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03/08/2005 09:05:26 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by NinjaMom:
I totally belief in it!
My mom swears that the day her mother died that she came to see her on last time before moving on to heaven.
And
Shortly after my Father in Law died my daughter who was 2 at the time was coloring. She looked directly over my husbands shoulder and said, "How does this one look Pepaw???" |
The night my brother died, who had been a parapelegic for the prior 18 years, he came to me in a dream all golden with a perfect body and told me not to worry about him because he was fine. I didn't find out he actually died that night until my sister called me late the next morning. |
this is what i am talking about. People DO come to you in your dreams. My husbands grandfather came to me. He had died when Rob was 7. I never knew anything about him. When i told Robs grandma about my dream and what he wore, how he spoke and mannerisms she said that it was exactly how he was. Everything down to him lifting his hat like old fashioned gentlemen did. The purpose of the dream.. he said welcome to the family my dear.
Our minds are so used to telling our conscious mind that when we hear or see something that we are being silly or we are tired. When we are sleeping it is a great opporunity to hear from the departed. We are more at ease, relaxed and we can always put it down to "just a dream". |
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03/08/2005 09:26:43 PM · #77 |
My mom has sworn for years that her father - who's been dead well over 30 years now - helps her with things that she doesn't know how to do, like fixing television sets, taking apart electronics, and so forth.
I don't see any way to disprove her, given that she really does do these things and has no education or any sort of background in the field. |
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03/08/2005 11:23:02 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
And someone was telling me not to make this a religious debate. This one's headed for the rant heap in a hurry. |
Not referring to you specifically, but I knew at the time I wrote it that it would do no good. I guess it's too hard not to interject personal religious beliefs in answering questions regarding hypothetical afterlives. |
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03/08/2005 11:28:57 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by milo655321:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
And someone was telling me not to make this a religious debate. This one's headed for the rant heap in a hurry. |
Not referring to you specifically, but I knew at the time I wrote it that it would do no good. I guess it's too hard not to interject personal religious beliefs in answering questions regarding hypothetical afterlives. |
The afterlife for most people is a religious subject. I am open to anyone's oppinions and ideas except when they involve intolerence for other people's beliefs.
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03/09/2005 07:44:51 PM · #80 |
I realize it was stated that this is not to be a ‘religious’ based thread, but I think it is impossible to state your beliefs about an afterlife without explaining the basis for your beliefs. These are mine:
The complexities of biology and science lead me to believe that we have a Creator. I don̢۪t believe that the requirements for life to exist (and to be sustained) could have happened accidentally. The more we learn, the less likely it becomes. There are a number of prominent atheists who have led their field for decades, who now believe in a Creator due to the gains that have been made in science.
Soâ€Â¦ that makes me a believer of a God, but which religion? I was a reactor operator in the nuclear power field for twelve years, and I’ve been a project manager in the semiconductor industry for nine years. My background is very technical, and I’ve always had a ‘seeing is believing’ philosophy. If you can prove it to me, I’ll buy it completely. I remember reading stories of miraculous events in the bible, or hearing about them in Sunday School when I was a kid. Some people say that they are symbolic stories for events, others dismiss them as ‘fiction’. There is an institute founded in Colorado Springs called the BASE Institute (//www.baseinstitute.org). BASE stands for Bible Archaeology Search and Exploration. Bob Cornuke is a guy who believes the events of the Bible are true, and he has traveled the world to search for physical evidence to support those stories. If you are skeptical of the events in the bible, check out this website and evaluate it. I’ve come to the conclusion that these events in the bible actually occurred, and are not symbolic or fictional stories. As I said, seeing is believing, and BASE Institute has provided enough evidence to convince me 100%. They are just getting started and I’m looking forward to their future endeavors.
Soâ€Â¦ that makes me a believer of the bible, for the miraculous stuff. I’ve also found that the content of the bible (non-miraculous stuff) makes sense, and has been true everytime I’ve applied it in my life. I’ve also realized that the bible is multi-layered, multi-faceted, or whatever you want to call it. It is amazing to me that the exact same passages can have multiple, applicable meanings, depending on your situation in life when you read it. A passage read when I am happy and all is well can have impactful, significant meaning to me. At another time in my life when times are troubled, going through hardship, that the exact same passage can have an entirely different, but applicable and significant meaning. It is unreal how this text, what I consider to truly be the Word of God, can have a very applicable message for me, no matter what my life may be like at the time. There is power in the bible, if you are willing to accept it.
