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05/17/2005 05:19:41 PM · #26 |
youll get the same (out of the camera quality with the 1d MarkII as with the 20D) only way to improve it is with better lighting and better glass... even then its still gonna be softer than you want or expect. Unless you want soft looking prints everything will end up going thru photoshop anywat and at lease run the USM a time or two. To tell you the truth when I went from my 300D to the 1d MarkII I was like F_ck, no difference... you can read all the reviews and look at all the scientific data, review all the charts etc... but the truth is STRAIGHT out of the camera they look the same... ;(
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05/17/2005 05:26:14 PM · #27 |
| The 1ds2 was a natural choice for me, iso50 and large files were imperative...BUT to be sincere the price is very hard to justify. |
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05/17/2005 06:08:16 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by pitsaman:
It is shame 1500$ camera not to have a spot metering :-( |
!!! Exactly my sentiment.
Especially, if you're interested in creative exposures, bracketing can mean a poor substitute for a spot meter. Partial metering å la 20D can be become entirely ineffective, if the sample area is to small or narrow.
This is the sole reason why I never upgraded to the 20D. The 1D MkII is, off course, a hell of an expensive spot meter. Given this, I went out and bought a second 10D. :-D
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05/17/2005 06:17:43 PM · #29 |
Some of the posters to this thread have not been paying attention Kosta's progress in photographic skills and knowledge of equipment, as I have been since I came to dpc. He knows his Canon glass, he does not have "el cheapo" lenses.
My experience with the 20D says that images up to and including ISO 800 are essentially noise free. At 1600 some need to be put thru NI, depending on subject and lighting. At 3200 you will probably NI most but they are still definitely useable images.
My biggest 20D complaint would be in the area of focusing accuracy for sports/ fast action type of shooting, but that's not a high priority for you. And of course there is the sensor dust issue that you already know about from your Rebel.
I think you would like the 20D very much. But you may be more interested in 1.3 crop over 1.6 than I am. Shooting speed and focusing accuracy are the things that will move me to upgrade, but not anytime real soon.
You can use the A1 Servo focusing mode with any ISO setting on the 20D.
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05/17/2005 06:26:12 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Originally posted by pitsaman:
It is shame 1500$ camera not to have a spot metering :-(
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That's what your programmable auto-bracketing is for, I think :-)
Robt. |
I loved the spot meter on my Oly5050C
Even Mikon D70 have better metering than Canon 20D/10D/300D :-(
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05/17/2005 07:26:24 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by pitsaman:
It is shame 1500$ camera not to have a spot metering :-(
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That was taken with the 20D? The partial metering and/or 2/3rd stop bracketing would have got that. I imagine the highlights would be blinking as well..
If you spot metered the dress it would probably have wound up 2/3rds of a stop underexposed in this example.. Unless you compenstated for the white.
If you're shooting weddings regularly, you either need a incident light meter, or shot raw and bracket your shots. Even with a spot meter capable body this type of shot can get away from you.
IMHO, as always, this type of thing is more about experience and skill than the equipment at hand..
Cheers, Chris H.
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05/17/2005 07:27:54 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by KiwiChris:
...IMHO, as always, this type of thing is more about experience and skill than the equipment at hand..
Cheers, Chris H. |
Easier to blame the camera.. ;) |
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05/17/2005 07:48:45 PM · #33 |
why do you american/canadian only ship to USA/canada when you are selling your stuff ?
I'm always missing out on good deals because I live in Iceland, I've bought gear from BH, 47st, carmans, Gary Fong and some other retailers for over $10.000 in the past year, still my credid is no good when bidding on used items, I just can't see why.
can someone please explain.. I understand not shipping to Indonesia, cambodia, nicaragua or other counties known for their internet scams, but normal European countries ?? why not ? |
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05/17/2005 07:50:48 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by DanSig:
why do you american/canadian only ship to USA/canada when you are selling your stuff ?
I'm always missing out on good deals because I live in Iceland, I've bought gear from BH, 47st, carmans, Gary Fong and some other retailers for over $10.000 in the past year, still my credid is no good when bidding on used items, I just can't see why.
can someone please explain.. I understand not shipping to Indonesia, cambodia, nicaragua or other counties known for their internet scams, but normal European countries ?? why not ? |
True, in fact people from the USA won't even ship to Canada! Figure that out... |
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05/17/2005 10:03:18 PM · #35 |
| Also in THIS wedding every photo suffers from white overexposed.Canon 20D have same metering problem like my Rebel. |
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05/18/2005 05:29:38 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by pitsaman:
Also in THIS wedding every photo suffers from white overexposed.Canon 20D have same metering problem like my Rebel. |
Ummmmmmmmmm,
I don't see a 'problem' in these shots from a camera perspective, there's some great photos in there, and in general they are well exposed.
Yes, there are some shots in there with blown whites, that is the nature of averaging or evaluative metering. If you had a spot meter, how do you think this would have improved?
The 20D has around a 6 stop dynamic range (?), so you'd have to meter the brightest spot, with -3 stops compensation? You'd have some terrible skin tones and your shadow detail would probably be lost.
I don't know your shooting style or preferences, but any camera you use will give you blown highlights in a reflected light metering situation on some shots. By the very nature of evaluative/averaged metering it's going to be wrong some of the time.
If you're shooting this type of situation regularly you need to be working with the bracketing features of the camera, or religiously using the preview and compenstation or manual mode adjustments. Either that or get an incident light meter, which is the ideal solution for 'setup' shots anyway, as the people are already standing still waiting for you anyway.
