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02/25/2005 10:30:29 PM · #101 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
It's amazing you write something like this after defending the president who, at the least, did not do the research about Iraqi WMDs. President Bush and his administration certainly were counting on all the media outlets you named below not to look any further than what they wanted the public to believe about Iraq.
Sorry for this temporary redirection...I now return you to your regularly scheduled global warming rant.
Originally posted by RonB:
1) I thought that you'd get a kick out of it. That's why I included it. I just wanted to prove once again, your penchant for dismissing anything and everything that doesn't come from a liberal web-site or publication. You obviously care not about the content, but the source. You therefore display to the world that you haven't the ability or desire to do any research beyond the immediate. That's what mainstream media like CNN, NYTimes, LATimes, WashingtonPost, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. count on. People like you who will believe what they write at face value, without checking to see if it even comes CLOSE to the facts.
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If it please Olyuzi, The President of the United States does not have the TIME to do research on his own - that's why he employs a cadre of advisors. And THEIR research can only extend to the data provided by the intelligence agencies.
Global Warming data, and other scientific data related to geology, anthropology, etc. are not "classified" in the same manner as national security intelligence data - that's why William COULD do more research in those areas, if he were so inclined.
And, by the way, I'm NOT defending the president against criticism in his handling of the build up for the war. I'm defending him against accusations that he lied. You may claim that he was reckless, or naive, or that he exercised poor judgement, or a lot of things, and I may or may NOT defend him on those counts, BUT you can be SURE that I will defend him if you say that he LIED. |
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02/25/2005 10:30:39 PM · #102 |
From bdobe prev post:
It's with this in mind that, for example, the modern Catholic Church interprets Genesis as a metaphor and does not advocate the literal interpretation of that book.
If you can believe the beginning of the book then how can you believe the middle and the end. If it is a lie from the start, then it is worthless.
Message edited by author 2005-02-25 22:38:01. |
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02/25/2005 10:34:33 PM · #103 |
Originally posted by bbower1956:
If you can believe the beginning of the book then how can you believe the middle and the end. If it is a lie from the start, then it is worthless. |
huh? |
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02/25/2005 10:47:05 PM · #104 |
Originally posted by bbower1956:
If you can believe the beginning of the book then how can you believe the middle and the end. If it is a lie from the start, then it is worthless. |
As I've stated, what's great about Liberals is that we can walk and chew gum at the same time -- for example, some of us have a strong religious core/faith, even though we simultaneously examine and subscribe to the natural sciences (i.e., believe in evolution). The fact is that people hold seemingly divergent beliefs within themselves all the time. Here's one such example: conservatives are "Pro-life" when it comes to fetuses, but -- not all, but many -- conservatives are avid advocates of the "Death Penalty" and solid supporters of the Iraq War. Now, many would note that these are seemingly contradictory beliefs and, yet, there you have it: two opposing beliefs systems often residing within one person.
Now, I know the arguments and, too, know why conservatives hold such positions; I merely present the example here to illustrate how people do hold seemingly opposite beliefs within themselves.
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02/25/2005 10:49:18 PM · #105 |
You cannot use computer models in science to come up with 'facts'. They are only using data you have fed them and that data can be flawed. The fact that computer models can't predict the weather next week should be enough to show that it is junk science. Check who funded the research.
You would never invest your money using a computer model but you would invest our nations future for what alot of scientists believe is a simply not true. You can list alot of scientists that do not believe in Global Warming. Sciene is not done by consensus. A bunch of scientist believing the same thing does not make it true.
Eugenics was believed by a majority of scientists to be a good thing before Hitler came along. No one talks about that anymore but that is a fact. Scientist were wrong then. Why should we jump on the bandwagon now and sacrifice our economy and our way of life?
We need double-blind research on this before taking drastic steps. Remember Ted Danson said in the 90's that we'd all be dead by now if we did not get rid of the automobile. I bet you're still here and still driving. |
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02/25/2005 10:51:54 PM · #106 |
Originally posted by bdobe:
Originally posted by bbower1956:
If you can believe the beginning of the book then how can you believe the middle and the end. If it is a lie from the start, then it is worthless. |
As I've stated, what's great about Liberals is that we can walk and chew gum at the same time -- for example, some of us have a strong religious core/faith, even though we simultaneously examine and subscribe to the natural sciences (i.e., believe in evolution). The fact is that people hold seemingly divergent beliefs within themselves all the time. Here's one such example: conservatives are "Pro-life" when it comes to fetuses, but -- not all, but many -- conservatives are avid advocates of the "Death Penalty" and solid supporters of the Iraq War. Now, many would note that these are seemingly contradictory beliefs and, yet, there you have it: two opposing beliefs systems often residing within one person.
Now, I know the arguments and, too, know why conservatives hold such positions; I merely present the example here to illustrate how people do hold seemingly opposite beliefs within themselves. |
I guess we are just so stupid that we value innocent life over the takers of life. We are not all enlightened like you. I pray to Gia every night after I tuck my 3 year-old fetus into bed to please learn me as good as them there liberals. |
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02/25/2005 10:54:26 PM · #107 |
Since this thread is still going on as if this was not posted, ill post it again. And I would like to add a special evidence to the book I posted The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
First, I would like to present and urge everyone who has any interest into Earth and Human reality and your childrens/grandchildrens future, to read this book: The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight which I consider one of the best books on our environmental situation and overal sliver of history we currently live in, thats in peril, and how we got here.
