Make the viewer care - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

05/10/2005 10:14:59 AM · #1

I was just voting on some of the challenges, and was reflecting on the fact that I vote low on photos that don't make me care about anything in the frame. And vice versa. This really seems to be the killer ingredient of a good shot, way above technique, composition, etc.

What makes me not care?
A shot with an atmosphere of boredom... would I want to be there?
Is it something I've seen a thousand times? Why do I want to see it again?
If I feel the photographer didn't care about the scene they took. This is a subtle feeling, but can be communicated nonetheless.
Does it take me too much effort to work out what is going on in the shot? A cluttered composition with a distracting background can make it confusing as to what I'm supposed to care about. Complexity has to be handled very carefully.
On the other hand, too much simplicity can just be boring. There is an elusive balance to be aimed for.
An absence of any emotion or mood can make it hard to care about a shot... we're all human beings! Although this can be compensated for if there is a lot for the brain to get stuck into if there is a high level of order.

What makes me care?
People who are emoting.
Something I don't see a lot... unusual light is the photographer's main weapon here.
Imagination.
Something beautiful.
Vulnerability.
Something that lifts me above my usual day-to-day life.
Sensuality.
Things that don't threaten me... there are several ways to threaten a viewer through a photo!
Anything that connects with me personally using archetypes or symbolism.
Spirituality.

Those are my lists off the top of my head... what are yours?

Look through your own photos and ask yourself what it is about those photos that you expect other people to care about? Is that realistic?!

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

05/10/2005 10:47:03 AM · #2

Amen, brother!

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

05/10/2005 01:20:28 PM · #3

Come on then, I'm curious to see other people's lists!
What makes you care about what is in somebody else's photo?

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

05/10/2005 01:26:36 PM · #4

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

Come on then, I'm curious to see other people's lists!
What makes you care about what is in somebody else's photo?

You stole all the topic areas, nothing to add to that except another "amen"...

Robt.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

05/10/2005 01:44:46 PM · #5

I care when the photo looks really cool and I say to myself "Dang - why didn't I think of that?!". ;^)

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

05/10/2005 01:46:51 PM · #6

I kinda' agree with just about everything except this statement:

"Is it something I've seen a thousand times? Why do I want to see it again?"

Sometimes I think it can be a personal challenge to finally get a shot right that has eluded someone, for what ever reason.
As an example, let's say a Macro Challenge came up, and a photographer has tried dozens of times to get a great shot of a fly, or a rose, or whatever. Then, after studying the tricks of the trade, or getting better lighting, or whatever again, they finally master it. It is submitted with the greastest pride, only to get ho-hum votes.

Is it fair to vote their shot down based on a viewers' boredom with it? What if it was a Hallmark-quality rose shot, or a scientific journal-quality macro of a fly's head, even though they have been seen oodles of times here.

Personally, bored (aka seen it dozens of times before) or not, I feel a shot deserves a fair vote regardless. Each challenge should be looked on as a fresh and first time to cross our screens collection of images.

Everything simply cannot be unique.

Man_Called_Horse

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

05/10/2005 01:47:21 PM · #7

nice job.

I definetly agree.

If I see another macro of a flower, or a portrait, or a pet, or a wedding photo, I think I will throw up..... or move to Iceland.

khdoss

Nikon D300

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Nikon

05/10/2005 01:53:52 PM · #8

The five challenge is a great example of the same ole thing. Not all of them but a lot of them. Over and over and I tend to score lower and lower for lack of imagination, unless it is a shot that blows me away..

twm122

Olympus E-3

Olympus 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 ED Zuiko Digital

05/10/2005 01:55:03 PM · #9

Well said BradP.

ralph

Nikon Z9

05/10/2005 02:00:58 PM · #10

i would suggest that "make the viewer care" is a to narrow a view
care has too much, sympathy & nice & rose coloured glasses associated with it

grit is good, so is grain, dirt & contrast
Beauty Vulnerability Sensuality Spirituality .... it is all very shallow ...
my view of the world is so much beyond that

i would rather see a image that "makes the viewer think"
"why", "how", "where" & if you can do it "when"

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

05/10/2005 02:03:05 PM · #11

Originally posted by ralphnev:

Interesting point, but I can care about something in pain... or something that is dirty! I don't just care about kittens and bunnies!

