DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register) 
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Suggestions >> No Cropping
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 36, (reverse)
AuthorThread
 04/22/2005 05:06:17 AM · #1
Too often I find myself cropping shots for challenges (mainly due to 640px limit in order to get more detail), but I think this could be a good way to consider the shot prior to shooting rather than relying on editing to achieve the desired framing. It would teach a thing or two about composition for those who make a habit of cropping their shots.

Additionally, it could be fun to make this an open challenge with the added benefit of cloning for clean-up but no other spot editing adjustments.

Any thoughts?
 04/22/2005 05:16:55 AM · #2
i like the idea, and can only imagine how many landscape shots would wind up with 'tilted horizon' comments ;-)
 04/22/2005 05:20:08 AM · #3
I would like it. Usually I don't crop at all.

As in basic editing I would love it if I could have cloning sensor dust possibility but skip the croping!
 04/22/2005 05:26:03 AM · #4
I don't see why we have to be so hard on ourselves all the time. At work, I would never consider prepreparing a document in my head to be word-perfect prior to typing it in: the editing and redrafting onscreen is part of the process. Why can't this be the same for photography? OK, at the scene everyone should do their best to get right those things that cannot be changed later: shooting angle and pleasing arrangement of subject(s)/background with respect to each other.....but why does it have to be the finished product? Ben
 04/22/2005 05:26:27 AM · #5
I love the idea - I'm increasingly trying to make myself to get it right in camera and I find it very helpful because it forces you to think much more carefuly about what you're actually trying to do, rather than just shooting the general area and thinking "I'll sort it out in PS later"!
 04/22/2005 05:32:15 AM · #6
Originally posted by bpickard:
I don't see why we have to be so hard on ourselves all the time.

For the "challenge" probably : )
My last uncropped entry ...

04/22/2005 05:37:40 AM · #7
I can't think of the last time I didn't crop any image - any image, for anything. A small rotate to get a level horizon, which needs a crop; an unnoticed extraneous elemnt in one edge of frame, solved with a small crop ... etc. etc. I think it's an essential skill.

That said, as a challenge it might be fun to persue; learning to balance the composition of your image as you see it with the technical details is a useful ability - particularly if you're shooting on the fly in the street, for instance.

E
 04/22/2005 05:54:57 AM · #8
Originally posted by e301:
I can't think of the last time I didn't crop any image - any image, for anything. A small rotate to get a level horizon, which needs a crop; an unnoticed extraneous elemnt in one edge of frame, solved with a small crop ... etc. etc. I think it's an essential skill.

The trouble is every crop you make, every extraneous element you fail to notice when your shooting, is robbing pixels from your final image.

I'm not saying that cropping is a bad thing; but it's just as essential a skill to try and get it all right in the first place.
 04/22/2005 06:08:52 AM · #9
Originally posted by ganders:
The trouble is every crop you make, every extraneous element you fail to notice when your shooting, is robbing pixels from your final image.

I'm not saying that cropping is a bad thing; but it's just as essential a skill to try and get it all right in the first place.

Bang-on! It matters particularly when producing prints, etc.
 04/22/2005 06:27:57 AM · #10
This brings up a question I have. I have been in photography in one way or another since the late 60's and have trained myself over this period of time to frame my image in the camera so not to have to crop the image in the darkroom. (very new to digital and the use of computers in photography so I have lots to learn)

My question is about the rule that we have to put the date in our original image that seems to me forces us to crop the final image to remove the date. For me this makes framing the image in the camera far more challenging than I am use to. How do the rest of you handle this situation with dealing with the date imprinted on your original?

Barry
04/22/2005 06:31:01 AM · #11
Barry

You don't actually need the date imprint on the shot, the data is stored in an exif file stored with the image.

This file gets corrupted sometimes when editing so you should always save the original and use a copy for editing purposes

i hope this helps
 04/22/2005 07:16:09 AM · #12
Originally posted by Barry:
...My question is about the rule that we have to put the date in our original image that seems to me forces us to crop the final image to remove the date. ...

The date (and much other information) is stored in the exif tag. This is a bit of extra data attached to the image file (it is actually added to the image file making it larger), and can be thought of as similar to the tags placed on luggage to help identify them. The date does not have to be visibly imprinted on the image.

The FAQ section under the Help menu above provides more information on exif tags and how to view the data contained in them.

David
 04/22/2005 08:06:02 AM · #13
Ben, I agree in most cases nearly everyone is going to make some tweaks to the images gathered after pulling them up on the PC. In this case, the discussion is about a Challenge...basically making it a rule for this one instance to challenge everyone that enters to "get it right", regarding the composition, when they are taking the photo initially.

I think this would be a blast (interesting test) - and could be done for either an Open (Basic editing) or Member (Advanced editing) challenge. Great idea Jon!

Originally posted by bpickard:
I don't see why we have to be so hard on ourselves all the time. At work, I would never consider prepreparing a document in my head to be word-perfect prior to typing it in: the editing and redrafting onscreen is part of the process. Why can't this be the same for photography? OK, at the scene everyone should do their best to get right those things that cannot be changed later: shooting angle and pleasing arrangement of subject(s)/background with respect to each other.....but why does it have to be the finished product? Ben

04/22/2005 08:12:26 AM · #14
Ben and Peter

Thank you for passing on this information about the exif files, I haven't had a chance to check it all out here but will do so after writing this.

Thanks again,

Barry
 04/22/2005 09:01:13 AM · #15
Just got back from cyber world checking out the exif file info that Ben and Peter passed on. I have to say I am relieved that I don't have to imprint the time and date on the image...Boy the was frustrating thinking that I had to do that then crop to take it out of the final image. I was saving the original but for the wrong reason...now on to the next question.