Secondly, I present a warning from over 1,700 scientists and most living Nobel Prize winners titled "Warning To Humanity" that was written in 1992.
World Scientists' Warning To Humanity
Some 1,700 of the world's leading scientists, including the majority of Nobel laureates in the sciences, issued this appeal in November 1992.
The Warning was written and spearheaded by UCS Chair Henry Kendall.
Human beings and the natural world are on a collision course. Human activities inflict harsh and often irreversible damage on the environment and on critical resources. If not checked, many of our current practices put at serious risk the future that we wish for human society and the plant and animal kingdoms, and may so alter the living world that it will be unable to sustain life in the manner that we know. Fundamental changes are urgent if we are to avoid the collision our present course will bring about.
The Environment
The environment is suffering critical stress:
The Atmosphere
Stratospheric ozone depletion threatens us with enhanced ultraviolet radiation at the earth's surface, which can be damaging or lethal to many life forms. Air pollution near ground level, and acid precipitation, are already causing widespread injury to humans, forests and crops.
Water Resources
Heedless exploitation of depletable ground water supplies endangers food production and other essential human systems. Heavy demands on the world's surface waters have resulted in serious shortages in some 80 countries, containing 40% of the world's population. Pollution of rivers, lakes and ground water further limits the supply.
Oceans
Destructive pressure on the oceans is severe, particularly in the coastal regions which produce most of the world's food fish. The total marine catch is now at or above the estimated maximum sustainable yield. Some fisheries have already shown signs of collapse. Rivers carrying heavy burdens of eroded soil into the seas also carry industrial, municipal, agricultural, and livestock waste -- some of it toxic.
Soil
Loss of soil productivity, which is causing extensive Land abandonment, is a widespread byproduct of current practices in agriculture and animal husbandry. Since 1945, 11% of the earth's vegetated surface has been degraded -- an area larger than India and China combined -- and per capita food production in many parts of the world is decreasing.
Forests
Tropical rain forests, as well as tropical and temperate dry forests, are being destroyed rapidly. At present rates, some critical forest types will be gone in a few years and most of the tropical rain forest will be gone before the end of the next century. With them will go large numbers of plant and animal species.
Living Species
The irreversible loss of species, which by 2100 may reach one third of all species now living, is especially serious. We are losing the potential they hold for providing medicinal and other benefits, and the contribution that genetic diversity of life forms gives to the robustness of the world's biological systems and to the astonishing beauty of the earth itself.
Much of this damage is irreversible on a scale of centuries or permanent. Other processes appear to pose additional threats. Increasing levels of gases in the atmosphere from human activities, including carbon dioxide released from fossil fuel burning and from deforestation, may alter climate on a global scale. Predictions of global warming are still uncertain -- with projected effects ranging from tolerable to very severe -- but the potential risks are very great.
Our massive tampering with the world's interdependent web of life -- coupled with the environmental damage inflicted by deforestation, species loss, and climate change -- could trigger widespread adverse effects, including unpredictable collapses of critical biological systems whose interactions and dynamics we only imperfectly understand.
Uncertainty over the extent of these effects cannot excuse complacency or delay in facing the threat.
Population
The earth is finite. Its ability to absorb wastes and destructive effluent is finite. Its ability to provide food and energy is finite. Its ability to provide for growing numbers of people is finite. And we are fast approaching many of the earth's limits. Current economic practices which damage the environment, in both developed and underdeveloped nations, cannot be continued without the risk that vital global systems will be damaged beyond repair.
Pressures resulting from unrestrained population growth put demands on the natural world that can overwhelm any efforts to achieve a sustainable future. If we are to halt the destruction of our environment, we must accept limits to that growth. A World Bank estimate indicates that world population will not stabilize at less than 12.4 billion, while the United Nations concludes that the eventual total could reach 14 billion, a near tripling of today's 5.4 billion. But, even at this moment, one person in five lives in absolute poverty without enough to eat, and one in ten suffers serious malnutrition.
No more than one or a few decades remain before the chance to avert the threats we now confront will be lost and the prospects for humanity immeasurably diminished.
Warning
*We the undersigned, senior members of the world's scientific community, hereby warn all humanity of what lies ahead. A great change in our stewardship of the earth and the life on it, is required, if vast human misery is to be avoided and our global home on this planet is not to be irretrievably mutilated.*
What We Must Do
Five inextricably linked areas must be addressed simultaneously:
We must bring environmentally damaging activities under control to restore and protect the integrity of the earth's systems we depend on.
We must, for example, move away from fossil fuels to more benign, inexhaustible energy sources to cut greenhouse gas emissions and the pollution of our air and water. Priority must be given to the development of energy sources matched to third world needs -- small scale and relatively easy to implement. We must halt deforestation, injury to and loss of agricultural land, and the loss of terrestrial and marine plant and animal species.
We must manage resources crucial to human welfare more effectively. We must give high priority to efficient use of energy, water, and other materials, including expansion of conservation and recycling.
We must stabilize population. This will be possible only if all nations recognize that it requires improved social and economic conditions, and the adoption of effective, voluntary family planning.
We must reduce and eventually eliminate poverty.
We must ensure sexual equality, and guarantee women control over their own reproductive decisions.
The developed nations are the largest polluters in the world today. They must greatly reduce their over-consumption, if we are to reduce pressures on resources and the global environment. The developed nations have the obligation to provide aid and support to developing nations, because only the developed nations have the financial resources and the technical skills for these tasks.
Acting on this recognition is not altruism, but enlightened self-interest: whether industrialized or not, we all have but one lifeboat.