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

05/10/2005 02:05:03 PM · #12

Originally posted by BradP:

Personally, bored (aka seen it dozens of times before) or not, I feel a shot deserves a fair vote regardless. Each challenge should be looked on as a fresh and first time to cross our screens collection of images.

Everything simply cannot be unique.

i agree completely, brad. there is such a difference between 'new-to-me' and 'new-to-you', and it's a shame to be punished for the former. but, by the same token, when the effort made warrants the observation, "ok, you've documented that a [fill in the blank] got in front of your camera", you know you probably could have put in a bit more effort...

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

05/10/2005 02:05:58 PM · #13

Originally posted by BradP:

I didn't say it was fair, only trying to understand how to make a great photo. It's no good blaming the rest of the world for not giving your particular take on a common subject a fair go.
However, I do believe it's possible to make a great photo of a common subject by looking at some of my other points... for example a really well lit flower macro which conveys qualities of sensuality and vulnerability. It's not threatening and arguably can communicate spirituality. There's an emotional component to a really good flower macro IMO.
But you can't just take a snapshot of a flower and expect people to care about it.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

05/10/2005 02:09:57 PM · #14

Taking a photograph that has been done a lot of times you better nail it! It's like a singer try to sing a song that was recorded by an amazing artist. You have to top it or you will bomb even though your picture may look good. That's a risk one takes when taking a photograph that is popular or been seen a lot in a community.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

05/10/2005 02:14:36 PM · #15

I emphatically agree with the idea that a photo that makes the viewer think and emote is a successful photo. Whether that implies caring is debatable. The intended, and actual effect of a photo may be to invoke the emotion of fright; if the photo is successful, does that imply that the viewer cares about the subject? If not, does that imply that the photo has somehow failed? IMO, no.

05/10/2005 02:19:54 PM · #16

Things that I usually am drawn too (as in score extra points) include:

Advanced lighting, unusual perspective, exceptional creativity, optical illusion or trick photography, "the how did they do that" factor, unbelievable action captures.

I've been endeavoring to take some words BradP gave me for advice. I'd put a lot of effort into a few recent challenges and scored rather lower than I expected (I truly thought I had potential to break the 6.0 barrier). One of them (the photo that require more effort than all the rest of my challenges combined) completely bombed.

I took it hard. BradP stated in his response to me the difference between taking a photo to win a challenge and taking a photo that you enjoy. And that they're not always the same.

I look at some of those recent photos now and see that I have a good number of comments in which people truly loved the photo or in which (in the case of the more comical) found it hysterical..."made they're day". And I am starting to realize the success in those...

One challenge entry that I felt was a total failure (it brown ribboned) but when I re-read the following 10 comments (out of a total of 12) I no longer think I failed. I must have achieved something....just not with broad appeal. And not quite perfect... "perhaps seen thru a glass dimly"

- Horrifying! [10]
- Minus a few for the blur and grain, plus a few for the funnies
- Dark and brilliant idea, but I wish the technical aspects of the photo and matched the great concept.
- weird
- looks like a primus album cover,9
- hahaha.. oh god you made me laugh out loud at work!! awesome pic
- quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack !quack ! quaaaaark
- LOLOL
- great, I love it
- :D Awesome!

So I've changed my personal goals toward the following:

a) garner strong comments (either "touch people" or "constructive criticism")

b) break 6.0

Of course, i've gotten barely a dozen comments combined for my last three entries. I think my scores are moving toward that middle of the road. (No longer bad enough to comment on. *lol*)

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

05/10/2005 02:21:09 PM · #17

Originally posted by kirbic:

Hmmm... like Anger Unleashed? I agree it's hard to feel a sense of caring towards this photo! I still like it though... I'll have to think more deeply about my new theory! :-p

awpollard

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

05/10/2005 02:43:20 PM · #18

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

... However, I do believe it's possible to make a great photo of a common subject by looking at some of my other points... for example a really well lit flower macro which conveys qualities of sensuality and vulnerability. It's not threatening and arguably can communicate spirituality. There's an emotional component to a really good flower macro IMO.
But you can't just take a snapshot of a flower and expect people to care about it.

