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03/14/2005 12:57:32 PM · #51 |
While I think we all appreciate having skilled and sometimes professional photographers among our ranks people like jonpink need to understand that most of us are here because we're not (yet) great photographers. We're here to learn and while we appreciate constructive criticism you will become a lot less appreciated as soon as you start talking down to us.
And a big THANK YOU to Stephanie and the other 9 people that gave my AA entry a 10. :) That shot wasn't taken specially for the challenge but it worked out well and I'm quite pleased with it. I've actually got a slightly better version of it too now that I'm getting better at Photoshop.
Well done everyone that submitted to the AA challenge. I enjoyed all the submissions and I thought the standard was very high.
John
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03/14/2005 01:03:14 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
The best and most AA-like image in the challenge, in my opinion, is this one:
It has it all. |
That should have been within the top 10 at least. |
Thanks! But it's probably too subtle (read: boring for some folks?). It got the score I thought it would get, and I'm pleased when any of my photos gets above a 6! However, now that you mention it, and since I'm so pleased with how it turned out, you can take a look at the marvelous textures and tones I was able to capture! The highlights and the shadows all have nice texture in them. Not my best work, but technically, I think I did really well on it. As long as I have your attention, here's the shot I didn't enter:
I think it's a bit more dramatic, but technically not as proficient and not as Ansel Adams either.
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03/14/2005 01:13:59 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Originally posted by rex07734:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
but to shoot and change your style in order to ribbon is a sell out. |
Agreed |
Then why put your shots in the challenges? lol Hello! wake up call..you complain that you don't get ribbons and your pictures get low scores. |
Hello! wake up call.. I don't think you have ever heard me complain about where my photos finnish in a challenge and I have never complained about not getting a covetted high dollar virtual ribbon. I enter the challenges for feedback and for something to do.
If you wish to let DPC dictate your style I guess that is your business. I have a certain degree of selve confidence about my work. |
hmm..I don't let dpc dictate my style of work..if it wasn't for the voters I wouldn't the photographer I am today.
Your thread title is what caught my eye. It seems to me you wanted a good arguement from what I gathered..so I am giving it to you. :-)) |
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03/14/2005 01:14:51 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
I'm sorry general, but after reading this thread I fail to see where Jon called anyone's photo a disgrace... |
A casual or careless reading of the title of the thread might give people that impression. Either that, or he's saying that as voters we ourselves are a disgrace.
Either way, I just think it's an emotionally-charged word, almost guaranteed to divert attention from the photographic criticism to a discussion of the attitude of the poster. Compare these two lines:
AA Results a Disgrace?
I'm Severely Disappointed with AA Results
The latter owns and expresses a personal opinion. The other puts forth the proposition that the actions of the voters are severely flawed. Ultimatey, information conveyed may be nearly identical, but one is likely to garner support and create a useful discussion of photographic techniques and values, the other will probably lead to a discussion of the personalities and communications skills of the photographers. |
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03/14/2005 01:18:02 PM · #55 |
I appreciate Jon's point of view although possibly it could have been tempered. My photo came in 9th. I spent quite a bit of time composing the picture and then working on it. I do know that it lacked a central focus and had some wash out of the clouds. I took great care to try and get the most DOF I could and the best tonal range possible under the conditions. All in all I was happy with the results.
I recognize that it lacks the true dimensions to make it an AA photo. For most of us on this site the point is to learn so a thread like this is part of that process. I learned a great deal with this challenge. I tried to apply what I learned. For that I was rewarded with more votes than my normal entries. But next time â€Â¦Ã¢€Â¦Ã¢€Â¦.
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03/14/2005 01:20:08 PM · #56 |
I think all the higher scoring photos were great efforts and deserved to be there. Some shots that didn't place as well had more detail or the tremendous depth of field I'd expect from AA, but it's difficult to cover all the bases. That's why Ansel's famous and we're students. The fact that an actual AA photo finished 4th shows that the voters understood what to look for, but might have favored a better scene over better technical prowess. I personally wouldn't know zones from ozone, but I have admired many Ansel prints over the years, and I have my own opinions about the qualities that make them special- what "feels" like an Ansel shot to me.
To address Sonifo's point, if I didn't allow the opinions of others to influence my photography, then my efforts here would be completely wasted. What is the point of posting for comments if you don't heed them? Nobody's opinion is going to change what I like, but it might very well help me improve what I would have shot anyway.
Message edited by author 2005-03-14 13:22:28. |
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03/14/2005 01:22:24 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
Let me clarify for those that don't read. I haven't said the results were a disgrace, my thread title is a question (this is why it ends with a question mark) it is not a statement.