No nation can escape from injury when global biological systems are damaged. No nation can escape from conflicts over increasingly scarce resources. In addition, environmental and economic instabilities will cause mass migrations with incalculable consequences for developed and undeveloped nations alike.
Developing nations must realize that environmental damage is one of the gravest threats they face, and that attempts to blunt it will be overwhelmed if their populations go unchecked. The greatest peril is to become trapped in spirals of environmental decline, poverty, and unrest, leading to social, economic and environmental collapse.
Success in this global endeavor will require a great reduction in violence and war. Resources now devoted to the preparation and conduct of war -- amounting to over $1 trillion annually -- will be badly needed in the new tasks and should be diverted to the new challenges.
A new ethic is required -- a new attitude towards discharging our responsibility for caring for ourselves and for the earth. We must recognize the earth's limited capacity to provide for us. We must recognize its fragility. We must no longer allow it to be ravaged. This ethic must motivate a great movement, convince reluctant leaders and reluctant governments and reluctant peoples themselves to effect the needed changes.
The scientists issuing this warning hope that our message will reach and affect people everywhere. We need the help of many.
We require the help of the world community of scientists -- natural, social, economic, political;
We require the help of the world's business and industrial leaders;
We require the help of the worlds religious leaders; and
We require the help of the world's peoples.
We call on all to join us in this task.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROMINENT INDIVIDUALS AMONG MORE THAN 1,500 SIGNATORIES
Anatole Abragam, Physicist; Fmr. Member, Pontifical Academy of Sciences; France
Carlos Aguirre President, Academy of Sciences, Bolivia
Walter Alvarez Geologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Viqar Uddin Ammad, Chemist, Pakistani & Third World Academies, Pakistan
Claude Allegre, Geophysicist, Crafoord Prize, France
Michael Alpers Epidemiologist, Inst. of Med. Research, Papua New Guinea
Anne Anastasi, Psychologist, National Medal of Science, USA
Philip Anderson, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Christian Anfinsen, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; USA
How Ghee Ang, Chemist, Third World Academy, Singapore
Werner Arber, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Switzerland
Mary Ellen Avery, Pediatrician, National Medal of Science, USA
Julius Axelrod, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Michael Atiyah, Mathematician; President, Royal Society; Great Britain
Howard Bachrach, Biochemist, National Medal of Science, USA
John Backus, Computer Scientist, National Medal of Science, USA
Achmad Baiquni, Physicist, Indonesian & Third World Academies, Indonesia
David Baltimore, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
H. A. Barker, Biochemist, National Medal of Science, USA
Francisco J. Barrantes, Biophysicist, Third World Academy, Argentina
David Bates, Physicist, Royal Irish Academy, Ireland
Alan Battersby, Chemist, Wolf Prize in Chemistry, Great Britain
Baruj Benacerraf, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Georg Bednorz, Nobel laureate, Physics; Switzerland
Germot Bergold, Inst. Venezolano de Investigaciones Cientificas, Venezuela
Sune Bergstrom, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Sweden
Daniel Bes, Physicist, Argentinean & Third World Academies, Argentina
Hans Bethe, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Arthur Birch Chemist, Australian Academy of Science, Australia
Michael Bishop, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Konrad Bloch, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Nicholaas Bloembergen, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
David Mervyn Blow, Wolf Prize in Chemistry, Great Britain
Baruch Blumberg, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Bert Bolin, Meteorologist, Tyler Prize, Sweden
Norman Borlaug, Agricultural Scientist, Nobel laureate, Peace; USA & Mexico
Frederick Bormann, Forest Ecologist; Past President, Ecological Soc. of Amer.; USA
Raoul Bott, Mathematician, National Medal of Science, USA
Ronald Breslow, Chemist, National Medal of Science
Ricardo Bressani, Inst. of Nutrition, Guatemalan & Third World Academies, Guatemala
Hermann Bruck, Astronomer, Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Great Britain
Gerardo Budowski, Natural Resources, Univ. Para La Paz, Costa Rica
E. Margaret Burbidge, Astronomer, National Medal of Science, USA
Robert Burris, Biochemist, Wolf Prize in Agriculture, USA
Glenn Burton, Geneticist, National Medal of Science, USA
Adolph Butenandt, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Fmr. President, Max Planck Inst.; Germany
Sergio Cabrera, Biologist, Univ. de Chile, Chile
Paulo C. Campos, Medical scientist, Philippine & Third World Academies, Philippines
Ennio Candotti, Physicist; President, Brazilian Soc. Adv. of Science; Brazil
Henri Cartan, Wolf Prize in Mathematics, France
Carlos Chagas, Biologist; Univ. de Rio de Janeiro; Fmr. President, Pontifical Academy of Sciences; Brazil
Sivaramakrishna Chandrasekhar, Center for Liquid Crystal Research, India
Georges Charpak, Nobel laureate, Physics; France
Joseph Chatt, Wolf Prize in Chemistry, Great Britain
Shiing-Shen Chern, Wolf Prize in Mathematics, China & USA
Christopher Chetsanga, Biochemist, Affican & Third World Academies, Zimbabwe
Morris Cohen, Engineering, National Medal of Science, USA
Stanley Cohen, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Stanley N. Cohen, Geneticist, Wolf Prize in Medicine, USA
