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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> I think it is time for me to sit out for a while
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 03/14/2005 01:31:50 AM · #1
I don̢۪t see myself improving here at DPChallenge. I seem to be wedged in the middle and regrettably the middle doesn̢۪t get you comments to help you progress. I guess I see things in a different way than others or my approach at photography is not on a parallel plain with the majority of the DPC style.

I am not complaining about my scores or other̢۪s style. If I do have one criticism, and I am as guilty as everyone else, it would be that we are swift to comment on photographs we score high and comment on a number of the ones we score low but most of us let the average scoring pictures go by lacking a comment.

Because of this I need to take a break from DPChallenge for a while. I need to take matters in my own hands and just take pleasure in my photography. With any luck I will find the answer to the dullness others see in my photography and be able to revisit to challenges in the future with an approach that will offer photographs to enjoy.

Thanks to everyone that has commented on my photographs during challenges, portfolio, and in the forums. Your comments have helped. I will be login on to post in my portfolio and maybe in forums. But as stated above, it̢۪s time to step back and evaluate my photography and see if it fits or is good enough for this venue.
Thanks everyone,
Scott W.

Message edited by author 2005-03-14 01:38:01.
 03/14/2005 01:38:07 AM · #2
Sorry to hear this, Scott. I will miss you and your entries. Hope to see you around the boards and posting again in challenges soon. Be well, and best of luck on your adventures. :)

Stephanie
 03/14/2005 02:00:48 AM · #3
Scott, take your time and listen to your heart. I have known for a long time that my tastes and DPC's overall tastes are world's apart. I also know that my photography is barely beyond snapshots so far. So I sit back and enjoy the community and I learn form picking and choosing. I guess what I am trying (poorly) to say is that I think it doesn't have to be either/or. I really don't enter many challenges anymore, but I also feel I am very much active still with DPC. I have pulled back at times, like you, and this is good. But then I miss the good parts here. On the one hand, I am no where near the skill level of most here, but I also don't necessarily want to emulate all that I see here. I hope you stay with me here and help round out the community with me.
03/14/2005 02:07:40 AM · #4
Now would be a good time for you to pursue your own personal interests rather than following the drummer. Find your own niche and work within it and produce many images that make you happy. Challenge after challenge after challenge won't 'improve' your photography. You will grow to some extent, but the variation in the challenge itself will keep you from being 'good' on this site consistently. It's difficult to produce high scoring images on topics that don't grab your inner spirit.

If you find your personal interests and start pursuing them with enthusiasm, you may find that challenge entry becomes less appealing. You will want to dedicate your time and effort elsewhere.
 03/14/2005 02:07:45 AM · #5
Scott, I do hope you take the comments posted by Kylie into consideration before you take any actions.

I know that you have provided a great deal of help to me and others in DPC, and that the comments you make are well thought out and address the crux of the matter in whatever is being discussed.

DPC is a better place with you in it... so I would urge you to stay.

Ray
 03/14/2005 02:08:59 AM · #6
The most important thing is to enjoy your own photography - definitely first and foremost. After that, I would just suggest to work on really pleasing your own eyes and not worrying about others. It's unfortunate that comments work in a reverse bell curve type fashion, but it's also often for the very reason that the middle-of-the-road pictures are more difficult to comment on, not always having something distinctly wrong with them.

Anywho, my latest DPC philosophy has been to not really get tied into taking shots for the challenges. I shoot for myself, and if something happens to fit a challenge I will submit it. Occasionally a challenge comes along where I 'just have to participate'. I think that going out of our ways to take a specific shot and then watching it not meet our expectations (in results, and without many comments to explain why) can be tough, which is partly why I don't do it that way anymore.

edit: Looks like John said what I was trying to say, except in much fewer words. And to clarify (after rereading my own post), I'm not trying to justify the results/trend in comments, but trying to encourage you that it's not what's important when it comes to your photography and to really just do what you think is best for now (especially if continuing to submit here challenge after challenge will ruin your photographic spirit - as I'm sure it has at one point or another to many people, including myself, after watching a favorite shot get hammered in the ratings).

