What's minimalism? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

04/24/2005 02:56:37 PM · #1

On the heels of discussing pre-challenge discussions, here is where I find them of value.

I know what minimalism is but where can I draw the line in terms of "how much canvas needs to be filled with the main subject?" or "how much canvas space should be left open?"

I just entered something that I love but my subject takes up a little less than half on the canvas. I'm sure that people will love the subject, the crop and the use of space but might be looking for something still, more wide open.

I'm looking for a percentage answer or is half a canvas pushing things a bit? Any thoughts?

ChasSourek

Canon EOS-40D

04/24/2005 02:58:50 PM · #2

My idea of minimalism is aprox. 5%-15% of the total canvas.
I've been known to be wrong, my wife tells me all the time.
LOL

Artan

Canon Digital IXUS v3

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/24/2005 03:04:14 PM · #3

Half .. probably too much mfor me
5% - 15% is a good guide

but the ultimate is to dig deep, take a large breath ( and plenty of wisky), and ask yourself, how would I mark this.....

soup

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/24/2005 03:08:30 PM · #4

a full frame photo of a subject - done properly - could be minimalistic in design.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

04/24/2005 03:13:19 PM · #5

Originally posted by soup:

a full frame photo of a subject - done properly - could be minimalistic in design.

This would be my interpreation as well if someone just said "minimalism" to me, but the fly in the ointment is the challenge description that asks for the main subject to occupy a small portion of the frame.
I'll vote this one liberally, based on a broad defintion of minimalism, but I would bet that most won't choose to do so. If I were entering (probably am not) I would be sure to enter something that meets the specifically-stated challenge criteria.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/24/2005 03:17:36 PM · #6

Now at the risk of nickle and diming the question...pixel for pixel I'm at around 30% of the canvas that includes my subject given the space that surrounds.

I'll probably go with this image anyway because it might never happen again and it was my luck to get the shot at all. A shot, I've been waiting for, for a long time.

For me there is a minimal aspect to a lot of Librodo's work. So that's how I treated the subject. He doesn't go full blown "fly in the ointment" but it's there, IMHO. Here's an example of something I would hope....for my case would pass for minimal or at least borderline.

Message edited by author 2005-04-24 15:25:01.

jrtodd

Nikon D850

04/24/2005 03:22:29 PM · #7

This time I decided to TRY to follow the challenge more closely, mine only takes up maybe 5 - 10%. Much less than my Abandoned Building anyway....

jemison

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/24/2005 03:28:25 PM · #8

Minimalism - A twentieth century art movement and style stressing the idea of reducing a work of art to the minimum number of colors, values, shapes, lines and textures. No attempt is made to represent or symbolize any other object or experience. It is sometimes called ABC art, minimal art, reductivism, and rejective art. (definition from here)

So, really, the definition of minimalism seems to have not much at all to do with the Minimalism challenge - as defined in the challenge rules.

pitsaman

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

04/24/2005 03:30:33 PM · #9

Another link

oops,too late

Message edited by author 2005-04-24 15:31:12.

bpickard

Fujifilm FinePix S3000

04/24/2005 03:34:49 PM · #10

What's minimalism?

It's.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

04/24/2005 03:43:59 PM · #11

ART MOVEMENTS

MINIMALISM
KEY DATES: 1962
Minimal Art emerged as a movement in the 1950s and continued through the Sixties and Seventies. It is a term used to describe paintings and sculpture that thrive on simplicity in both content and form, and seek to remove any sign of personal expressivity. The aim of Minimalism is to allow the viewer to experience the work more intensely without the distractions of composition, theme and so on.

There are examples of the Minimalist theory being exercised as early as the 18th century when Goethe constructed an Altar of Good Fortune made simply of a stone sphere and cube. But the 20th century sees the movement come into its own. From the 1920s artists such as Malevich and Duchamp produced works in the Minimalist vein but the movement is known chiefly by its American exponents such as Dan Flavin, Carl Andre, Ellsworth Kelly and Donald Judd who reacted against Abstract Expressionism in their stark canvases, sculptures and installations.

Minimal Art is related to a number of other movements such as Conceptual Art in the way the finished work exists merely to convey a theory, Pop Art in their shared fascination with the impersonal and Land Art in the construction of simple shapes. Minimal Art proved highly successful and has been enormously influential on the development of art in the 20th century.

REPRESENTATIVE ARTISTS: Frank Stella

Link to the above

w24x192

Canon PowerShot S50

04/24/2005 05:34:44 PM · #12

This is going to be an interesting challenge thanks to the title and description...we could be in for some upset people or some really off the wall photos.

Next week, we should have this challenge: 'Socialism - People enjoy socializing, and for this challenge, caputre people in a social situation.'

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/24/2005 09:24:44 PM · #13

Since I think this is minimalism or close to it's actual definition like the ones posted above, I think there might be some problems(for me at least)because the challenge rules are off from what I've always known it to be.

I see lot's of birds in our future...............

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

04/24/2005 09:25:52 PM · #14

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I see lot's of birds in our future...............

Skies. Nothin' but blue skies. ;-)

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

04/24/2005 09:31:25 PM · #15

Originally posted by kpriest:

Originally posted by pawdrix:
I see lot's of birds in our future...............

Skies. Nothin' but blue skies. ;-)

Water. Nothin' but blue water...........and birds.