Mildred Cohn, Biochemist, National Medal of Science, USA
E. J. Corey, Nobel laureate, Chemistry, USA
John Cornforth, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain
Hector Croxatto, Physiologist, Pontifical & Third World Academies, Chile
Paul Crutzen, Chemist, Tyler Prize, Germany
Partha Dasgupta, Economist, Royal Society, Great Britain
Jean Dausset, Nobel laureate, Medicine; France
Ogulande Robert Davidson, Univ. Res. & Dev. Serv., African Acad., Sierra Leone
Margaret Davis, Ecologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Luis D'Croz, Limnologist, Univ. de Panama, Panama
Gerard Debreu, Nobel laureate, Economics; USA
Pierre-Gilles de Gennes, Nobel laureate, Physics; France
Johann Deisenhofer, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Germany & USA
Frederica de Laguna, Anthropologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Paul-Yves Denis, Geographer, Academy of Sciences, Canada
Pierre Deligne, Mathematician, Crafoord Prize, France
Frank Dixon, Pathologist, Lasker Award, USA
Johanna Dobereiner, Biologist, First Sec., Brazilian Academy of Sci.; Pontifical & Third World Academies, Brazil
Joseph Doob, Mathematician, National Medal of Science, USA
Renato Dulbecco, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Heneri Dzinotyiweyi, Mathematician, African & Third World Academies, Zimbabwe
Manfred Eigen, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Germany
Samuel Eilenberg, Wolf Prize in Mathematics, USA
Mahdi Elmandjra, Economist; Vice President, African Academy of Sciences; Morocco
Paul Ehrlich, Biologist, Crafoord Prize, USA
Thomas Eisner, Biologist, Tyler Prize, USA
Mohammed T. El-Ashry, Environmental scientist, Third World Academy, Egypt & USA
Gertrude Elion, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Aina Elvius, Astronomer, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden
K. O. Emery, Oceanographer, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Paul Erdos, Wolf Prize in Mathematics, Hungary
Richard Ernst, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Switzerland
Vittorio Ersparmer, Pharmacologist, Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy
Sandra Faber, Astronomer, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Nina Federoff, Embryologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Herman Feshbach, Physicist, National Medal of Science, USA
Inga Fischer-Hjalmars, Biologist, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden
Michael Ellis Fisher, Physicist, Wolf Prize in Physics, Great Britain & USA
Val Fitch, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Daflinn Follesdal, President, Norwegian Academy of Science; Norway
William Fowler, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Otto Frankel, Geneticist, Australian Academy of Sciences, Australia
Herbert Friedman, Wolf Prize in Physics, USA
Jerome Friedman, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Konstantin V. Frolov Engineer; Vice President, Russian Academy of Sciences; Russia
Kenichi Fukui, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Japan
Madhav Gadgil, Ecologist, National Science Academy, India
Mary Gaillard, Physicist, National Academy of Sciences. USA
Carleton Gajdusek, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Robert Gallo, Research Scientist, Lasker Award, USA
Rodrigo Gamez ,Instituto Nacional de Biodiversidad, Costa Rica
Antonio Garcia-Bellido, Biologist, Univ. Auto. Madrid, Royal Society, Spain
Leopoldo Garcia-Collin, Physicist, Latin American & Third World Academies, Mexico
Percy Garnham, Royal Society & Pontifical Academy, Great Britain
Richard Garwin, Physicist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Murray Gell-Mann, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Georgii Georgiev, Biologist, Lenin Prize, Russia
Humam Bishara Ghassib, Physicist, Third World Academy, Jordan
Ricardo Giacconi, Astronomer, Wolf Prize in Physics, USA
Eleanor J. Gibson, Psychologist, National Medal of Science, USA
Marvin Goldberger, Physicist; Fmr. President, Calif. Inst. of Tech., USA
Maurice Goldhaber, Wolf Prize in Physics, USA
Donald Glaser, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Sheldon Glashow, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
James Gowans, Wolf Prize in Medicine, France
Roger Green, Anthropologist, Royal Society, New Zealand
Peter Greenwood, Ichthyologist, Royal Society, Great Britain
Edward Goldberg, Chemist, Tyler Prize, USA
Coluthur Gopolan, Nutrition Foundation of India, Indian & Third World Academies, India
Stephen Jay Gould, Paleontologist, Author, Harvard Univ., USA
Roger Guillemin, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Herbert Gutowsky, Wolf Prize in Chemistry, USA
Erwin Hahn, Wolf Prize in Physics, USA
Gonzalo Halffter, Ecologist, Inst. Pol. Nac. ,Mexico
Kerstin Hall, Endocrinologist, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden
Mohammed Ahmed Hamdan, Mathematician, Third World, Academy, Jordan
Adnan Hamoui, Mathematician, Third World, Academy, Kuwait
A. M. Harun-ar Rashid, Physicist; Sec., Bangladesh, Academy of Sci., Bangladesh
Mohammed H. A. Hassan, Physicist; Exec. Sec., Third World Academy of Sciences; Sudan & Italy
Ahmed Hassanli, Chemist, African Academy of Sciences, Tanzania & Kenya
Herbert Hauptman, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; USA
Stephen Hawking, Mathematician, Wolf Prize in Physics, Great Britain
Elizabeth Hay, Biologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Dudley Herschbach, Nobel laureate, Chemistry, USA
Gerhard Herzberg, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Canada
Antony Hewish, Nobel laureate, Physics; Great Britain
George Hitchings, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain
Roald Hoffman, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; USA
