Stuck in the Middle...with you? - DPChallenge Forums

04/11/2005 12:37:02 PM · #1

I don't want this to be a whiny why-didn't-I-place-higher thread, I'd rather it be a mutual commiseration thread for middle-grounders.

I've yet to move out of the 5.0-6.0 range, even though I felt my Pet Portrait was the best photo I've ever taken! It's tough being smack dab in the middle. It's hard to figure out where the need for improvement lies. I like my photos, so I'm not really worried that I don't have that mythical "eye", but I do wonder where my POP is. I'm lacking some sort of WOW factor! I don't rightly know what I'm asking of DPC ahaha but I guess...

Instead of slipping into woe-is-me territory, I'd just like to say thanks for all those that felt my photo DID have POP and WOW. I thought it did too ahaha. Thanks for the comments and thanks to everyone for supplying such cool photos! I had a lot of fun with this challenge...as my Roscoe kitty is the best model a photog could ask for :)

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

04/11/2005 12:45:16 PM · #2

mostly i'd say the lighting is a little off, but it's not bad (as reflected in your score). human eye's are drawn to the bright parts in a photo, which would be the back wall in this photo.

if the cat had some better lighting, it would have done better.

ps ... that chair rules!

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/11/2005 12:48:39 PM · #3

Thanks for the insight, hopper! I don't think the score is bad, either, oh no - it's just upward mobility is a little confusing ;)

I considered the lighting as mod as the rest of the photo. I thought it added a certain...ambience. Dunno, but you've given me something to consider. Lighting is an art...and one I haven't even begun to get a handle on!

PS - Hell yeah it does :p

strangeghost

Canon EOS-7D

04/11/2005 12:51:07 PM · #4

Fill the frame. The cat is your subject so get up close and personal. There's no need to have the whole chair in the composition, much less the unnecessary space above and below the chair. Get closer and let us see the individual whiskers, the expression the eyes, the face!

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/11/2005 12:58:09 PM · #5

hehehe, you mean like this one?

Thanks for the suggestions :)

strangeghost

Canon EOS-7D

04/11/2005 01:00:14 PM · #6

Well, er... yes, but in the second photo, you're so close now that the cat is no longer the subject, the nose is. And the dof is so shallow that the other visible features of the face have softened, which is probably part of what hurt you in the voting of that image. Find a happy medium. Fill the frame, but maybe not that much. ;-)

Originally posted by kdkaboom:

hehehe, you mean like this one?

Thanks for the suggestions :)

04/11/2005 01:02:47 PM · #7

True true, you're right. A happy medium is what I need in many areas of life ahaha

Again, thanks for the help :)

tristalisk

04/11/2005 01:39:19 PM · #8

Sorry the second shot made me laugh. I always look at a shot and try to understand not only why it was done but how... as for the how I visualized a huge telephoto lens with the kitten shoved head first inside of it... nothing but a tail and hind legs hanging out of the camera....sorry perverse I know... but it made me laugh. :)

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

04/11/2005 01:55:28 PM · #9

hahahah that is a funny image :p

Hardly perverse!

But no, it's just my cheezy lil Z1 on macro mode, with a very very understanding puss.

Gringo

Nikon D2X

04/11/2005 01:55:34 PM · #10

Katy, Iâ��m sitting here looking at your picture Roscoe: The Mod Cat.
There are a lot of thoughts spinning in my head on this one.

There a few things I might consider doing with this to give it a little more interest. But you can never tell if it is an improvement until you see it complete. So I hope you will read this with that in mind.

I love the chair, I love the cracks on the wall and I see so much potential in the wooden floor. I look at this picture the way it is composed here around all those elements. I feel like the cat was being cute, so you snapped a cute shot of him.

I wonder if you could have changed the angle and used the floor as leadlines to the subject. Itâ��s a beautiful floor, shooting from a very low angle would have brought that beauty out more. The low angle closer to the wall would also make the cracked wall more visible and add a little rustic character. The chairâ�¦. Hmmm Iâ��m not sure of the best angle on that one. I donâ��t mind it as it is but I wonder if it would help or hurt to see it at an angle. I could go either way with it I think. With all of this said, I would try to bring more attention to Rosco by giving him the leadlines and getting in closer to him. The bright wall works well to accentuate the unusual chair, but Iâ��m not sure itâ��s helping Rosco out much. I think as it is you have a cool picture of a chair with Rosco in the shot, rather than a cool picture of Rosco. This might be a reason this picture stopped at itâ��s 5.874 score. Not at all a bad score by the way.

Message edited by author 2005-04-11 14:07:33.

