The Terri Shiavo Controversy - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

03/22/2005 08:25:36 PM · #126

"As an observation, being that the republicans are almost unanimously in favor of "saving" Terri's life, " I would say it shows who is more moral.

Judith Polakoff

Nikon D7000

03/22/2005 08:26:12 PM · #127

Heart failure is a common result of eating disorders. Bone fractures and breaks are a common result of eating disorders. Terri saw a doctor about the problem initially because she had stopped menstruating, another common result of eating disorders in women. And as to whether there is wide agreement that she had an eating disorder, a jury awarded her over a million dollars because her doctor failed to treat her properly for her eating disorder, a case in which I'm sure there was medical testimony attesting to her eating disorder, and a jury believed it sufficiently to find in her favor.

If the parents thought there was foul play, why did they not do an investigation and bring charges against the husband years ago? They've certainly had enough time.

Message edited by author 2005-03-22 20:29:55.

bdobe

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

03/22/2005 08:28:27 PM · #128

RonB,

Why do you find it so essential to smear and disparage the husband by spreading such unfounded and inflammatory accusations?

This tragic situation is about euthanasia (ethics and legality) and about individual/private rights (i.e., letting a husband/family -- a long with trained medical professionals; and, tragically, in this case, legal council -- determine what is "best" for them, without intervention by a government entity). What agenda, I wonder, is advanced by seeking to attack any individual associated with this case? As others have noted, it's been 15 years, and if any irregularities were, in fact, there, they would've been unearthed long ago. It is curious that a campaign against the husband has been mounted at all; and that, I suspect, such a campaign is being carried out via the usual suspect channels: FoxNews, right-wing talk radio and their accompanying vehicles -- blogs, spoke-persons, etc.

Message edited by author 2005-03-22 20:29:40.

MadMordegon

03/22/2005 08:38:52 PM · #129

Originally posted by David Ey:

"As an observation, being that the republicans are almost unanimously in favor of "saving" Terri's life, " I would say it shows who is more moral.

One thing is for sure, if you watched the proceedings in the congress, the republicans are lying to push their view, an exerpt from REP. TRENT FRANKS:

"Terri Schiavo lives among us in the shadows of life. But she is not brain-dead or comatose. She is awake and she is able to hear, sheâ��s able to see, she is often alert. She can feel pain. She interacts with her environment. She laughs, she cries, she expresses joy when her parents visit her and sorrow when they leave."

frychikn

Olympus C-5050Z

03/22/2005 08:39:59 PM · #130

Originally posted by MadMordegon:

Originally posted by queanbeez:
well whats the diff? he's starving her to death

Though I personally think she should be euthanized instead of dehydrated, she cannot feel any suffering from removing her feeding tube.

How the hell do you know that?

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

03/22/2005 08:40:47 PM · #131

bdobe,MadMo....can you define exactly what amount of brain damage is just enough that the human body is no longer of any value? How about physical damage? Is there an amount that would cause one to no longer be of any use to a social society? Who should make these decisions?

bdobe

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

03/22/2005 08:54:27 PM · #132

Originally posted by David Ey:

"As an observation, being that the republicans are almost unanimously in favor of "saving" Terri's life, " I would say it shows who is more moral.

Interesting that you should attempt to frame the situation this way.

This tragic case: Shiavo's sad condition and subsequent intervention into it by the federal government (at the behest of the Republican leadership), should be extremely illustrative of what has become of the Republican party -- and what faction of the social-conservative movement has taken control of its helm. Any moderate Republican, concerned with limited government, should be paying close attention at how social/cultural issues are being used by the social-conservative faction that's at the helm of the Republican party to advance their agenda. Ladies and gentleman, what this faction of the Republican party is really after is imposing and codefying their brand of "morality" on us -- and, to do so, the social-conservative wing of the Republican party is willing to enlist the full-weight of the federal government on its behalf; thus abandoning any long-held pretense of being the party of state rights and of limited government. If we -- the citizens of this country -- are not careful, we may very well see a federal government that is permitted into our bedrooms (i.e.,"Gay marriage"), is able to use surveillance on its citizens (i.e., expanded "Patriot Act") and, now, it seems, the federal government is being urged to intervene into what should be the most private of decisions -- all because a certain faction within the Republican party deems it expedient to do so in support of their agenda.

Again, I sincerely hope that so-called moderates everywhere are paying close attention to this case... because there'll be more like it if we permit it.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

03/22/2005 08:56:15 PM · #133

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by RayEthier:
... surely even if you do believe that he committed some nefarious act, the statute of limitations would have long come and gone, or are things that different in the USA???

Just a thought...

Ray

Laws vary from state to state, but I do not believe there is a statute of limitations for first-degree murder.

However, this case has been investigated, analyzed, and litigated to a sufficient extent that if there was a question of a crime having been committed, the evidence should have surfaced by now, and charges filed. That there have been none would seem to speak to the nature and motivation of any such accusations ...

I have no argument whatsoever with your contentions regarding First degree murder General... the only problem in this instance is that no one has been murdered. It could be argued that an assault might have been committed, but as you so eloquently stated, had there been any evidence to support such allegations, surely it would have surfaced by now.

Ray

Judith Polakoff

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

03/22/2005 08:56:37 PM · #134

Originally posted by David Ey:

You didn't ask me for my opinion, but I feel compelled to respond to this question, and my response to your last question is we each, ideally, should make the decision for ourselves. If we are to believe the husband's representations concerning Terri Schiavo's wishes in this regard, and I personally believe he is telling the truth, then she has determined for herself the quality of life issue and it's not proper for any of us to butt our noses into that decision.