Robert Holley, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Nick Holonyak, Electrical Engineer, National Medal of Science, USA
Lars Hormander, Wolf Prize in Mathematics, Sweden
Dorothy Horstmann, Epidemiologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
John Houghton, Meteorologist; Chairman, Science Working Group, IPCC; Great Britain
Sarah Hrdy, Anthropologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Kenneth Hsu, Geologist, Third World Academy, China & Switzerland
Kun Huang, Physicist, Chinese Academy of Sciences, China
Hiroshi Inose, Electrical Engineer; Vice President, Engineering Academy; Japan
Turner T. Isoun, Pathologist, African Academy of Sciences,
Nigeria Francois Jacob, Nobel laureate, Medicine; France
Carl-Olof Jacobson Zoologist; Sec-Gen., Royal Academy of Sciences; Sweden
Dorothea Jameson, Psychologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Daniel Janzen, Biologist, Crafoord Prize, USA
Cecilia Jarlskog, Physicist, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden
Louise Johnson, Biophysicist, Royal Society, Great Britain
Harold Johnston, Chemist, Tyler Prize, USA
Victor A. Kabanov, Chemist, Lenin Prize in Science, Russia
Jerome Karle, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Robert Kates, Geographer, National Medal of Science, USA
Frederick I. B. Kayanja, Vice-Chnclr., Mbarara Univ., Third World Academy, Uganda
Joseph Keller, Mathematician, National Medal of Science, USA
Henry Kendall, Nobel laureate, Physics; Chairman, Union of Concerned Scientists; USA
John Kendrew, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain
Elisabeth Kessler, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden
Maung-U Khin, Pediatrician, Third World Academy, Myamnar & USA
Gurdev Khush, Agronomist, International Rice Institute, Indian Natl. Sci. Academy, India & Philippines
Susan Kieffer, Geologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Klaus von Klitzing, Nobel laureate, Physics; Germany
Aaron Klug, Nobel laureate, Chemistry, Great Britain
E. F. Knipling, Agricultural Researcher, National Medal of Science, USA
Walter Kohn, Physicist, National Medal of Science, USA
Janos Kornai, Economist, Hungarian Academy of Science, Hungary
Aderemi Kuku, Mathematician, African & Third World Acads., Nigeria
Ikuo Kushiro, Geologist, Japan Academy, Japan
Devendra Lal, Geophysicist, National Science Academy, India
Gerardo Lamas-Muller, Biologist, Museo de Historia Natural, Peru
Torvard Laurent, Physiological chemist; President, Royal Academy of Sciences; Sweden
Leon Lederman, Nobel laureate, Physics; Chr., Amer. Assn. Adv. Sci.; USA
Sang Soo Lee, Physicist, Korean & Third World Academies, Rep. of Korea
Yuan T. Lee, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; USA
Susan Leeman PharmacologistX National Academy of Sciences, USA
Jean Marie Lehn, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; France
Wassily Leontief, Nobel laureate, Economics; USA
Luna Leopold, Geologist, National Medal of Science, USA
Louis Leprince-Ringuet, Physicist, French & Pontifical Academies, France
Vladilen Letokhov, Physicist, Lenin Prize in Science, Russia
Rita Levi-Montalcini, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA & Italy
Li Chang-lin, Environmental Sciences, Fudan University, China
Shan Tao Liao, Mathematician, Chinese & Third World Academies, China
William Lipscomb, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Jane Lubchenco, Zoologist; President-Elect, Ecological Soc. of Amer.; USA
Christopher Magazda, Limnologist, African Academy of Sciences, Zimbabwe
Lydia Phindile Makhubu, Chemist, Third World & African Academies, Swaziland
Khursheed Ahmad Malik, Microbiologist, Pakistan & Third World Academies, Pakistan & Germany
Lynn Margulis, Biologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Paul Marks, Oncologist, National Medal of Science, USA
George Martine, Inst. for Study of Society, Population, & Nature; Brazil
Frederico Mayor, Biochemist; Dir. Gen., UNESCO, Spain & France Ernst Mayr, Zoologist, National Medal of Science, USA
Maclyn McCarty, Wolf Prize in Medicine, USA
James McConnell, Physicist, Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Ireland
Digby McLaren, Past President, Royal Society of Canada; Canada
James Meade, Nobel laureate, Economics; Great Britain
Jerrold Meinwald, Chemistry, Tyler Prize, USA
M. G. K Menon, Physicist; President, International Council of Scientific Unions; India
Gennady Mesiatz, Physicist; Vice President, Russian Academy of Sciences; Russia
Jan Michalski, Biologist, Polish Academy of Science, Poland
Hartmut Michel, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Germany
Brenda Milner, Neurologist, Academy of Sciences, Canada
Cesar Milstein, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Argentina & Great Britain
Franco Modigliani, Nobel laureate, Economics; USA
Andrei Monin, Oceanologist, State Prize, Russia
Marcos Moshinsky, Physicist, Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Mexico
Nevill Mott, Nobel laureate, Physics; Great Britain
Teruaki Mukaiyama, Chemist, Japan Academy, Japan
Walter Munk, Geophysicist, National Medal of Science, USA
Anne Murray, Ethnographer, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden
Joseph Murray, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Noreen Murray, Biologist, Royal Society, Great Britain
Lawrence Mysak, Meteorologist; Vice President, Academy of Science, Royal Society of Canada; Canada
Jayant Vishnu Narlikar, Astrophysicist, Indian & Third World Academies, India
Anwar Nasim, Biologist, Third World Academy, Saudi Arabia
Kim Nasmyth, Biologist, Royal Society, Great Britain & Austria
James Neel, Geneticist, National Medal of Science, USA
Louis Neel, Nobel laureate, Physics; France
Yuval Ne'eman, Physicist, Natl. Acad. of Sci. & Humanities, Israel