Zed Pobre

Canon EOS-20D

04/24/2005 09:58:55 PM · #16

Originally posted by pawdrix:

While the challenge rules don't match the classical definition of minimalism, I'd have difficulty seeing your picture as minimalistic either way. Your shot has two subjects, a person and the smoke, and the person's face is expressive. It bears no resemblance to the work of Andre, for instance.

It's a beautiful shot, though.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/24/2005 10:46:26 PM · #17

Sorry. That wasn't mine but one of a wonderful photographer/member here at DPC who uses open space very well which I see as a key element to minimalism and no only the amount of space.

I was alluding to the way space was used as being more important or equally as important, to the amount of space.

Does anybody agree with that or see that as being an integral element of minimalism?

rebelo

Nikon D70

04/24/2005 11:14:39 PM · #18

I dislike how people feel the need to decide how a challenge *should* be interpreted. I think the whole idea here is to give everyone the freedom to interpret it as they see fit. If you expect that minimalism means "X" then anyone who had a different idea is going to get lower marks? That's nonsense, as art is supposed to be totally subjective.

In my opinion, the photo of the guy smoking the cigarette does fit the description of minimalist because it's a very simple shot. The depth is shallow, the background is totally out of the shot. We focus in on this one fleeting moment of a man pulling from a cigarette. A world of things may be going on in his mind, but all we are presented with is the solitude of the moment. There's no story being told. He isn't crossing a finish line, he isn't skinning a rabbit to prepare a meal. He's just at peace.

That is my idea of minimalism and everyone should be free to submit whatever their interpretation of it may be. In the case of this challenge, the rules do go on to clarify that the subject is intended to occupy "a small portion" of the image space. That, again, is open to interpretation. If you want strict guidelines, don't leave any grey area. It doesn't clearly say "one quarter of the frame", so the photographers shouldn't be worried to go with their instincts for fear of getting low ratings because someone else feels otherwise.

Neil

Fujifilm X-T30

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/24/2005 11:41:40 PM · #19

rebelo, having been here for a while, I don't think that's the best advice. For good or for bad, the way the site works, is that people DO vote their interpretation of the rules. And many people give 1's for not meeting the challenge (I don't). So if you'd like to do well, and I think everyone does, then you follow what the general member thinks of the rules.

I do take the themes with me when I go shooting, but generally, I shoot what I want. If I get one that fits and I still like it, I submit it. But if the fit is loose, there's almost no point in submitting it. Getting a low score isn't the end of the world if your picture touches some people, but after 1.5 years here, my opinion is that you'd be better off touching them by showing the pic outside of the challenge. Comments are generally pretty minimal during a challenge, and it's hard to get a feel for the acceptance of a photo with scores all over the place because so many think you didn't meet the challenge. And a low score doesn't come with an explanation usually: did they hate the shot, or just think you didn't meet the challenge. You don't know.

So while I think minimalism is a great topic, this challenge isn't minimalism, because of the description. If you don't think the majority of voters will at least think you met the challenge, why submit? You'll just get low scores, and comments on how your subject is too big. Save it for another challenge, or post it to the forum, or another site.

And wait for the challenge to come around that you can do "art" and meet the challenge.

rebelo

Nikon D70

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/25/2005 01:50:45 AM · #20

nshapiro, you raise good points. I guess to me, scores aren't important. It's just about showcasing our work. But your argument that if you just want to showcase work, you're free to do so without having to enter it to a challenge is quite true.

I guess my big plea would be that challenge rules be VERY clear about what they are looking for so that there's less grey area for voters to decide whether you did or did not meet the challenge criteria.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

04/25/2005 02:18:57 AM · #21

Originally posted by rebelo:

I dislike how people feel the need to decide how a challenge *should* be interpreted. I think the whole idea here is to give everyone the freedom to interpret it as they see fit......

rebelo-The point of this exercise was not to narrow peoples views of mininalism but hopefully to expand them or at least explore and perhaps bring to light some other possibilities.

This quote is the case in point "the photo of the guy smoking the cigarette does fit the description of minimalist because it's a very simple shot" because I'd bet serious dollars that a good deal of people might zap this shot in the challenge (even thought it's an amazing image) because of having narrow viewpoints regarding the challenge rules. It's not "out of the box" but not rigid in terms of the use of space so I'd like to float that concept.

These discussions help me see things that I may have missed all the time. I don't always warm up to different interpretations of a challenge until I'm already deep into my voting phase. That meaning, the first number of times I'd see a different way of thinking, I may have shafted the image a bit with my vote and that's being inconsistant. I don't always have time to go back and readjust things that might even get another two points from me.

I won't lie....I like getting a decent score. It must mean something to me because I hit the update button enough times per day to prove so. Better scores add up to better exposure and I enjoy being seen.

Message edited by author 2005-04-25 14:55:51.

smilebig4me1x

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

04/25/2005 02:24:15 PM · #22

i feel that if the title of the challenge is used then we will have alot of photos with alot of negitive space...if the description is used then i feel there will be more interesting photos submitted. I am not a big fan of negitive space...to me it is a waste of talent. i know there are one's who love the neg.space and im not trying to ruffle anyone feathers its just my opinion....i am still hunting for "The" photo to submit for this challenge, im hopeing it will happen for me tonight on my photo shoot run with family in tow. i have taken a hundred shots and i still havent gotten what im looking for....anyone else have this same trouble? i would be tickled pink if i had two i couldnt choose from!