I̢۪m also amazed with the thousands, if not more, relations of one part of the bible to another. In my experience, there are countless examples of ties of one part of the text to others, including multiple ties. I just don̢۪t believe that mankind is smart enough to produce a book that has this kind of depth, this kind of connective relationships throughout time. It takes a great deal of time to become familiar with the bible, and the more I know, the more I believe this book is not inspired by man alone.
So, since I̢۪ve come to the conclusion that the bible is real, true, and believable, I feel it is real, true, and believable in its entirety, 100%. Yes, that means that I believe Jesus lived, that He was the Son of God, that He died for our sins, and that He was resurrected and is alive today. I believe that He is coming back in the end of times, but we don̢۪t know when it will be. I also believe that there is a Heaven and a Hell, and that the only way to experience one or the other is to either believe and put faith in Jesus, or to not do so.
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03/09/2005 08:07:37 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by smellyfish1002:
So, since I̢۪ve come to the conclusion that the bible is real, true, and believable, I feel it is real, true, and believable in its entirety, 100%. |
So then, please explain:
Non-christian religions...are all wrong? If they do not believe in the bible (or all of it) tehn what are they? Which translation is 100% correct?
there is the catholic verison of the bible and a non-catholic one...many books are left out of the catholic one...and there are other gospels not included...so what does this mean? What truth or value do the othe versions or left out parts have?
Having been raised catholic, i never read the bible (gospels yeah, but that is about it). So what is heaven and hell? how does one get there? The OT and NT disagree on many aspects of proper living...which is correct?
The bible is an interesting collection of human history. Creator - yes. God...maybe not.
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03/09/2005 08:10:07 PM · #82 |
I'm a Christian, yes..so yes I believe in God and the Devil.
As far as apparitions, ghosts and other things, well....the Devil may appear as an angel of light. Biblically speaking, the "unexplained" is actually explained in scripture. |
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03/09/2005 08:51:36 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I'm a Christian, yes..so yes I believe in God and the Devil.
As far as apparitions, ghosts and other things, well....the Devil may appear as an angel of light. Biblically speaking, the "unexplained" is actually explained in scripture. |
And all this time I thought the scripture said we weren't supposed to understand.
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03/09/2005 08:58:23 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by NinjaMom:
I totally belief in it!
My mom swears that the day her mother died that she came to see her on last time before moving on to heaven.
And
Shortly after my Father in Law died my daughter who was 2 at the time was coloring. She looked directly over my husbands shoulder and said, "How does this one look Pepaw???" |
The night my brother died, who had been a parapelegic for the prior 18 years, he came to me in a dream all golden with a perfect body and told me not to worry about him because he was fine. I didn't find out he actually died that night until my sister called me late the next morning. |
That's neat. |
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03/10/2005 12:17:09 AM · #85 |
So you die, and for all we know, nothing but your body remains - for a little while yet...
If no one feeds on you, no worms or eagles, you decay in the air, if then it is air which makes your bed and passage. If we were to take pictures of you in a time-lapse sort of way, infra-red film would show the energy rise from the carcass, in the form of gas, which, according to science, is matter.
This matter would be scattered, wide and waste, only to settle one one day in some form or another, which itself would be subject to disintegration, change... And change we know as the one constant.
Perhaps, you and I will be so lucky and integrate into a tree, a grass. And after fifty-thousand years - a pebble, nice and round, shiny and lovely to hold. I want some moss on it.
Message edited by author 2005-03-10 00:17:36.
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03/10/2005 12:24:34 AM · #86 |
| I believe that the body captures the energy to live when we are born and when we die that energy gets released and dissipates out to the universe and gets reabsorbed into other processes in the universe that use energy. |
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03/10/2005 12:27:23 AM · #87 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
I believe that the body captures the energy to live when we are born and when we die that energy gets released and dissipates out to the universe and gets reabsorbed into other processes in the universe that use energy. |
Si. That's two of us, Olyuzi. ;-)
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03/10/2005 12:39:32 AM · #88 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
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I believe that the body captures the energy to live when we are born and when we die that energy gets released and dissipates out to the universe and gets reabsorbed into other processes in the universe that use energy.