03/22/2005 09:05:54 PM · #135

Originally posted by David Ey:

Well, there are these thing called "laws," "courts" and "judges." There are also ranks of "lawyers" who present opposing sides of an argument to a judge to pursuade him (or her) that the law favors their position. Using members of this thing called the "medical community," consisting of, among other things, specialists and bioethicist who make determination in order to help the court to clarify the parties' positions, the judges attempt to apply those things I mentioned earlier called laws. Whichever side the judge believes, based on the law and precedent, has the best argument wins. If the losing party feels that the judge has ruled mistakenly, they are able to appeal to a higher court.

The above description has happened numerous times in this particular case and in each ruling the defendant, Michael Shiavo, has won.

03/22/2005 09:09:16 PM · #136

you (y'all) aren't answering the questions

Message edited by author 2005-03-22 21:09:58.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

03/22/2005 09:12:43 PM · #137

Originally posted by David Ey:

you (y'all) aren't answering the questions

Honestly, I'd like to see your answer first.

bdobe

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

03/22/2005 09:14:47 PM · #138

Originally posted by David Ey:

you (yall) aren't answering the questions

You're just not happy with the answers. I'm in agreement with what Judith and Milo have laid out. Your question is loaded and ridiculous; and, since I'm a lay person, not holding any degrees in neuroscience, I cannot provide a sound and quantifiable answer to your question. Accordingly, anything you or I can offer would be entirely subjective and, therefore, irrelevant to the question at hand.

Message edited by author 2005-03-22 21:16:09.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

03/22/2005 09:14:55 PM · #139

Originally posted by David Ey:

you (y'all) aren't answering the questions

Perhaps you did not take the time to peruse and digest the contents of the previous submission made by milo655321, wherein he eloquently and with great aplomb opines that the rendering of decisions of this magnitude does not rest with us, but rather are matters that the courts have to adjudicate.

Ray

03/22/2005 09:22:08 PM · #140

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by David Ey:
you (y'all) aren't answering the questions

Perhaps you did not take the time to peruse and digest the contents of the previous submission made by milo655321, wherein he eloquently and with great aplomb opines that the rendering of decisions of this magnitude does not rest with us, but rather are matters that the courts have to adjudicate.

Ray

I'm blushing.

MadMordegon

03/22/2005 09:23:25 PM · #141

A pretty large amount of information about Terri and this case Wikipedia, Terri Schiavo

From that, to answer questions posted by others:

"Most of Schiavo's cerebral cortex has been completely destroyed, replaced by spinal fluid; Dr. Ron Cranford, a neurologist at the University of Minnesota assessed Schiavo's brain function in 2001 as part of a court-ordered assessment. He was quoted in Florida Today as saying "[Schiavo] has no electrical activity in her cerebral cortex on an EEG (electroencephalogram), and a CT (computerized tomography) scan showed massive atrophy in that region."

Emphesis mine.

03/22/2005 09:34:00 PM · #142

Originally posted by milo655321:

Originally posted by David Ey:
you (y'all) aren't answering the questions

Honestly, I'd like to see your answer first.

Originally posted by David Ey:

.........and such easy questions too.....first, no brain waves, second, physical damage has no value when considering a persons worth and third, the person in the body should make this decision but when they didn't, our wonderful society should protect them.

Oh Ray! What beautiful language you use!

03/22/2005 09:40:25 PM · #143

Originally posted by David Ey:

So you're saying if an infant is born with a condition similar to Terri Shiavo's, society should keep the infant alive through adulthood for the next 72-odd years?

03/22/2005 09:43:11 PM · #144

lets see, Is this your child we are talking about here?

03/22/2005 09:43:52 PM · #145

Originally posted by David Ey:

lets see, Is this your child we are talking about here?

Any hypothetical child would do.

MadMordegon

03/22/2005 09:46:22 PM · #146

In continuing to read from the Wikipedia entry, I found this:

"On March 11, media tycoon Robert Herring (who believes that embryonic stem cell research could cause Schiavo's condition to be curable in the future) offered $1 million to Michael Schiavo if he agreed to waive his guardianship to his wife's parents. He rejected the offer, as he had rejected other monetary offers, including one of $10 million. The offer expired on March 14, 2005, four days before her feeding tube was removed. Schiavo's attorney, George J. Felos, said his client found the offer "offensive"."

This should calm the calls that he is "in it for the money".

03/22/2005 09:47:56 PM · #147

well, I don't think I am qualified to play God, But if you do....I quess that is something you would have to live with.
Would you like to place your hand over her nose and mouth until she could no longer take a breath?

03/22/2005 09:51:44 PM · #148

Originally posted by David Ey:

Would you like to place your hand over her nose and mouth until she could no longer take a breath?

Are you suggesting this is the most humane way to die?

03/22/2005 09:56:04 PM · #149

No Milo, I am suggesting she should be kept alive. I am suggesting she should be kept alive.I am suggesting she should be kept alive.I am suggesting she should be kept alive.I am suggesting she should be kept alive.I am suggesting she should be kept alive.I am suggesting she should be kept alive.I am suggesting she should be kept alive.I am suggesting she should be kept alive.
Got It Milo?
goodnight Milo.