04/11/2005 02:27:46 PM · #11

HI Gringo!! Thank you so much for your thoughts on this shot! You're absolutely right, it is more about the chair, isn't it? ahaha, I just love that chair :p

As for your suggestions, I tried so many different angles, but my camera (with or without the wide angle lens accessory) was really distorting the scene. Having the chair facing forward looked horrible! And most other angles didn't work. This sideways view looked best, imo, so I went with it. There were of course other ways I could've done it, without so much focus on the mod chair, and in hindsight you are correct - I missed the portrait point :)

I am happy with my score (I rarely get upset) but I want to improve via learning, and that's what you're helping me to do. SO thank you very much for taking the time :)

Cheers!

phreakon

Olympus C-740UZ

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

04/11/2005 02:54:30 PM · #12

to kdkaboom:

You know, just because your shot didn't place as high as you thought it would, or as high as you would have liked, doesn't at all mean that it isn't a great photo. There is a lot of competition on this site. Also, the images that are really good tend to be criticized a little further as people are looking for a winner, as opposed to shots that are in the 3 to 5 range, which just didn't appeal to the voters as something spectacular. What I mean is, to the voters, if a shot is great, it has to be really really great in order to win. You had a great submission for the challenge though, don't let your score/s get you down.

Gringo

Nikon D2X

04/11/2005 02:59:35 PM · #13

Your picture is great Katy!
There are so many great shots that don't score well because they aren't as strong at conveying the challenge topic. By looking at some of your other work, I see you have an artistic eye for composition. It's real easy for me to sit in my chair here and describe all the better angles at which someone could have/should have shot a picture. I can't see the door or window or other background distractions that keeps you from shooting a new angle. The reality is that if I could see all the other elements that kept you from doing the shot in a different way, I would probably end up right where you have it now anyway.
keep on keep'in on. Great chair!

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/11/2005 03:23:53 PM · #14

Katy,

I'm sure you have already discovered that you get different opinions about your photographs from different people. Sometimes you get opposite opinions about the same elements of the image. You have to be wise enough to tell which is best. My input will be no different! :)

First, your pet image is your second highest rated image so voters almost agree with you that it is your best work. Personally, I don't think it holds a candle to either your "love lane" image (one of my favorites in it's challenge) or your flower in the pink challenge and probably others.

Be it for me to disagree with a photographer as great as Gringo but it just looks like a candid snapshot to me. The perspective is strait on like a snapshot and the wall, cracks, floor and lighting do not support the composition in a meaningful nor a strong way. There are good possibilities there but they were not exploited.

Instead, it looks like things just happened to be there when you snapped the shutter. Those elements don't add significantly to the composition. That is why folks have suggested a closeup and different lighting.

The best way to learn is to study the images that place higher than your own in DPC challenges and ask yourself what it is about them that made people think they were better than yours. Take a dispassionate view of your own work.

There is no substitute for technical quality. That should ALWAYS be your first concern. No matter how good the image is if it lacks technical excellence then it generally will not and should not do well.

Every image needs to have one or more strong photographic qualities like lighting, composition, perspective or impact among other possibilities to make it memorable and pleasing to the viewer and set it apart from the ordinary. The best images have both technical quality and some sort of strong photographic quality.

But all you gave the viewer with your pet portrait is a candid cat moment and that was not even the dominent element of the scene. Instead of the cat... the wall, floor and chair dominate the picture.

When processing a picture for others to see ask yourself what special "something" the picture has to offer. If you can't figure out what it is then nobody else will be able to figure it out either.

04/12/2005 12:46:53 PM · #15

phreakon - thank you for the comments! Just to clarify, I think it is a good shot and I have no problem with my score... Like I said in the first post, I don't want this to be a woe-is-me thread! I am trying, not very hard mind you, to wrap my head around that WOW factor. Just another learning experience, but thank you kindly for your comments.

Gringo - Hello again! Thanks for the boost :) I will indeed keep on keepin on, it's all I can do, right? Great chair! :p

Stdavidson - Wow, thank you so much for the lengthy comment! I really do appreciate all perspectives, and your comments have given me a lot to consider! It's funny that you should say this:

...it just looks like a candid snapshot to me. The perspective is strait on like a snapshot and the wall, cracks, floor and lighting do not support the composition in a meaningful nor a strong way. There are good possibilities there but they were not exploited.

I thought all those elements were adding to the "modness" of the shot. I still think they do ahaha even if others don't. I don't feel I'm being stubborn, simply it's my opinion. I've been doing workshops for my poetry for years, and I've developed quite the thick-skin. Rhino skin! I've managed to take an objective and, yes, dispassionate view of my art in order to say YAY or NAY. This particular photo is a YAY in my book...but of course there is ALWAYS room for improvement!

When processing a picture for others to see ask yourself what special "something" the picture has to offer. If you can't figure out what it is then nobody else will be able to figure it out either.

This, I agree with 100%. And THAT is what I'm working on :)

As for technical excellence, my shitty lil minolta only goes so far. I've gotten some good shots with it, I THINK, but I'm feeling that I'll only be able to get better if I have more control. The Z1 isn't about control at all. If anything, it controls me.

Sob!

But really, I appreciate all the comments and thoughts here. I had hoped I wouldn't have sounded needy, but I guess I did alittle :p

Thanks again!

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

04/12/2005 01:14:11 PM · #16

Originally posted by kdkaboom:

... As for technical excellence, my shitty lil minolta only goes so far. I've gotten some good shots with it, I THINK, but I'm feeling that I'll only be able to get better if I have more control. The Z1 isn't about control at all. If anything, it controls me.