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05/19/2005 03:06:45 PM · #26 |
Addition to previous post:
I've been studying English language since elementary school, but until I had to 'live' the language I was just a good reader, and a so-so speaker. Having to think in a foreign language is what forces you to really learn it.
The best method for learning any foreign language is to throw yourself in the environment where your target language is the only language spoken, and where nobody can understand your other language. It may sound crazy, learning the language without a grammar book or a dictionary, but that's how we all learned our first language. We didn't use the dictionary nor we learned our nouns and verbs and tenses from a book. Of course, it is useful to have a dictionary handy to expedite the process. Or, learn the basics of the language and then throw yourself out there... and go with the flow. It really works! Trust me!
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05/19/2005 03:07:02 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
I have a quick question for you. I was told in another forum that the apostrophe was particularly hard to understand, especially when used in contractions (can't - can not, don't -- do not, and so on). While I complied and stopped using contractions in that forum it always seemed strange for one symbol to be more difficult than any of the other symbols used. Not that it mattered, the extra typing is only helping me. :)
However, I never got the chance to find out if it was widely true or not. So, from an American that daily butchers the one language he knows -- are there any particular areas that give you and your peers more trouble than others?
David |
I'm going to jump in here. First of all, kudos to those of you who are conversant in more than one language. I envy you. I struggle to pick up a little Spanish here and there, and my wife is from Peru!
David, the apostrophe is not that hard to understand when used correctly. I think the issue is that so many people don't know how to do so. IMHO, grammar and spelling are vitally important, if you want to convey your thoughts properly, and I can't imagine that this concept would be limited only to the English language. I am daily more amazed at (for example) the posts in these forums from apparently native English-speaking members. People don't seem to know the difference between the words 'there' and 'their', 'where' and 'were', 'your' and 'you're', etc. Everywhere, the language seems to be degrading. I, for one, won't do business with a company that can't/won't use proper grammar in their advertising, simply because if they can't manage to do that, I don't have much faith in them servicing me properly. It's my little stand against the tide. |
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05/19/2005 03:09:36 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by aronya1:
Everywhere, the language seems to be degrading. I, for one, won't do business with a company that can't/won't use proper grammar in their advertising, simply because if they can't manage to do that, I don't have much faith in them servicing me properly. It's my little stand against the tide. |
clap clap clap clap_____Standing ovation from me______ clap clap clap clap |
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05/19/2005 03:09:38 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by srdanz:
Originally posted by Kylie:
Originally posted by srdanz:
Hvala lijepa, Kylie, siguran sam da bi i vi lako presli na drugi jezik da ste bili ubaceni u drugu sredinu i ostavljeni da se snadjete...
-S. |
I hope that was nice! If not, at least I will never know!! lol |
Translation only for you:
Thank you very much, Kylie. I'm sure that you would be fluent in another language if only you were forced to live in another country where nobody spoke English and could understand you... |
Thank you. Yes, I would absolutely see it as my responsibility and privilege.
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05/19/2005 03:11:23 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
Originally posted by aronya1:
Everywhere, the language seems to be degrading. I, for one, won't do business with a company that can't/won't use proper grammar in their advertising, simply because if they can't manage to do that, I don't have much faith in them servicing me properly. It's my little stand against the tide. |
clap clap clap clap_____Standing ovation from me______ clap clap clap clap |
I was trying to step around that carefully, so as to not inflame my fellow Americans . . . but, yes, I applaud, too!!! I used to teach and tutor English and Western Philosophy and it makes me sick when I hear what has happened to language. It truly sickens me.
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05/19/2005 03:13:47 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
are there any particular areas that give you and your peers more trouble than others? |
In English there is only one thing I just can't seem to get right.
If and wish sentenses. can/could/had/would... Arrrrrrrgh!! I hate those!!
In portuguese on the other hand, I'm having dificulties with the notification forms: o/a/um/uma and all their continuers (de+o=do, em+a=na...)
The funny thing is that my own language, Hebrew, is one of teh hardest to learn. It's grammer is completely weird. Nouns and adjectives should be placed in the wrong position in a sentense...
but I speak this one completely without mistakes! LOL
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05/19/2005 03:13:58 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
clap clap clap clap_____Standing ovation from me______ clap clap clap clap |
Thank you all so much. I promise not to forget the little people who have made this all possible... ;-) |
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05/19/2005 03:17:52 PM · #33 |
The problem for learning a second language in the midwest US, excepting cities like Chicago, is that you rarely, if ever, get a chance to use it. A person could live their entire life in the midwest and barely have an opporutinty to use it. The exception would be Spanish and that's often confined to the field of agriculture with migrant workers from Mexico.
