process for the shadows." In digital, of course, "processing" = working with curves/levels to custom-tailor the expressed tonal range to the disply/output medium you are using.
So the first part of your staement above makes sense, the second part really doesn't.
Robt.
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05/19/2005 11:13:30 PM · #30 |
If you don't know, you have no business driving!
LOL - sorry, I have a compulsion to respond to just the subject line of a thread without reading any of the posts. :)
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05/19/2005 11:20:09 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
If you don't know, you have no business driving!
LOL - sorry, I have a compulsion to respond to just the subject line of a thread without reading any of the posts. :) |
Fine, Ken: now GO!
jejeje�
R.
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05/20/2005 12:29:07 PM · #32 |
Another question: I've been reading a camera manual and the meter of the camera uses EV "ticks" to represent + or - 1 EV changes. Is an increase/decrease of one "Exposure Value" (EV) equivalent to an increase/decrease of "1 stop"?? I think it is, but I just want to be certain. This will help with my learning. Thanks.
It's funny how I don't really know the answers to these questions, yet I've been shooting completely manual for a few years now.
-Nick
Message edited by author 2005-05-20 12:36:07. |
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05/20/2005 12:47:05 PM · #33 |
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05/20/2005 01:16:27 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by nfessel:
Another question: I've been reading a camera manual and the meter of the camera uses EV "ticks" to represent + or - 1 EV changes. Is an increase/decrease of one "Exposure Value" (EV) equivalent to an increase/decrease of "1 stop"?? I think it is, but I just want to be certain. This will help with my learning. Thanks.
-Nick |
That's how I understand it, that +/- 1eV is the same as changing 1 f-Stop. |
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05/20/2005 01:19:55 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by nfessel:
Another question: I've been reading a camera manual and the meter of the camera uses EV "ticks" to represent + or - 1 EV changes. Is an increase/decrease of one "Exposure Value" (EV) equivalent to an increase/decrease of "1 stop"?? I think it is, but I just want to be certain. This will help with my learning. Thanks.
-Nick |
That's how I understand it, that +/- 1eV is the same as changing 1 f-Stop. |
Thank you |
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