Oleg M. Nefedov, Chemist; Vice President, Russian Academy of Sciences; Russia
Erwin Neher, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Germany
Marshall Nirenberg, Biochemist; Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Yasutomi Nishizuka, Biochemist, Lasker Award, Japan
John S. Nkoma, Physicist, Third World Academy, Botswana
Paul Nchoji Nkvvi, Anthropologist, African Academy, Cameroon
Howard Odum, Ecologist, Crafoord Prize, USA
Bede Nwoye Okigbo, Agricultural Scientist; Dir., U.N. Unv. Pgm. Natrl. Res. in Afr.; Nigeria & Kenya
Ayub Khan Ommaya, Neurobiologist, Third World Academy, Pakistan & USA
Cyril Agodi Onwumechili, Physicist, Fmr. Pres., Nigerian Acad. of Sciences, Nigeria & Great Britain
Mary Jane Osborn, Microbiologist, National Academy of Scientists, USA
Yuri Ossipyan, Physicist; Vice President, Russian Academy of Sciences; Russia
Autzr Singh Paintal, Physiologist, Fmr. President, Indian National Science Academy, India
George Pake, Physicist, National Medal of Science, USA
George Palade, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Mary Lou Pardue, Biologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Linus Pauling, Nobel laureate, Chemistry & Pence, USA
Barbara Pearse, Molecular Biologist, Royal Society, Great Britain
Muhammed Abed Peerally, Biologist, Third World Academy, Mauritius
Manuel Peimbert, Astronomer, Univ. Nac. Aut. de Mexico, Mexico
Roger Penrose, Mathematician, Wolf Prize in Physics, Great Britain
John Philip, Agricultural Science, Australian Academy of Science, Australia
Lilian Pickford, Physiologist, Royal Society, Great Britain
John R. Pierce, Electrical Engineer, National Medal of Science, USA
John Polanyi, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Canada
George Porter, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain
Ilya Prigogine, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Belgium
Giampietro Puppi, Physicist, Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Italy
Edward Purcell, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Atta ur-Rahman, Chemist, Pakistani & Third World Academies, Pakistan
G. N. Ramachandran, Mathematician, Inst. of Science, India
Tiruppattur Ramakrishnan, Physicist, Indian & Third World Academies, India
Chintamani Rao, Inst. of Science, Indian and Pontifical Academies, India
Eduardo Rapoport, Ecologist, Third World Academy, Argentina
Marianne Rasmuson, Geneticist, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden
Peter Raven, Director, Missouri Botanical Garden; National Academy of Sciences, USA
Martin Rees, Astronomer, Royal Society & Pontifical Academy, Great Britain
Gerardo Reichel-Dolmatoff, Anthropologist, Columbian & Third World Academies, Columbia
Tadeus Reichstein, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Switzerland
Frederick Reines, Physicist, National Medal of Science, USA
Alexander Rich, Biologist, National & Pontifical Academies, USA
Burton Richter, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Ralph Riley, Wolf Prize in Agriculture, Great Britain
Claude Rimington, Inst. for Cancer Research, Norwegian Academy of Science, Norway
Gustavo Rivas Mijares, Engineer; Fmr. President, Academy of Sciences, Venezuela
Frederick Robbins, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Wendell Roelofs, Entomologist, National Medal of Science, USA
Betty Roots, Zoologist, Academy of Sciences, Canada
Miriam Rothschild, Biologist, Royal Society, Great Britain
Sherwood Rowland, Chemist; President, American Association for the Advancement of Science; USA
Janet Rowley, Physician, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Carlo Rubbia, Nobel laureate, Physics, Italy & Switzerland
Vera Rubin, Physicist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Yuri Rudenko, Energy Research Inst., State Prize laureate, Russia
Elizabeth Russell, Jackson Laboratory, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Albert Sabin, Virologist, National Medal of Science, USA
Carl Sagan, Astrophysicist & Author, USA
Roald Sagdeev, Physicist, Russian & Pontifical Academies, Russia & USA
Ruth Sager, Geneticist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Farrokh Saidi, Surgeon, Third World Academy, Iran
Abdus Salam, Nobel laureate, Physics; President, Third World Academy of Sciences, Pakistan & Italy
Frederick Sanger, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain
Jose Sarukhan, Biologist, Third World Academy, Mexico
Berta Scharrer,Neuroscientist, National Medal of Science, USA
Richard Schultes, Botanist, Tyler Prize, USA
Melvin Schwartz, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Julian Schwinger, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Glenn Seaborg, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
Michael Sela, Weizmann Inst., Pontifical Academy of Science, Israel
Arne Semb-Johansson, Entomologist, Norwegian Academy of Science, Norway
Salimuzzaman Siddiqui, Chemist, Pontifical & Third World Academies, Pakistan
Kai Siegbahn, Nobel laureate, Physics; Sweden
Thomas Silou, Biochemist, African Academy of Sciences, Congo
Herbert Simon, Nobel laureate, Economics; USA
Alexej Sitenko, Physicist, Ukrainian Academy of Sciences, Ukraine
Jens Skou, Biophysicist, Royal Academy of Sciences, Denmark
Charles Slack, Agricultural Science, Royal Society, New Zealand
George Snell, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Roger Sperry, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Alexander Spirin, Biologistn Lenin Prize, Russia
Earl Stadtman, Biochemist, National Medal of Science, USA
Thressa Stadtman, Biochemist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Ledyard Stebbins, Geneticist, National Medal of Science, USA
Jack Steinberger, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA & Switzerland