Whereas I've traveled through central Europe, Korea and Southeast Asia and I have always found someone who wanted to practice their English with me. Not so much in Europe, but strangers would approach me is Asia for a short conversation. Usually starting with "Excuse me. Do you have the time?" I really enjoyed meeting and talking with these people. |
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05/19/2005 03:22:21 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Jinjit:
By the way - Scuds - watch out for me!
Eu estudo o português agora! (mas não falo ainda) (I hope that was correct ;-) |
Just perfect. Nothing to add, nothing to take away. Even the "acento" is correct! I bet that in no time u'll be speaking PORTUGUESE a lot better than I do, LoL!
By the way, se você quiser praticar português, por favor, não deixe de me procurar!
EDIT: messed up the languages in the original post
Message edited by author 2005-05-19 15:35:51. |
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05/19/2005 03:23:46 PM · #35 |
| What part of Chicago are you in? That's where I'm from, originally. Lived mostly on the south, far south & far west suburbs. Go Sox! |
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05/19/2005 03:23:49 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by milo655321:
.....you rarely, if ever, get a chance to use it. |
That is very true.
I have had a lifelong passion for the Italian language (doesn't it sound like music even when they are yelling at each other?).
I have attended a few courses, but keep forgetting everything due to lack of practice :-( |
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05/19/2005 03:35:00 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by aronya1:
What part of Chicago are you in? That's where I'm from, originally. Lived mostly on the south, far south & far west suburbs. Go Sox! |
So ... how 'bout them Cubbys?
(I'm within long walking distance of Wrigley Field.) |
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05/19/2005 03:44:22 PM · #38 |
Thank you for the flowers, Kylie.
I've been learning English for 6 years now, but we stopped grammar after three years. Since then, it's mostly been comprehension checks, text analisys (what's the plural of that word?), books and poetry. Lots of poetry.
My exams will start next week, and we'll be asked questions about poems by Donne, Shakespeare, Owen, Auden, Yeats, etc and write an essay about Macbeth (I'll have to be so careful not to write McBeth ;)
But then, I think I'm in a special situation, since I live in Luxembourg. I speak Luxembourgian, English, German, French and Spanish
(d'oh, exams in 4 languages...). Many of my friends learned Latin as well. Without foreign languages, Luxembourgians would be pretty lost in the world. Drive 30 miles and nobody speaks your native language anymore...actually I just have to go to the supermarket and not a single vendor understands me if I don't speak French...
Kudos to each and every one on this site who keeps up with those who have English/American as their native language. I think we're all doing pretty well.
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05/19/2005 03:47:17 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by scuds:
By the way, se você quiser praticar português, por favor, não deixe de me procurar! |
não deixe? don't leave? I understood the first and last parts, but didn't understand how this make sense with the rest. were you offering your help in practice or were you trying to avoid that? LOL
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05/19/2005 04:23:07 PM · #40 |
Such lovely praise,thanks :-)
Blagodaram za mnogu ubavite zborovi !
Message edited by author 2005-05-19 17:10:59. |
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05/19/2005 04:26:31 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Kylie:
I just want to express my admiration for all our DPC'ers who don't use English as their first language, and yet do such a wonderful job communicating here on DPC. I run into far too many people who mangle English and it is their "first" and only language. You folks make it look easy, and I know it isn't. I admire you greatly for this. Now back to photography, and I will try to stay on topic for the rest of the day. 
Edit: just to illustrate my point, I, of course, mangle the subject line myself! lol |
you go girl!!!ice comment... i agree i speak 2 langs. myself english and bad english
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05/19/2005 04:32:02 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by Jinjit:
Originally posted by scuds:
By the way, se você quiser praticar português, por favor, não deixe de me procurar! |
não deixe? don't leave? I understood the first and last parts, but didn't understand how this make sense with the rest. were you offering your help in practice or were you trying to avoid that? LOL |
U see that's the hard part 'bout languages with latin roots. Some expressions don't kame sense, if you don't know it's context. Heck, even in languages considered to have barbarian origin.