Message edited by author 2005-03-14 02:12:37.
 03/14/2005 02:34:48 AM · #7
I hear you, and I'm right there with you. I have found myself in that same rut, with nothing but a strage mix of resoundingly positive comments and sub-5 scores. I don't know what I can do to improve, but I need time away from the 'drummer boy' too :)

good luck, and don't let the ducks get you down!
 03/14/2005 02:50:24 AM · #8
Thanks everyone for your kind words and advice. I̢۪m not going to leave the site, I enjoy it too much and even more the friends I have made. If my membership were up tomorrow I would renew with no hesitation. I just believe I need to step back and not worry as much about the challenges but follow my style of photography. I have found myself trying to cater to the challenge more than catering to my style, which to the ones that knows me is emotion. I was out yesterday and today taking pictures for the lines challenge. And as I look back I can close my eyes and see pictures in my mind that I should of taken for my enjoyment but I let go by trying to get the lines shot. I believe I̢۪m not doing myself justice if I pass by a photograph that appeals to me in attempt to find one for a challenge.

I will be here posting in the forums and PM friends and adding to my portfolio. I just don̢۪t see submitting to a challenge unless as stated by a few I happen to have a shot I like that fits the challenge.

So for now challenges are off limits to me as I try to visualize my photography style and learn how to capture it so that others can enjoy. I will post my style photography in my portfolio and grow as an individual. I hope you find the time to visit my portfolio and leave a comment or two.
Thanks everyone,
Scott W.
03/14/2005 05:27:11 AM · #9
Scott,

I hope it's not an imposition but I just went and placed honest and (I hope) constructive comments on your last 10 challenge entries. I can really sympathise with the mid-level, no comments syndrome.

Like you I've started to feel that the challenges dictated my photography. At the moment I pretty much only enter if something I've taken happens to fit the challenge (as it did with the Ansel Adams challenge). I now shoot what *I* want to shoot. I've been arguing for regular free study challenges here for that reason.

To me the ability to shoot what interests me is an important part of the creative process and creativity is a big part of what I'm trying to learn.

Having looked through some of your images it's clear that you have a good eye for a scene composition, especially framing. Your most unsuccessful shots are those where you allowed the challenge subject to dictate your work too strongly. You have a good style but there's a definite problem with loss of detail in some of your most recent shots. I'm not really sure what's going on but that will be really hurting your scores since the voters here like really sharp contrasty images. Achieving that without over sharpening is tricky.

Good luck with your photography and I hope you can get back to enjoying it. Shoot what YOU want to shoot. Experiment with styles that interest you. Forget the challenges for a while. And come back and post your work for us in the forums. If something happens to fit a challenge then great.

John
 03/14/2005 06:46:35 AM · #10
I think you need to work out why you want to take photographs?
And what you want to do with the photographs you take.
I'm approaching a years worth of membership and the stuff I've learnt in that year makes me embarrassed about my photography in the decade prior to joining.
Anyway, by my joining this site, it has given me the confidence to show others my photography and I have actually sold one print to a friend and he is interested in more.
Your average is only slightly lower than mine and I've been here longer.
I think I got lucky in a couple of challenges and got a couple of ribbons and if I hadn't have won those ribbons, then I would be despondent and be questioning my pictures.
But the truth is that I just love taking pictures.
Firstly for myself and then so others can go "ooh, what a great picture" and "you've got a great eye".
It may sound conceited and self centered, but that's why we like the comments isn't it?
For some praise and attention?
I can't remember what my original point was now!!
I think it was something to do with me not being entirely happy with my overall results either, but when I look at the pictures I've taken as a whole, then they have given me the confidence and enabled me to take more pictures and allowed more of my friends to see my stuff which they ordinarily wouldn't have seen.
And that has given me pleasure.
Or something like that :-)
 03/14/2005 06:56:00 AM · #11
Scott, your judging your improvement on DPC results and DPC comments no?

I wouldn't tie any single element with DPC rankings and actual ability together myself. There is a style here that has developed over the years, and that style tends to do well (such as soft neatimaged over saturated images) that is a style unique to DPC, you don't get it anywhere else.

I can assure you after years of visiting photographic galleries, and reading hundreds of coffee table photography books, what does well on DPC is as much different to what does well in the real world as chalk is too cheese so I wouldn't put too much weight on results here.

03/14/2005 07:07:34 AM · #12
I thought the exact thing a few days ago. I agree with you but keep in mind, it's NOT always the comments that will help you improve.