Si. That's two of us, Olyuzi. ;-)
so you dont have a spirit?
what happens to it?
its a shame that all the knowledge built up over the years
was for nought. gosh what were all those trials for? |
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03/10/2005 12:40:37 AM · #89 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
I believe that the body captures the energy to live when we are born and when we die that energy gets released and dissipates out to the universe and gets reabsorbed into other processes in the universe that use energy. |
Si. That's two of us, Olyuzi. ;-) |
Wasn't there a song about that by Willie and Walyon and Chris and Johnny? I think it was called Highwayman.
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03/10/2005 12:48:29 AM · #90 |
Originally posted by goodman:
so you dont have a spirit?
what happens to it?
its a shame that all the knowledge built up over the years
was for nought. gosh what were all those trials for? |
What trials?
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03/10/2005 12:52:03 AM · #91 |
What is your definition of "spirit?" If what you mean is that it is our unique individuality, then yes, I do believe that it dies with the body's disintegration. Why do you think that my view of life and death would mean that "all the knowledge built up over the years was for naught"? Isn't it still available to continuing generations?
I sense a defensiveness in your questions and I'm not sure why, unless my views are a challenge to the religion you hold.
Originally posted by goodman:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
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I believe that the body captures the energy to live when we are born and when we die that energy gets released and dissipates out to the universe and gets reabsorbed into other processes in the universe that use energy.
Si. That's two of us, Olyuzi. ;-)
so you dont have a spirit?
what happens to it?
its a shame that all the knowledge built up over the years
was for nought. gosh what were all those trials for? |
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03/10/2005 12:57:03 AM · #92 |
I really don't care what happens after I die. There is no way I could make a certain judgement on the matter, so I'm not going to pretend I can. For now I'll live within my own terms of a good life, and not speculate on something for which there is no evidence in any direction. Faith is great if you need it, but it's possible to have faith without religion.
Does anyone else prefer agnosticism? Is it ok to admit you don't know and be fine with that? |
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03/10/2005 01:01:53 AM · #93 |
Originally posted by lousy_beatnik:
I really don't care what happens after I die. There is no way I could make a certain judgement on the matter, so I'm not going to pretend I can. For now I'll live within my own terms of a good life, and not speculate on something for which there is no evidence in any direction. Faith is great if you need it, but it's possible to have faith without religion.
Does anyone else prefer agnosticism? Is it ok to admit you don't know and be fine with that? |
I thought agnosticism was a religion. But I'm not sure about that.
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03/10/2005 01:06:21 AM · #94 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I'm a Christian, yes..so yes I believe in God and the Devil.
As far as apparitions, ghosts and other things, well....the Devil may appear as an angel of light. Biblically speaking, the "unexplained" is actually explained in scripture. |
And all this time I thought the scripture said we weren't supposed to understand. |
It would be great if you could tell me where in the Bible it deals with the "mystery" of the afterlife or ghosts. Some references to some actual scripture refering to what we "weren't supposed to understand". I am no Bible scholar, but I'd sure like to know what verses you are refering to...feel free to PM me so this thread doesn't get too much religion......laters
Mark |
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03/10/2005 01:09:26 AM · #95 |
It is certainly not a religion. It is merely a suspension of judgment for lack of evidence. Basically an I don't know, so I don't care attitude.
I thought agnosticism was a religion. But I'm not sure about that. [/quote] |
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03/10/2005 01:10:57 AM · #96 |
Originally posted by lousy_beatnik:
I really don't care what happens after I die. There is no way I could make a certain judgement on the matter, so I'm not going to pretend I can. For now I'll live within my own terms of a good life, and not speculate on something for which there is no evidence in any direction. Faith is great if you need it, but it's possible to have faith without religion.