I have many photos that would have been better without blown highlights, from my 20D, the Powershot G5, A95 at work... I don't believe that features on any one of those cameras will fix the problem, but I know I can learn do deal with the characteristics of a camera and improve my results.
As always my 2c worth..
Cheers, Chris H.
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05/18/2005 05:42:54 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by DanSig:
I upgraded from the 300D to 20D in january, I was thinking about getting the 1D II but after comparing the 2 I realized that the 1D II isn't worth the extra $2K unless I were a sports photographer, in ALL other situations the 20D is quite enough.. |
I'm not a professional Sports Photographer, but I've taken my share of sports photos in my day, and here is one in a series I took a few days after I got my Canon 20D, using the 70-300 Telephoto Lens. I was very happy with the pics per second for these types of action shots. I found the camera is actually faster than they advertise.
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05/18/2005 05:56:18 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by pitsaman:
Even Mikon D70 have better metering than Canon 20D/10D/300D :-(
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Ummm (Me, thinking again...)
That photo is more balanced (not blown out) but the there is the bright patch of sky, which will have been easily a couple of stops brighter than the white dress and increased the metered EV, and therefore effected the camera's evaluation of the image.
Judging the ability of a camera on disimilar scenes is not very accurate. To make that judgement you'd have have the two cameras side by side at the same time, with similar spec lenses. There are also the differences between CMOS and CCD, and all those other things people love to rave on about. None of which change the basic requirements for a good photo.
Cheers, Me.
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05/18/2005 09:11:17 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by KiwiChris:
Originally posted by pitsaman:
It is shame 1500$ camera not to have a spot metering :-(
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That was taken with the 20D? The partial metering and/or 2/3rd stop bracketing would have got that. I imagine the highlights would be blinking as well..
If you spot metered the dress it would probably have wound up 2/3rds of a stop underexposed in this example.. Unless you compenstated for the white.
If you're shooting weddings regularly, you either need a incident light meter, or shot raw and bracket your shots. Even with a spot meter capable body this type of shot can get away from you.
IMHO, as always, this type of thing is more about experience and skill than the equipment at hand..
Cheers, Chris H. |
I have a hard time believing that the photographer used partial metering here!
It looks like they put the camera in P mode and shot away with evaluative metering! Do that with any camera and your gonna get the same results. |
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05/18/2005 11:36:56 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by superdave_909:
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I have a hard time believing that the photographer used partial metering here!
It looks like they put the camera in P mode and shot away with evaluative metering! Do that with any camera and your gonna get the same results. [/quote]
Here is EXIF:
Full EXIF Info
Date/Time 19-Feb-2005 15:11:51
Make Canon
Model Canon EOS 20D
Flash Used Yes
Focal Length 16 mm
Exposure Time 1/125 sec
Aperture f/6.3
ISO Equivalent 200
Exposure Bias
White Balance (-1)
Metering Mode average (1)
JPEG Quality (6)
Exposure Program aperture priority (3)
It is not a P mode |
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05/18/2005 12:25:04 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by pitsaman:
Here is EXIF:
Full EXIF Info
Date/Time 19-Feb-2005 15:11:51
Make Canon
Model Canon EOS 20D
Flash Used Yes
Focal Length 16 mm
Exposure Time 1/125 sec
Aperture f/6.3
ISO Equivalent 200
Exposure Bias
White Balance (-1)
Metering Mode average (1)
JPEG Quality (6)
Exposure Program aperture priority (3)
It is not a P mode |
Ok, maybe I was reaching with p mode :)
But that still doesn't dismiss the fact that the meter mode is average not partial.
Given partial is not as good as spot, but if you mindful of that it shouldn't be an issue.
edit typo
Message edited by author 2005-05-18 12:25:38. |
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05/18/2005 12:53:47 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by petrakka:
I'd personally rather get used high end professional gear than the newest pro-sumer. |
....... D70?
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05/18/2005 05:52:43 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by superdave_909:
Originally posted by KiwiChris:
Originally posted by pitsaman:
It is shame 1500$ camera not to have a spot metering :-(
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That was taken with the 20D? The partial metering and/or 2/3rd stop bracketing would have got that. I imagine the highlights would be blinking as well.. |
I have a hard time believing that the photographer used partial metering here!
It looks like they put the camera in P mode and shot away with evaluative metering! Do that with any camera and your gonna get the same results. |
Just to make myself slightly clearer (Re-reading my post it wasn't)... I meant that if the photog. had use partial metering it would have been correctly exposed, not that the photo was taken with partial metering.
:-)
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05/19/2005 12:40:44 AM · #44 |
| quick question: if the image quality of the 20d is almost identical to the 1D, and i've heard the image quality of the rebel xt is almost identical to the 20d...does that make the image quality of the rebel xt almost identical to that of the 1D? seems like it, but it can't be, the rebel xt is like 850 while the 1d is like 3500...hmmm anyone have anything to say about that? |
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05/19/2005 02:49:41 AM · #45 |
Conclusion what Canon 20 D need to be worth upgrading from 300D or 10 D:
ISO 50
Spot metering
2 or 2.5 inch LCD
CMOS dust protection
1.3 X crop sensor
More precise autofocusing on side points
Anybody have more ideas? |
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05/19/2005 04:43:50 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by art-inept:
quick question: if the image quality of the 20d is almost identical to the 1D, and i've heard the image quality of the rebel xt is almost identical to the 20d...does that make the image quality of the rebel xt almost identical to that of the 1D? seems like it, but it can't be, the rebel xt is like 850 while the 1d is like 3500...hmmm anyone have anything to say about that? |
All the reviews I've read state that the image quality of the 10D, despite being 6MP is much higher (sharper) than the 8MP 350. |
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