Janos Szentgothai, Fmr. President, Hungarian Academy of Sciences; Hungary
Tan Jia-zhen, Geneticist, Shanghai Univ., China
Andrezej Tarkowski, Embryologist, Polish [text missing]
Valentine Telegdi, Wolf Prize in Physics, Switzerland
Kirthi Tennakone, Physicist, Third World Academy, Sri Lanka
Walter Thirring, Physicist, Austrian & Pontifical Academies, Austria
Donnall Thomas, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Jan Tinbergen, Nobel laureate, Economics; Netherlands
Samuel C. C. Ting, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA
James Tobin, Nobel laureate, Economics; USA
Alexander Todd, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain
Susumu Tonegawa, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Japan & USA
Cheng Kui Tseng, Oceanologist, Chinese & Third World Academies, China
Hans Tuppy, Biochemist, Austrian & Pontifical Academies, Austria
James Van Allen, Physicist, Crafoord Prize, USA
Simon van der Meer, Nobel laureate, Physics; Netherlands & Switzerland
John Vane, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Great Britain
Harold Varmus, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Martha Vaughan, Biochemist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
George Wald, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Henrik Wallgren, Zoologist, Society of Science & Letters, Finland
E. T. S. Walton, Nobel laureate, Physics, Ireland
Prawase Wasi, Hematologist, Third World Academy, Thailand
Gerald Wasserburg, Geophysicist, Crafoord Prize, USA
James Watson, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Victor Weisskopf, Wolf Prize in Physics, USA
Thomas Weller, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Diter von Wettstein, Physiologist, Royal Academy of Sciences, Denmark
Fred Whipple, Astronomer, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Gilbert White, Geographer, Tyler Prize, USA
Torsten Wiesel, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA
Jerome Wiesner, Physicist, Fmr. President, Mass. Inst. of Tech., USA
Maurice Wilkins, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Great Britain
Geoffrey Wilkinson, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain
Richard Willems, Geneticist, Estonian Biocentre, Estonia
Edward O. Wilson, Biologist, Crafoord Prize, USA
Lawrence A. Wilson, Agricultural Science, Third World Academy, Trinidad
Evelyn Witkin, Biologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA
Yang Fujia, Physicist, Chinese & Third World Academies, China
Alexander L. Yanshin, Geologist, Karpinsky Gold Medal, Russia
Yongyuth Yuthavong, Biochemist; Director, National Sci. & Tech. Devl. Agency, Thailand
Zhao Zhong-xian, Physicist, Chinese & Third World Academies, China
Zhou Guang-zhao, Physicist; President, Chinese Academy of Sciences; China
Solly ZuckerInan, Zoologist, Royal Society, Great Britain
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Over 1,500 members of national, regional, and inter-national science academies have signed the Warning. Sixty-nine nations from all parts of Earth are represented, including each of the twelve most populous nations and the nineteen largest economic powers. The full list includes a majority of the Nobel laureates in the sciences. Awards and institutional affiliations are listed for the purpose of identification only. The Nobel Prize in medicine is for physiology or medicine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A WORLD SCIENTISTS' WARNING BRIEFING BOOK is available from the Union of Concerned Scientists. It provides the citations to support their WARNING.
Union of Concerned Scientists
96 Church Street
Cambridge, Mass 02238-9105, USA
VOX: 617-547-5552
FAX: 617-864-9405
//www.ucsusa.org/
ucs@igc.apc.org
Warning issued on November 18, 1992 |
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02/25/2005 10:59:00 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by bdobe:
Originally posted by RonB:
3) It seems that you STILL haven't the guts to answer my TOM LOVES MARY question - why is that????? |
I'll be perfectly blunt with you Ron. I believe the TOM LOVES MARY analogy is an extremely stupid one, and nothing more than a simpleminded rhetorical exercise, that's just a simple game of linear logic -- that's why I hadn't bothered to entertain it. |
Actually, it is NOT "simpleminded", not "rhetorical" and not "linear logic". It is a blunt question that will reveal whether you REALLY believe in science as opposed to intelligent design.
It is obvious that, by refusing to answer the question, you do not.
You CLAIM to believe in macro evolution and NOT to believe in intelligent design ( Creationism to some of us ), yet when confronted with just a small example, you cannot bring yourself to defend a scientific explanation as opposed to an explanation requiring intelligent design.
I think that you are afraid to answer because it's a catch-22 for those like you who CLAIM to believe in "science". If you pick science, then you show yourself to be a fool. But if you DON'T pick science, then you show yourself to be someone who the bible refers to as a "double minded" man. |
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02/25/2005 11:00:39 PM · #109 |
I'll give you this: You're funny... but I don't know why you carry such a chip on your shoulder about education or enlightenment... it's got nothing to do with either, it's about values. My values include tolerance, respect for religious diversity (that's why I don't advocate for the imposition of my faith over others), love of family and community, and the right of couples to determine and control their reproductive destiny. As I indicated, am familiar with the arguments that conservatives make to rationalize their ideological inconsistencies, so your response is not at all surprising.
.......................................