Does anyone else prefer agnosticism? Is it ok to admit you don't know and be fine with that? |
Certainly, beatnik. I used to be so absolutely sure that this life was all there is, that if such a thing as a soul existed, it did so only for as long as the body was alive. Then I had several out-of-body experiences (which I thought were quite common; I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet). I wasn't high, and I wasn't dreaming or falling asleep. I was wide awake, sitting in a chair -- or I should say my body was sitting in the chair, but whatever it is that makes me uniquely me (my soul, spirit, whatever) was pressed up against the ceiling looking down at my body sitting in the chair! Several times this has happened to me over the course of my life, and it kinda makes you wonder if there isn't something that can survive after the body is gone. I still don't believe in God, though.
This discussion also reminds me of a beautiful Aztec poem:
Truly, do we live on earth?
Not forever on earth; only a little while here.
Although it be jade, it will be broken,
Although it be gold, it is crushed....
Not forever on earth; only a little while here. |
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03/10/2005 01:13:24 AM · #97 |
Originally posted by SirBiggsALot:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I'm a Christian, yes..so yes I believe in God and the Devil.
As far as apparitions, ghosts and other things, well....the Devil may appear as an angel of light. Biblically speaking, the "unexplained" is actually explained in scripture. |
And all this time I thought the scripture said we weren't supposed to understand. |
It would be great if you could tell me where in the Bible it deals with the "mystery" of the afterlife or ghosts. Some references to some actual scripture refering to what we "weren't supposed to understand". I am no Bible scholar, but I'd sure like to know what verses you are refering to...feel free to PM me so this thread doesn't get too much religion......laters
Mark |
Read the Book of Job.
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03/10/2005 01:15:26 AM · #98 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by lousy_beatnik:
I really don't care what happens after I die. There is no way I could make a certain judgement on the matter, so I'm not going to pretend I can. For now I'll live within my own terms of a good life, and not speculate on something for which there is no evidence in any direction. Faith is great if you need it, but it's possible to have faith without religion.
Does anyone else prefer agnosticism? Is it ok to admit you don't know and be fine with that? |
Certainly, beatnik. I used to be so absolutely sure that this life was all there is, that if such a thing as a soul existed, it did so only for as long as the body was alive. Then I had several out-of-body experiences (which I thought were quite common; I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet). I wasn't high, and I wasn't dreaming or falling asleep. I was wide awake, sitting in a chair -- or I should say my body was sitting in the chair, but whatever it is that makes me uniquely me (my soul, spirit, whatever) was pressed up against the ceiling looking down at my body sitting in the chair! Several times this has happened to me over the course of my life, and it kinda makes you wonder if there isn't something that can survive after the body is gone. I still don't believe in God, though.
This discussion also reminds me of a beautiful Aztec poem:
Truly, do we live on earth?
Not forever on earth; only a little while here.
Although it be jade, it will be broken,
Although it be gold, it is crushed....
Not forever on earth; only a little while here. |
See I think that's fantastic. It's silly to simply say something is impossible, like a strict atheist would. But you also don't have to go as far as religion just because you believe there's more to life than the physical. |
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03/10/2005 01:17:16 AM · #99 |
Originally posted by lousy_beatnik:
It is certainly not a religion. It is merely a suspension of judgment for lack of evidence. Basically an I don't know, so I don't care attitude.
I thought agnosticism was a religion. But I'm not sure about that. |
[/quote]
It was a joke!
Kinda like "I used to be agnostic, but now I'm not sure."
Message edited by author 2005-03-10 01:20:35.
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03/10/2005 03:06:03 AM · #100 |
I believe heaven and hell are right here in this earth. If we lead a good life then we can create a heaven in this earth, otherwise a hell. What happens after death is a mystery and I will see that when I die. If I die before you, if afterlife exists and if it is possible for my soul to contact you guys, then I will definitely try to contact you :-)
When people discover that the universe is so complicated, they believe only a 'Creator' can do such wonders. But then, who created the 'Creator'?
I believe in God. But I don't believe God is a supernatural force or a physical thing. God is a wonderful 'concept'. The mental strength and peace which this 'concept' gives is amazing.
Regarding bible, I don't know if stories in the bible are true or not, but the principles the bible teaches are enough for me to lead a good life and create a 'heaven' in earth. |
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