Sheesh :D |
Asking a rhetorical question carries the implication that the poser posits the stated case, and dares the others to disagree. |
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03/14/2005 01:31:22 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Originally posted by rex07734:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
but to shoot and change your style in order to ribbon is a sell out. |
Agreed |
Then why put your shots in the challenges? lol Hello! wake up call..you complain that you don't get ribbons and your pictures get low scores. |
Hello! wake up call.. I don't think you have ever heard me complain about where my photos finnish in a challenge and I have never complained about not getting a covetted high dollar virtual ribbon. I enter the challenges for feedback and for something to do.
If you wish to let DPC dictate your style I guess that is your business. I have a certain degree of selve confidence about my work. |
hmm..I don't let dpc dictate my style of work..if it wasn't for the voters I wouldn't the photographer I am today.
Your thread title is what caught my eye. It seems to me you wanted a good arguement from what I gathered..so I am giving it to you. :-)) |
I love a good argument, but it wasn't my thread title. I actually don't agree with every point Jon has made nor the way he stated it. I do however defend his right to make the statements he has made.
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03/14/2005 01:33:03 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by jonpink:
Let me clarify for those that don't read. I haven't said the results were a disgrace, my thread title is a question (this is why it ends with a question mark) it is not a statement.
Sheesh :D |
Asking a rhetorical question carries the implication that the poser posits the stated case, and dares the others to disagree. |
It's not nice to call people posers.
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03/14/2005 01:36:20 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
It's not nice to call people posers. |
Perhaps you are confusing it with poseur:
n : a person who habitually pretends to be something he is not
Many of us use models who are frequent posers. |
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03/14/2005 01:40:03 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
It's not nice to call people posers. |
Perhaps you are confusing it with poseur:
n : a person who habitually pretends to be something he is not
Many of us use models who are frequent posers. |
Yet again every thread turns into a lesson in english.... |
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03/14/2005 01:41:43 PM · #62 |
Jon, I think some of your thoughts are similar to SDW65's also. THere are a bunch of folks with different "uses" for DPC and I am personally glad to see such a great photogrpaher as yourself still willing to question and persue his own vision.
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03/14/2005 01:41:52 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
It's not nice to call people posers. |
Perhaps you are confusing it with poseur:
n : a person who habitually pretends to be something he is not
Many of us use models who are frequent posers. |
Yes, but they like to be called models.
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03/14/2005 02:01:23 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
Yet again every thread turns into a lesson in english.... |
French actually. : )
Anyway, I did like the red-ribbon photo a lot, but I agree there was too much NeatImage (or similar) type processing in many of the entries ... I was expecting a more gritty-looking, older style. |
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03/14/2005 02:10:21 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Originally posted by rex07734:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
but to shoot and change your style in order to ribbon is a sell out. |
Agreed |
Then why put your shots in the challenges? lol Hello! wake up call..you complain that you don't get ribbons and your pictures get low scores. |
When did I complain about where my photo scores in any given challenge? I don't give a rat's ass where it places. I didn't even enter the AA Challenge. I put the photos in for feedback on what I can do to improve. It is not like I am competing for a million dollars. IT IS A "VIRTUAL" RIBBON.
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03/14/2005 02:19:35 PM · #66 |
I didn't read the entire post, I must admit, but I think the top entries are superb. In the meantime, my top pick didn't get top 3 but very close.
I'm also very honoured to have placed in the top 20 among such great shots. And I too used Neat Image; I used it on my sky after I was finished burning to remove excessive noise.
One final thought - I think if Ansel Adams were alive and shooting digital, he would use any tool at his disposal to get the image he envisioned.
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03/14/2005 02:20:53 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by rex07734:
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Originally posted by rex07734:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
but to shoot and change your style in order to ribbon is a sell out. |
Agreed |
Then why put your shots in the challenges? lol Hello! wake up call..you complain that you don't get ribbons and your pictures get low scores. |
When did I complain about where my photo scores in any given challenge? I don't give a rat's ass where it places. I didn't even enter the AA Challenge. I put the photos in for feedback on what I can do to improve. It is not like I am competing for a million dollars. IT IS A "VIRTUAL" RIBBON. |
Then I guess my comments didn't pertain to you? :-))
Is that all you think it is? It means more to mean then a "VIRTUAL" RIBBON.
It would be nice to have more serious entries. Voting on photos that are entered just for critiques are a pain to vote on. hmmm..I guess that is why I give up voting.