Não deixe means, don't hesitate! I'm offering you help, LoL, not trying to keep you away from me hahaha!   |
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05/19/2005 04:42:16 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Kylie:
I just want to express my admiration for all our DPC'ers who don't use English as their first language, and yet do such a wonderful job communicating here on DPC. I run into far too many people who mangle English and it is their "first" and only language. You folks make it look easy, and I know it isn't. I admire you greatly for this. Now back to photography, and I will try to stay on topic for the rest of the day.
Edit: just to illustrate my point, I, of course, mangle the subject line myself! lol |
Kylie, thank you! English is very hard to master but it is one of the international languages so we have to learn it, sometimes grudgingly. There were days in elementary school back in the Philippines when I was growing up there which were designated as English only days and we were fined if we utter a single word in our native language during those days (like a centavo a word, or sometimes even ten centavos a word, depending on the school). It's kind of oppressive but the colonized have to learn the language of the colonizer especially if the colonized country has many languages. English becomes the unifier language - in the Philippines for example, we have 85 distinct languages and many more dialects - practically each island or province has its own. There was no dominant language when the Spanish and later on the Americans came. The Spanish didn't want to impose their language on Filipinos (unlike what they did in South America) but when the Americans came, English became the medium of instruction and business and became the de facto national language. In effect, at one point, the Philippines became the third largest English-speaking country in the world. |
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05/19/2005 04:43:59 PM · #44 |
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05/19/2005 05:06:21 PM · #45 |
words like nondeterministic, interoperability, bioinformatics, pseudoxanthoma, phenylketonuria, and other difficult words not commonly used makes it rather hard for us foreigners to understand english spoken or written by someone educated for educated people.
but the common 800 word vocabulary is well within the english we learn in kindergarden and junior high :) |
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05/19/2005 05:08:49 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by DanSig:
words like nondeterministic, interoperability, bioinformatics, pseudoxanthoma, phenylketonuria, and other difficult words not commonly used makes it rather hard for us foreigners to understand english spoken or written by someone educated for educated people.
but the common 800 word vocabulary is well within the english we learn in kindergarden and junior high :) |
I'd say don't worry too much, most of those words aren't for native English speaking people either. ;)
Message edited by author 2005-05-19 17:09:23. |
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05/19/2005 05:14:02 PM · #47 |
[quote=Kylie] I just want to express my admiration for all our DPC'ers who don't use English as their first language, and yet do such a wonderful job communicating here on DPC. I run into far too many people who mangle English and it is their "first" and only language. You folks make it look easy, and I know it isn't. I admire you greatly for this. Now back to photography, and I will try to stay on topic for the rest of the day.
moordwijf dat je aan zoiets denkt
translation:
hell of a woman who brings up such items at all
ure right Kylie for taking it not for granted
its not that easy all the time for us 'aliens'
especially when it gets deep (yes..it sometimes does)
i mean i can follow most discussions but for example when someone like Zeusen has something to say i often have to do a lot of browsing in the dictionary (mostly worth it)
i have difficulties with the proper use of to, at, on ,of ..words like these
often when i do a reread of a comment i feel silly and i have to make corrections all the time
that line 'message edited by author' almost became my signature ..he
Message edited by author 2005-05-19 17:14:46. |
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05/19/2005 05:19:31 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by messerschmitt:
ure right Kylie for taking it not for granted
its not that easy all the time for us 'aliens'
especially when it gets deep (yes..it sometimes does)
i mean i can follow most discussions but for example when someone like Zeusen has something to say i often have to do a lot of browsing in the dictionary (mostly worth it)
i have difficulties with the proper use of to, at, on ,of ..words like these
often when i do a reread of a comment i feel silly and i have to make corrections all the time
that line 'message edited by author' almost became my signature ..he |
Ha, I'm sure if you ever read my German, you'd be appalled and rightly so. |
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05/19/2005 05:20:38 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by messerschmitt:
that line 'message edited by author' almost became my signature ..he |
Me, too, except for an entirely different reason -- I make typing errors every other word! And I always catch them AFTER I hit "Post". lol
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05/19/2005 05:22:37 PM · #50 |
[/quote]
Ha, I'm sure if you ever read my German, you'd be appalled and rightly so. [/quote]
not that it makes any difference but im in the Netherlands
a stone throw away from the German border though |
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that's really great cause I was counting on you a lot! I am learning the Brasilian portuguese and I loved your tattoo so you were my natural pick for some chat practice once I actually get my portoguese to work ;-) (will take me a while though. I have only began my classes about a month ago)