For the last month I haven't been taking "My Shot". I've been taking DPC shots....nothing that satisfied me, suited my eye or style. In fact, I think my composition has gotten worse in some cases. I've been hating my last months output with maybe two exceptions.

There is something to be said for taking things out of your hands, in terms of playing in someone elses arena (The DPC Arena), that has great value. It forces you out of your comfort zone and if you can figure out how to survive within, that's great. For example....I'm not a Surrealist so why would I even bother. It's nothing that really interests me, that much, outside of Dali and Magritte. Because it was great mental exercise, that's what made it worth while. You also need to divorce yourself from that stuff too. Distance is a womderful thing.

I'd bet if you UN-learn DPC, you will be more relaxed and things will start to flow. I also believe think you'll do better work in your lay-off and when you come back, it will be with a roar. I'd bet every nickle on that.......
 03/14/2005 08:07:47 AM · #13
It's tough sometimes, I know just how you feel. And like was said already, it gets tougher when you let the challenges dictate your shooting. I find myself getting less productive and less creative when that's all I think about when I'm out.

I took a little bit of time off like you from submitting, and went out to shoot. For the current challenge, I kept it in the back of my mind and actually had a semi-decent idea and used it...but I definately didn't focus on getting that shot.

Good luck in whatever you do, and certainly I think you'll find your average score increase if you are a bit more selective and don't think solely of the challenge when you're out. Keep an open mind. If you see something that fits, shoot it and submit -- if you don't, no big deal.
 03/14/2005 08:13:21 AM · #14
I was having the same thought...

but I figure hey, why not keep entering. it's a fun hobby and I'm not really losing anything.

besides, I might just strike that magic formula without even knowing it. otherwise, it's an excuse to go out shooting.

with that said though, I think I'm scoring lower than I should be for some challenges.. but hey, what can I do except try again.

good luck to you. hope you find enlightenment.

03/14/2005 08:28:55 AM · #15
Originally posted by deapee:
It's tough sometimes, I know just how you feel. And like was said already, it gets tougher when you let the challenges dictate your shooting. I find myself getting less productive and less creative when that's all I think about when I'm out.

I took a little bit of time off like you from submitting, and went out to shoot. For the current challenge, I kept it in the back of my mind and actually had a semi-decent idea and used it...but I definately didn't focus on getting that shot.

Good luck in whatever you do, and certainly I think you'll find your average score increase if you are a bit more selective and don't think solely of the challenge when you're out. Keep an open mind. If you see something that fits, shoot it and submit -- if you don't, no big deal.


Ditto on that thought. I found myself submitting or working only on challenges. That in mind I took a few off and even shot for the Surrealism challenge but didn't enter. My two favorite photos happenend to be my highest rated, "Bridges II and Light on White." I am feeling the same and will only submit to challenges that fit what I want to photograph. However the Stock Photo challenge is a good one to submit what you want.
 03/14/2005 08:45:06 AM · #16
I think taking a break from time to time is a great idea. I will go long times without entering anything and then get the bug again and enter a number of challenges. For me the DPC challenges are a very small amount of what I photograph, but I find that the small amount I do photograph for challenges has an impact on my other photography. I find that if I take a photo from time to time that others are going to judge I begin to get a lot more careful about how I shoot the photo.

But I also find that much of what DPC seems to be about is not the kind of photography that I really enjoy. I like to go out in the world and try to capture what I see, trying to get a feel for the time and place. More and more the photos that do well on DPC are rather different then this, they are becoming works are art in their own right, but not in many cases not showing the world as it is but rather showing an other worldly look. Or there are photos that are of studio setups that are put together only for the challenge, I am guilty of doing this myself.

Don̢۪t get me wrong, I think many of the photos look fantastic, it is just that many of them do not look like the world I live on. Once and a while a photo that looks like it is from the real world will manage to ribbon and I am very glad that this can still happen.

So for someone like me, who uses photography to capture the world as I see it, much of DPC simply does not relate. But there are a few people on this site who inspire me greatly, jjbeguin manages to take photos that are of real places and people and yet he does it with such a good eye that he does very well on DPC. It is from people like him that I feel I have the most to learn and it in looking at his photos that I realize just how much I have yet to learn.

