Canon 20D or 1Ds - DPChallenge Forums

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

05/13/2005 06:44:17 PM · #1

Is it Canon 20 D enough better than Rebel to spent 1400 $ on upgrade or should I put some more money and get the Mark II 1Ds the 8.2 MP version.

So far I haven't been impressed with 20 D samples.

What do you folks think?

At the title should be Canon D1 (the 8 mp version).

Message edited by author 2005-05-13 20:18:33.

Azrifel

Fujifilm X100VI

05/13/2005 06:47:11 PM · #2

I think it comes down to body preference and you should just test both.

faidoi

Pentax K10D

05/13/2005 06:48:05 PM · #3

Since you also enjoy taking lot's of landscape I say go for the Mark II 1Ds because of the full format for wide angle shooting.

kyebosh

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8L

05/13/2005 07:04:50 PM · #4

Yes the 20D is a huge upgrade over the 300D. The 1Ds Mark II is 16mp and about $7500. If you mean the 1D Mark II, that'll run about $3500 and it's a better camera. The 20D and the 1DII are great cameras, just think about if the price difference is worth it for what you need to do.

DanSig

05/13/2005 07:16:20 PM · #5

I upgraded from the 300D to 20D in january, I was thinking about getting the 1D II but after comparing the 2 I realized that the 1D II isn't worth the extra $2K unless I were a sports photographer, in ALL other situations the 20D is quite enough.. unless you need the fullframe and 16Mp of the 1Ds II then the 1D II isn't even enough.

the 1D II is a great camera, and if it would cost about $2000 then I would have bought it, but I went wit the 20D and the 70-200L f2.8 IS and the grip and the 580EX speedlite, and still had some $$$ left to go to the movies ;)

so unless you really NEEED the 9fps then get the 20D, the image quality is almost identical to the 1d II and all functions are almost identical.. the biggest difference is the fps, water resistance and the PRICE.. not worth $2000 extra ;)

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

05/13/2005 07:33:55 PM · #6

Kosta, I have been going through the same process of questioning. One thing I do know is that I sooo want to move away from 1.6x-crop cameras. The 1.3x crop of the 1DMkII is a huge advantage in WA, as I'm sure you know. With the bigger sensor, the 1DMkII will be a little less demanding on glass in center of frame, while requiring that the lens is sharp further out from center, kind of a double-edged sword.
For myself, I've decided that I won't upgrade until a little later. I'm waiting to see if Canon comes out with a more affordable 1.3-crop cam. I don't need the size, weight or speed of the 1DMkII, really.

05/13/2005 08:16:06 PM · #7

I want low noise ISO 1600 - D1
ISO 50 - D1
don't care about 5 F/s Rebel
don't care about 8 MP Rebel
I want 1.0 or 1.3 lens crop - D1
I want 2 inch screen - D1
I want spot metering - D1

None of these problems are fixed by 20D that is why I think is not a really worth spending $1400 over my Rebel.

dwterry

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

Mattel Barbie Photo Designer Digital Camera

05/13/2005 08:53:23 PM · #8

Originally posted by pitsaman:

I want low noise ISO 1600 - D1

I don't know how the 1D compares to the 20D in terms of noise ... but I can assure you that the 20D is tons better than the original rebel at ISO 1600.

When I was shooting ISO 1600 with the rebel my post processing actually included the "addition" of noise to my photos (had an interesting effect). I felt if I couldn't beat it, I'd join it. :-)

The thing is, I didn't like what Neat Image did to my photos... made them too plastic looking. So I only rarely shot at ISO 1600 with the rebel.

The 20D is looking *really* good at ISO 1600. Now I am either using the image "as is", or I try just a really tiny amount of Neat Image. But I'm really happy with what I am getting out of the 20D.

Now... If you're looking to save money, you might consider upgrading to the Rebel XT instead of the 20D. I believe you'll get nearly the same "low noise" benefits for $600 less. And since you said you're not into the 5 f/s, it won't matter to you that the XT is slower (3 f/s, I think).

I *do* wish the 20D had a bigger, and more accurate, LCD on the back. That, so far, is about the only thing I have wished for! IMO, the 20D is the killer camera for now.

nsbca7

05/13/2005 09:11:21 PM · #9

Originally posted by DanSig:

so unless you really NEEED the 9fps then get the 20D, the image quality is almost identical to the 1d II and all functions are almost identical.. the biggest difference is the fps, water resistance and the PRICE.. not worth $2000 extra ;)

Definatly worth the $2000 extra.

05/13/2005 09:16:45 PM · #10

Of course better camera will not make me better photographer, but I would like to have better options and more freedom.

dwterry

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

05/13/2005 09:43:00 PM · #11

Originally posted by pitsaman:

Of course better camera will not make me better photographer, but I would like to have better options and more freedom.

