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03/01/2005 06:48:57 PM · #1 |
With the Ansel Adams challenge, I couldn't help but imagine a situation, such as one I was put into when in college...
As a pharmacy student, part of our learning was to weed through the many trials and studies conducted, and determine which ones were sound (good evaluations, didn't have room for bias, conducted well, etc) and poor (false logic or biased results). One of our many exercises was to "evaluate" a study, and then write a paper on the short-comings or praise it for it's competent design. We were all given the same stidy, and some (including myself) decided it was horrible, biased information, poor design, etc, etc....
In my paper, I "tore this study a new one", lol.... I thought I was infinitely wise, and knew better....
Well, it turns out, the study was a landmark study, regarded by all as sound, and true, no "clearer than a bell" that the data was accurate, and the results were fact. Ooops, don't I look dumb now, haha!
Now you're probably wondering why I'm sharing an experience I had in college in this forum... Well, here's what got me thinking about this event in my life...
What would happen, if someone took one of Ansel Adams works, and snuck it into the challenge? How would the ever critical (okay, sometimes not-so critical) DPC voters evaluate his work? Just as I was told to evaluate a "work" and was way too harsh on it, would DPC be the same way?? Would we not see the greatness of his work, because we were focusing on what we expected to see? Hmmmmmmm....
Keep in mind I would never actually do this, just a thought to ponder...
Deb |
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03/01/2005 06:53:48 PM · #2 |
Thus dpc, I'm afraid. the majority here aren't lifelong students of photography, budding critics of photography, or historians of photography. The shot that wins the Ansel adams challenge will be the one most like the voters' understanding of his photography, which may well have nothing to do with his actual work, looked at from certain perspectives.
I'd be very surprised however, given the level of knowledge possessed by some here, including a man who worked with Ansel for some years, if one could sneak any shot of his through the whole voting process without DQ.
e |
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03/01/2005 06:57:55 PM · #3 |
That is indeed food for thought.
One would hope that it would do really well, and if it did not win a ribbon it would at least be in the top, say, ten and with a decent score.
But imagine if it got absolutely trashed here. Would that then be a reflection on DPC, or an indication that tastes have changed over the years in general.
As for your uni experience ... as a biologist we did that sort of thing a lot, I used to love them. I trashed one once that was very blatently complete rubbish, and even trashed it more than the lecturer had spotted was wrong *laugh*
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03/01/2005 06:59:11 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by e301:
Thus dpc, I'm afraid. the majority here aren't lifelong students of photography, budding critics of photography, or historians of photography. The shot that wins the Ansel adams challenge will be the one most like the voters' understanding of his photography, which may well have nothing to do with his actual work, looked at from certain perspectives.
I'd be very surprised however, given the level of knowledge possessed by some here, including a man who worked with Ansel for some years, if one could sneak any shot of his through the whole voting process without DQ.
e |
Well, I wouldn;t expect to really "sneak" one in.... but, do the voters here "really" know what they are looking for, and would they know it if they got hit on the head with it? (as I did (and many others) in the exercise in college I alluded to)
Thats the real question...
Deb |
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03/01/2005 07:09:51 PM · #5 |
I have also wondered about the same thing myself.
Or even if just to post in the foums what is today refered to as a fine art print, like one looked at by the "art community" as an incredible peice of art that makes 99% of the population look at it and think, my four year old could take a better pic.
just to see how bad it gets trashed.
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03/01/2005 07:58:57 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by jfredin:
I have also wondered about the same thing myself.
Or even if just to post in the foums what is today refered to as a fine art print, like one looked at by the "art community" as an incredible peice of art that makes 99% of the population look at it and think, my four year old could take a better pic.
just to see how bad it gets trashed. |
I see stuff on the news all the time about these kids who are making the incredible "art"... Yes it is art...they are producing work that is beyonf their years, and likable... but will they develop into incredible artists, or is this just a phase... a 27 year old such as myself couldn't pass the same stuff off as "art"....
Deb |
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03/01/2005 09:01:49 PM · #7 |
| still wondering... (technical term for bump, haha) |
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03/01/2005 09:25:18 PM · #8 |
If the site council would be willing to let me create a dummy account and post an "unknown" (or little-known) original Adams as a benchmark image, I'd be happy to do it. As long as no censure was directed my way, that is. And as long as the community as a whole was able to avoid posting their "discovery" of the image (whether right or wrong) because this would skew voting in many ways.
But bear one thing in mind; we're all immersed in the culture of the "great" Ansel Adams (which of course he was) but he was human and he took a lot of relatively forgettable images that now have monetary value just because he made them, but would not make anybody's book of great images.
I have seen any number of landscape images in this site that I consider to be the equal, at least, of an "average Ansel". There are a few images by DPC photographers that are stunningly good, for that matter, simply world class. Anyone care to guess, speaking specifically of landscapes, which images I have in mind?
The thing is, his reputation is based on a huge BODY of work, many individual images of which have become absolutely iconic. But even for himself, he was a hard act to follow. All artists have this "problem"... Salvador Dali comes to mind as someone who repeated himself endlessly, Pablo Picasso in his later years was a caricature of his former brilliance...
Robt.
Message edited by author 2005-03-01 21:26:54.
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03/01/2005 09:47:11 PM · #9 |
Looking through some of his works, I would bet they'd do fairly poor here on DPC.
this one comes to mind...
//www.anseladams.com/Still-Life-San-Francisco-CA-circa-1932-by-ANSEL-ADAMS-P824C231.aspx
there's an $18,500 photo...and don't tell me that would even COME CLOSE to a top 10, let alone a ribbon.
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03/01/2005 09:49:48 PM · #10 |
Since this thread started off with a college story, I'll add my similar experience in a technical school. The class was micro-miniature electronic repair and everyone gathered around the instructor's workbench to watch him demonstrate a soldering technique. When he finished, he had everyone look through the microscope and see what a "perfect job" looked like. We were then told to go to our benches and perform the same task and bring the result to him for evaluation. As I walked away, I managed to grab his finished work product and I took it back to my bench, waited several minutes until a few students had already gone up and had their critiques, then I went up with the piece I swiped from the Instructor. He put it under the microscope and proceeded to tear it apart, saying the quality was lacking and pointing out several flaws. I think he gave me the equivalent of a "C" on the assignment.
Of course I walked back to my bench just cracking up inside, but I never let on what I did. I kept this in mind all my adult life as an example of why not to let any criticism from even so-called experts get to me. Take it all with a grain of salt. ;-) Oh, I did get a little satisfaction later when I smeared his microsope eyepieces with black grease. :-P
As far as slipping in an original Ansel, I'd be all for it, but logistics would be problematic and I agree that it is very likely that an Ansel original may not finish well in the the Ansel Adams challenge on this site. Consider the beginning of the speech by Mel Gibson as William Wallace in the movie Braveheart:
Wallace: Sons of Scotland! I am William Wallace!
Scotsman: William Wallace is seven feet tall!
Wallace: Yes, I've heard! Kills men by the hundreds!
And if he were here, he'd consume the English with balls
of fire from his eyes...and bolts of lightning from his arse!
:-)
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03/01/2005 10:22:27 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
If the site council would be willing to let me create a dummy account and post an "unknown" (or little-known) original Adams as a benchmark image, I'd be happy to do it.
Robt. |
That would be a very interesting exercise indeed.
However, if it was approved I would hope that there would be no mention of it, otherwise people might actively look out for it and that would pollute the result.
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03/01/2005 11:05:54 PM · #12 |
Yes, good point. At least now everyone's gonna wonder if it's in there, and be looking for it, and this may benefit many images with closer scrutiny LOL.
Robt.
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