03/14/2005 01:39:47 PM · #17
This thread could have been mine, too. I think there are many of us who come out of the woodwork every so often and voice these sentiments. I am just shooting for myself lately and simply wnat to enjoy capturing the world as I see it. I love seeing the glossy ad art, too - it is stunning - but really not my thing either. Thanks for all the great posts and thank you Scott/SDW for being so open and giving at all times.
03/14/2005 02:06:39 PM · #18
Hi Scott,

Discouragement in the voting process can take it's toll, but don't let that take away your love of being behind the viewfinder and finding what pleases YOU in the final outcome.

I often find it discouraging at times trying to compete with some of the insane amount of talent as found on this site and in a way, am no longer trying. I have shifted over more to submitting something that means something to me and trying to grow in my own way, on my own path.

I found that a lot of the ribbon-winning shots I have on this site really don't move me like they did for the voters. If one is not happy with what they produce, the inspiration, vision and growth will die off, always trying to please others first and not yourself.

Case in point, a few of mine lately have not done as well I would have hoped, but yet was very pleased with them:


Find your niche and remember this is all virtual anyway.

Edit to add:
Though this was not from a challenge, shots like this grab me and am trying to see things we often don't see:



Message edited by author 2005-03-14 14:15:10.
 03/14/2005 03:49:44 PM · #19
At times i feel the same way about my entries here (3 or my last 4 scored under 5.0) - only 1 was so deserving IMHO. So what?

I have learned and am still learning here, and becoming a better photographer. My scores may not reflect that fact, but it is a fact to me.

I am about to try my hand at making some money with my skills - wedding photography and some other people type shots.

The 'market' that is DPC is a very critical one and that makes you a better photographer. It is hard to give comments to 'acceptable' photos that are helpful - assuming the voting here fits the standard bell curve, 80% of the pics are middling, as are 80% of the photographers and 80% of the voters - so how can an average scoring photog like me tell you how to improve your entries? Can you tell me how to improve mine?

Overall we have very technically talented people here. But that is not enough to score well here (it is more than enough in 80-90% of photography in general though). To do well here requires more than that, it requires a good idea and luck. Luck to have the time, weather, props and models to pull off the the idea.

Perhaps i need to build an small altar in a darkroom and sacrifice some film to change my luck!
 03/14/2005 04:28:41 PM · #20
Like anything that requiers one to judge another emotion will always loom. But without emotion we would not have the arts. What I am trying to do is mix me into the challenge, I have tried setting up shots in the hose with some success. This is not me I like being out and about or just around people. What I find the challenges do for me when I let it,is try new things and sometimes wow it even works with the things I like to do. So then I learn. What people say about your pic can be helpful if it is clear what they are trying to say. Guess what I am saying is find a way to bend things your way when you can. If your image makes you happy beware what others say be true to what you are looking for, if it is the art you are looking for, or the ultra perfect shot. Some painters are to good to real therefor lack feelings something I look for in pics
 03/14/2005 04:49:19 PM · #21
Thanks everyone for your support and advice. It helps knowing that others have gone through the same thing from time to time, even though I don̢۪t wish it on anyone. I guess you would call it a slump, a lull, or something but when I find myself overlooking pictures that move me while chasing challenge entries that̢۪s not where I want to be right now.
I do NOT intend to leave this site because it is a great place to share information and I have made some truly great friends here. But I will sit out of challenges for a while and like I said before, I don̢۪t know how long. Something may come along next week that moves me and fits a challenge. In that case I will submit a photograph. But I have made my mind up not to submit a picture just to be in a challenge.
I plan to keep on voting and commenting and posting in the forums and my profile. So I will be active here. I̢۪m to addicted to DPC to stay away [lol]. If anyone has any comments on my photographs that they see could of made them better, hit me with it I have thick skin and your comments will be taken as advice intended to help me.
Again I can̢۪t thank each and everyone enough for your support and advice. And Kylie, a special thanks goes out to you. Every time I have need advice or asked a question you have been there. There have been times that I was down and checked my email and there was a PM from you just to say hi and ask how I̢۪m doing. That may not sound like much but they seem to come at the right time and they lift me up. You have been there for me and I know you have been there others. So I want to say thanks to everyone and a special thanks to you.
Scott W.
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