Thanks again,

Barry
 04/22/2005 09:07:28 AM · #16
Cropping after the picture has been initially fixed has many advantages, especially for fine-tuning a digital image, in terms tweeking an overall desired composition, for emphasis of detail, and many of the items all ready mentioned. Of course all pictures we take are already cropped by default when we peer through the rectangle of the camera viewing system. The true nature of the camera device is to frame and crop. I would suggest that no cropping is not a challenge but rather a most intuitive & elemental visual tool in forming an idea for a camera made image. I am of the opinion that it should be a requirement for all basic editing and open challenges.
 04/22/2005 09:42:44 AM · #17
Well said from a true purist standpoint, but in reality I believe one would be hard-pressed to find many popular images in the digital world that have not been altered in some manner. Cropping an image (not a slice of life cropped via camera) is second nature to digital photographers (IMO) and can many times turn a good photo into a great photo.

So, I agree with your sentiment but think to eliminate cropping from challenges on a regular basis is not realistic. I do think a specific challenge with no cropping as a rule parameter would be fun to try.

...the following is probably not related to the context of this thread but is still an issue, especially if someone wants a DPChallenge photo to match a DPCPrints photo.

I'm also finding that cropping an image is a necessity for printing to make non-standard sized digital images fit the 35mm framing/print standards (aspect ratios).

Originally posted by undieyatch:
Cropping after the picture has been initially fixed has many advantages, especially for fine-tuning a digital image, in terms tweeking an overall desired composition, for emphasis of detail, and many of the items all ready mentioned. Of course all pictures we take are already cropped by default when we peer through the rectangle of the camera viewing system. The true nature of the camera device is to frame and crop. I would suggest that no cropping is not a challenge but rather a most intuitive & elemental visual tool in forming an idea for a camera made image. I am of the opinion that it should be a requirement for all basic editing and open challenges.

04/22/2005 10:12:01 AM · #18
Originally posted by undieyatch:
I would suggest that no cropping is not a challenge but rather a most intuitive & elemental visual tool in forming an idea for a camera made image. I am of the opinion that it should be a requirement for all basic editing and open challenges.

Going back to Ed's earlier point that he can't remember the last image he didn't have to crop ... I'm very much the same. Everything I take seems to need a CCW rotation of between 0.7 and 1.4 degrees, whether I use a tripod or not! Strange that I always tilt the same way, but it does mean that I have to crop.

As a challenge it would help to hammer the discipline home, but as a fixed rule it would be an utter nightmare.
 04/22/2005 10:28:12 AM · #19
One issue to consider in this is that the viewfinder in a lot of cases does not show 100% of what the sensor will capture so extraneous items may be present however won't be noticed until later.

This may not be an issue with P & S if framing is done using the LCD. However, if using the viewfinder on these cameras there is a different issue since the view is not through the lens (ignoring EVF since this is only on a few P & S cameras). The view is slightly offset from what the lens sees.

This is where the challenge comes in. It will help each of us to know our cameras better and what compensation needs to be done in framing in order to get what is captured to match what we saw when we framed the shot before shooting.

One other thing, not all cameras use an aspect ratio perfect for prints, especially for P & S, so for this challenge other considerations would have to be made if a print is desired from the image taken.


04/22/2005 11:24:57 AM · #20
While this would be an interesting challenge as far as it goes (and one I'd enjoy because large-format photographers are basically TRAINED to compose in-camera, so I'm used to it), there's somethign nobody has brought up regarding day-to-day photography:

The camera's framing is ARBITRARY. Even between various digital cameras, there are significant differences in the proportions of the sensor rectangle. 35mm film is a much different rectangle than 4x5 film. 120 film is typically used square (2 1/4 x 2 1/4). There's nothing sacred about a given camera's framing of the image. Using a digital camera, what are you to do if you "see" a square image in front of you? Why, you frame it in the middle of you sensor, then you CROP.

How about full-frame landscapes? In the digital world, the viewfinders/lcd's are so small, and few of them have rulked lines for compositional alignment. Soif you're SMART you make that landscape a hair wider angle than youw ant it to be, so you can rotate it precisely to level in post-processing without losing any of the desired elements of the shot. That's only common sense. It's REALLY hard to level a distant horizon in a viewfinder, especially if you don't have a tripod handy at the time.

Speaking for myself, I DO compose in the camera; by far the majority of my images ARE "uncropped" in the sense that they use the full dimension of the sensor in one direction or the other, but I refuse to have my vision constrained by an arbitrarily-proportioned rectangle, so I reserve the right to impose my own framing upon the images I capture.

Still, it would make a nice challenge; I just don't agree with it as aprt of the ruleset for basic.

Robt.

04/22/2005 02:22:51 PM · #21
Who's idea was it to form a rectangular image from a round lens anyway?? It surely wastes a whole portion of the imagable area.

I believe many medium format cameras are square, negating the need to compose the shot in the familiar way - instead focusing attention only on the subject and technical influences on the photo. I'd love to know how this affects one's photography.
 04/22/2005 02:27:43 PM · #22
I think this one came out well composed. NO CROP!
04/22/2005 02:33:32 PM · #23
NO CROP...sounds like a great "skill" challenge.
 04/22/2005 02:39:30 PM · #24
Oh I don't know...think maybe a little off the left would balance this out just a tad. ;^)

Just kidding...cool photo.

Originally posted by SDW65:
I think this one came out well composed. NO CROP!

04/22/2005 03:13:50 PM · #25
Uncropped...
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 08/12/2025 08:55:48 AM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 08/12/2025 08:55:48 AM EDT.