Personally I am not crazy about shooting or viewing flowers (don't even find beauty in them). Yet I even impressed myself when I looked at how this shot I took yesterday, merely to shoot something, came out. Sorry about the shameless plug.

[shameless plug]

[/shameless plug]

Back on Topic

Around here it's for me it's not so much the "I've seen this subject a thousand times before" but the "I've seen this subject a thousand times before presented in the same flat, boring, lifeless, thrown together at the last moment way".

Angles, lighting, and composition is what sets two shots apart. My rule when I take a shot is that "If it don't hurt or I don't feel people are watching (inquizitively) me while I take the shot, then the shot has already been taken by hundreds of other shooters". I do live by this rule most of the time, yes people look at me strange but also note that it won't be long and you'll look back and see a shooter trying to get into that position that you just shot from.

Be original, be different...half the challenge is to shoot that which has been shot before in a different way. It's all been done before.

But be careful as you may end up as subject in a thread like the two currently going on where the visionaries brought out too much emotion.

Andy

ED: Typos, Spelling, Grammar you name it...hey I'm just an IT guy.

Message edited by author 2005-05-10 14:46:49.

05/10/2005 03:51:01 PM · #19

It's a fantastic feeling when you're a tourist surrounded by snappers... you see a perspective everyone else has missed, and then they all fall over themselves trying to replicate it when you move on.

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

05/10/2005 03:56:27 PM · #20

When you look at the thumbnail, doesn't it sorta look like a demonic female spirit?

The two black stamen tops form her horned head. The stems of which her arms. The two yellow stamen tops form her wings. And the yellow stem going horisontal along with the pink part of the petal above forms her almost insect-like abdomen. All framed in a reddish shade of hell but mixed with an odd beauty.

If there was a painter in our midst, this would make for a most unbelievable painting.

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

05/10/2005 04:04:43 PM · #21

Originally posted by theSaj:

I took it hard. BradP stated in his response to me the difference between taking a photo to win a challenge and taking a photo that you enjoy. And that they're not always the same.

Out of curiosity Jason, are you finding less frustration and more enjoyment in what you do, when you are doing it for you first?

Yes, this is a photo competition site, but I firmly believe that if one can please themselves first, then often the pressure of trying to please others is lifted and one's overall quality will increase.

Case in point, in the recent People II Challenge, my submission hit 49%,
which I really thought was kinda' low, but I loved it personally:

Wasn't until after the challenge, that it all made sense when I received
a PM from a very respected member here regarding this shot:

"anyone can take pictures; not everyone can capture life.
Keep doin what you're doin. ta hell with the rest of em :)"

It all made perfect sense then.

Message edited by author 2005-05-10 16:21:01.

05/10/2005 04:33:13 PM · #22

"Out of curiosity Jason, are you finding less frustration and more enjoyment in what you do, when you are doing it for you first?"
[[[Yes...outside of the fact that I am very determined to get myself a 6.0 score. But that's more personal with myself.

Now, if I actually shoot one I think might be a gold and it bombs. I might be a tad bummed but I am starting to be more content with just being fascinated. I've also had a few people add a few of my photos as their favorites. (Gee, I just checked and found one more.)

I've also been having a blast with the new camera set-up.

I realize I was being a bit whiny, taking things too personal. Trying to just grow...I also joined a local photo club. I think this will satisfy the aspect of DPC that frustrates me. Where my best photos always fall outside of challenge submission periods. This will allow me to take some of my personal favorites.

Going back to having fun....

;)

And also, trying to help with a lot more feedback toward others.

moodville

Nikon D100

05/10/2005 04:42:56 PM · #23

I have to disagree. Images that make the viewer care can be good, however, those arent the only images that are worth any merit. If you personally prefer images that 'talk to you' then go you, but that doesnt mean other people should neither take nor like other kinds. It's all personal opinion and preference.