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03/14/2005 02:25:41 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by jonpink:
Yet again every thread turns into a lesson in english.... |
French actually. : )
Anyway, I did like the red-ribbon photo a lot, but I agree there was too much NeatImage (or similar) type processing in many of the entries ... I was expecting a more gritty-looking, older style. |
Thanks General! I used NeatImage for the first time here just to clean it up a bit for 640 resolution (maybe too much). At full-res there is much more detail in the rock/shrubs, but in my opinion looked a little too busy when so small. When I get home from work I'll post it here. |
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03/14/2005 02:37:56 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Originally posted by rex07734:
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Originally posted by rex07734:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
but to shoot and change your style in order to ribbon is a sell out. |
Agreed |
Then why put your shots in the challenges? lol Hello! wake up call..you complain that you don't get ribbons and your pictures get low scores. |
When did I complain about where my photo scores in any given challenge? I don't give a rat's ass where it places. I didn't even enter the AA Challenge. I put the photos in for feedback on what I can do to improve. It is not like I am competing for a million dollars. IT IS A "VIRTUAL" RIBBON. |
Then I guess my comments didn't pertain to you? :-))
Is that all you think it is? It means more to mean then a "VIRTUAL" RIBBON.
It would be nice to have more serious entries. Voting on photos that are entered just for critiques are a pain to vote on. hmmm..I guess that is why I give up voting. |
I enter a challenge if I have a photo that was taken that I feel fits it. What I am saying is I don't enter it and sit and wait on a ribbon. I wait on comments they mean the most to me. I don't care for a ribbon and I don't shoot to win a ribbon. I shoot and submit what looks good to me. Look back at my "Bridges II and "Light on White" entries. My favorite two I have taken that is on this website. I like my bridge entry so much because I thought I got the right light that I will probably get a print of it. And if you read the comments most are very constructive and to get comments from other people it points out stuff I missed. Example srbrubaker's commment on that photo pointed out something I had missed entirely and that is more valuable to me than any "VIRTUAL RIBBON"
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03/14/2005 02:40:36 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Originally posted by rex07734:
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Originally posted by rex07734:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
but to shoot and change your style in order to ribbon is a sell out. |
Agreed |
Then why put your shots in the challenges? lol Hello! wake up call..you complain that you don't get ribbons and your pictures get low scores. |
When did I complain about where my photo scores in any given challenge? I don't give a rat's ass where it places. I didn't even enter the AA Challenge. I put the photos in for feedback on what I can do to improve. It is not like I am competing for a million dollars. IT IS A "VIRTUAL" RIBBON. |
Then I guess my comments didn't pertain to you? :-))
Is that all you think it is? It means more to mean then a "VIRTUAL" RIBBON.
It would be nice to have more serious entries. Voting on photos that are entered just for critiques are a pain to vote on. hmmm..I guess that is why I give up voting. |
So are images that are the result of ribbon chasing that show obvious signs of trying too hard. We all have our own reasons for being here, and I would bet the many of the images that are entered into these challenges solely for critiques and feedback are some of the more interesting entries.
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03/14/2005 02:45:39 PM · #71 |
So, let me propose this. Everyone who submits their photos more for critique than for ribbons, toe the line. GIVE what you are asking for.
Maybe this way I'll get more than one comment on my poor old middle of the road Lines entry...
I'm convinced that reading the forums and arguing must be a lot more fun than commenting on images... |
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03/14/2005 02:47:20 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by nards656:
toe the line. |
I pretty much do. I comment on a lot more then mine are commented on.
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03/14/2005 02:54:47 PM · #73 |
One thing that crossed my mind, and was my first interpretation of jon's post was that, while these are great B/W images, Ansel Adams is certainly not the first thing that comes to mind when I view them. Great images? Yes. Ansel Adams (to me)? Not quite.
And I notice that a lot of the people taking this stance did not even enter the Ansel Adams Challenge (nor did I), so it's certainly not a matter of jealousy or dissapointment over my placement. In fact, I know that these images are much stronger than I could've produced - but I don't think that that was the idea/point of the thread.
Message edited by author 2005-03-14 15:10:59.
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03/14/2005 02:57:59 PM · #74 |
I was going to, and probably should, stay out of this discussion, as I know next to nothing about Ansel Adams. However, I feel that some of the opinions stated here are missing, or perhaps glossing over, an important fact about some the photos being discussed here. Much of the discussion has involved comparisons between the winning and non-winning photos use of the ‘zone system’, or lack thereof. But, the range of tones and their placement within an image are not the only aspects that make up a good photo, even an Ansel Adams photo. I feel quite sure that subject matter and composition were just as important to Mr. Adams as they are to most other photographers. To put it rather crudely, a photo of a turd, no matter how great the range and placement of tones, is still a photo of a turd. Of course, for some of you, a well-photographed turd may be just the thing, but it just isn’t my cup of tea. And, even a photo of a turd is better with a good composition.
In my opinion, all of the ribbon winning photos in this challenge display a good range of tones, and a depth-of-field appropriate for their subject matter and composition. And, they all have interesting subjects and good compositions.
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03/14/2005 02:58:43 PM · #75 |
Here is a good way to get comments, anyone that comments on my photos I will return the favor.
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