I have a couple of "low cost" suggestions (without changing cameras) that will help you out tremendously...

First, take a look at this image (from your gallery).

See the shadow to the right of the people. Most of your images have that same shadow. That tells me you are using an on-camera flash (could be a 420 or a 550, but in any case, it is mounted on the camera). And it also tells me that you are consistently turning your camera to the left when you take your pictures in portrait mode.

Now... to get rid of that shadow, two things:

1) Get a flash bracket. I recommend something such as this stroboframe bracket from adorama. It's only $70. The advantage? You flip your camera, NOT your flash! The flash stays up ABOVE the camera at all times, even when you take pictures in portrait mode. This hides the shadow down behind the subject instead of growing out of the side of the subject. Plus, the flash is further from the lens axis... which increases the ability to hide the shadow and further reduces the possibility of red eye.

2) Next, I would go for this lumaquest softbox. It's only $20 and it softens the light that is coming from your flash. The advantage here is that shadows are softer as are the highlights.

Plus, with these two things... you're gonna LOOK like a professional. :-)

These two items plus shipping will be only about $100 and they will add tremendously to the quality of these kinds of photos. (not that I thought your images were bad, you're doing great, this is just meant to help you from a technical perspective)

petrakka

05/13/2005 10:04:41 PM · #12

If you're not super concerned with resolution, why not by a used 1d. (not 1dmkII) just a used 1d. It's 1.3 crop and 4 mp (it printed magazine covers) I don't know why everyone thinks they should always buy new. The 1d is pretty solid cam and can be found in good shape for less than a new 20d. Or get a used 1Ds for wider angle and higher resolution.

05/13/2005 10:09:05 PM · #13

Excuse me Terry ,but those are not mine photos,I know much better than you think :-)

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

05/13/2005 10:14:41 PM · #14

You are looking at 2 completely different Cameras that can't really be compared. The 1Ds is a Full frame camera while the 20D is a 1.6X crop camera. The difference in resolution is pretty big between the 1Ds and 20D. The 1Ds uses a CCD sensor and was average when it came to high ISO performance, the 1Ds II on the other hand has the new CMOS sensor with Digic II processor giving great high ISO performance. It all depends on what you want to do.

dwterry

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

05/13/2005 11:03:01 PM · #15

Originally posted by pitsaman:

Excuse me Terry ,but those are not mine photos,I know much better than you think :-)

Woops... I thought you included the link to show off your photos. Sorry.

dpdave

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

05/14/2005 05:47:10 AM · #16

Originally posted by pitsaman:

It almost seems you are working on selling yourself a 1DmkII. (not a bad thing, by the way, I'm working on that too. :0))But in all reality, you are selling the 20D short.
1600ISO, not a problem with the 20D, I can shoot in many conditions as high as it goes, 3200ISO. The screen is not far enough off of 2 inches to make a huge difference, and my 20D does spot metering as well.
I think the 20D is a definite step up from the Rebel in many respects. The last thing is cost. I spent about $1500 on the 20D, new from B&H. It seems you should be able to sell the Rebel, and not be spending more than $1000, about the cost of a new 350. The 1D series will cost you a pile more, and I'm not sure the return is absolutely worth it.
Good luck in your decision, though.

BobsterLobster

Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro

05/14/2005 05:51:21 AM · #17

Speaking personally, unless I REALLY had to have the D1 for professional reasons, I couldn't justify spending so much money on something which in 5 years time will cost almost nothing and will be superceded by similarly impressive technology.

notonline

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

05/14/2005 06:13:06 AM · #18

When I bought my camera size was an issue which s why I got the rebel. The salesman alo told me for the extra ammount of money for the 20D there wasn't enough different features on it to warrent the extra ammount.

deapee

Kodak V803

05/14/2005 09:08:38 AM · #19

If I had it to do over again, I'd get the 20d. I love my 300d, but I really like the fact that on the 20d you can select AI server (at least I think you can) and not be stuck with ISO 400 -- I think the 20d is a very capable machine -- that's what I'd do if I were you. Save the rest for some NICE glass. I mean what's bgoing to produce better results -- a 20d and some L-glass or a 1ds mk II and some el-cheapo glass?

photodude

05/14/2005 09:51:09 AM · #20

You could also be a little patient while you save. Because Canon moved the Rebel XT about 75% of the way into the gap between the Rebel and 20D, Canon will now need to move the 20D up featured as well to justify the $500 premium the 20D enjoys over the XT.

Hence we should see the 30D in the not too far distant future at the same price as the 20D. There's pleanty of room for feature growth becuase the gap between the 20D and 1D is pretty large. Who knows, maybe we will get the eye control focus on the digital SLR's now.

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

05/14/2005 12:29:12 PM · #21

Originally posted by pitsaman:

1D II then. Too much of a price jump between the 1D II and 1Ds II almost twice the price.