Originally posted by bbower1956:
Originally posted by bdobe:
[quote=bbower1956] If you can believe the beginning of the book then how can you believe the middle and the end. If it is a lie from the start, then it is worthless. |
As I've stated, what's great about Liberals is that we can walk and chew gum at the same time -- for example, some of us have a strong religious core/faith, even though we simultaneously examine and subscribe to the natural sciences (i.e., believe in evolution). The fact is that people hold seemingly divergent beliefs within themselves all the time. Here's one such example: conservatives are "Pro-life" when it comes to fetuses, but -- not all, but many -- conservatives are avid advocates of the "Death Penalty" and solid supporters of the Iraq War. Now, many would note that these are seemingly contradictory beliefs and, yet, there you have it: two opposing beliefs systems often residing within one person.
Now, I know the arguments and, too, know why conservatives hold such positions; I merely present the example here to illustrate how people do hold seemingly opposite beliefs within themselves. |
Originally posted by bbower1956:
I guess we are just so stupid that we value innocent life over the takers of life. We are not all enlightened like you. I pray to Gia every night after I tuck my 3 year-old fetus into bed to please learn me as good as them there liberals. |
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02/25/2005 11:03:14 PM · #110 |
What drastic steps are you talking about that would be taken that would sacrifice our economy or way of life?
You can't have a double blind study with something like global warming. It's not like giving out pills to two different groups of study participants and recording the results. There are many confounding factors and the atomosphere/biosphere can't be duplicated anywhere near what it's true make up is. The research study that the OP sited was probably the closest thing as it sounds like two different data sets were fed to computer models and the results recorded. The many computer model studies that suggest the human causation of global warming is good enough for me to warn us that we need to take some steps to improve our energy useage.
Originally posted by bbower1956:
You cannot use computer models in science to come up with 'facts'. They are only using data you have fed them and that data can be flawed. The fact that computer models can't predict the weather next week should be enough to show that it is junk science. Check who funded the research.
You would never invest your money using a computer model but you would invest our nations future for what alot of scientists believe is a simply not true. You can list alot of scientists that do not believe in Global Warming. Sciene is not done by consensus. A bunch of scientist believing the same thing does not make it true.
Eugenics was believed by a majority of scientists to be a good thing before Hitler came along. No one talks about that anymore but that is a fact. Scientist were wrong then. Why should we jump on the bandwagon now and sacrifice our economy and our way of life?
We need double-blind research on this before taking drastic steps. Remember Ted Danson said in the 90's that we'd all be dead by now if we did not get rid of the automobile. I bet you're still here and still driving. |
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02/25/2005 11:03:47 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by RonB:
If you pick science, then you show yourself to be a fool. But if you DON'T pick science, then you show yourself to be someone who the bible refers to as a "double minded" man. |
Precisely, this is why I described your analogy as simpleminded and nothing more than a rhetorical exercise using nothing more than linear logic. Hence, an utter waste of time.
Message edited by author 2005-02-25 23:17:28.
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02/25/2005 11:11:10 PM · #112 |
| Btw, the reason more scientists and professors are liberal is because they are smarter and more educated than normal men. |
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02/25/2005 11:11:41 PM · #113 |
| There is many a educated fool. |
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02/25/2005 11:16:59 PM · #114 |
Originally posted by bdobe:
Originally posted by RonB:
If you pick science, then you show yourself to be a fool. But if you DON'T pick science, then you show yourself to be someone who the bible refers to as a "double minded" man. |
Precisely, this is why I described your analogy as simpleminded and nothing more than a rhetorical argument using nothing more than liner logic. Hence, an utter waste of time. |
Thanks for the response. It answers the question just as well as if you had answered the question. |
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02/25/2005 11:17:11 PM · #115 |
Originally posted by RonB:
If it please Olyuzi, The President of the United States does not have the TIME to do research on his own - that's why he employs a cadre of advisors. |
Actually, WE employ them (not willingly). Your buddy Bush sure has time for vacation though. And naps. Definately doesn't have any time for press conferences though. Or researching matters on national interest.
Originally posted by RonB:
You CLAIM to believe in macro evolution and NOT to believe in intelligent design ( Creationism to some of us ), yet when confronted with just a small example, you cannot bring yourself to defend a scientific explanation as opposed to an explanation requiring intelligent design. |
Can you show me any proof of Creationism RonB? No? I didn't think so. Until you can, why don't you stop talking your absolute nonsense, demanding proof of everything, then claiming in the totally bizzare way that you do that any evidence that is provided (that you disagree with) is somehow a lie.
You always demand proof. Yet, you can't even provide your own proof about anything.
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02/25/2005 11:20:10 PM · #116 |
Don't you want your 3 year-old to have fresh air to breath and have a healthy body for the duration of his/her life? Global warming is not the only result of our use of fossil fuels.
Originally posted by bbower1956:
I pray to Gia every night after I tuck my 3 year-old fetus into bed to please learn me as good as them there liberals. |
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02/25/2005 11:25:37 PM · #117 |
It is amazing how this debate undulates from fact to fancy. I always feel that when you say something and post it you are creating a public record of all that you are. It tells a lot of your psychological make up and how you view the external.
I even saw the line, why wait for the proof. Is this not like saying may as well believe and accept a hypothesis as fact to satisfy an insecurity of inner uncertainty. Do you know how many incorrect theories have been laid down by otherwise intelligent people?
Is is not strange that the Liberals latch on to all these loony beliefs and then expect everybody else to eat the cake.
Let me give some facts which are taking place. The belief of the left is that the natural cause of death is extinct. My father in law quit smoking at age 32. Died at age 77. The doctor asked us did he smoke. We said yes, quit 45 years ago. Well, they added his name all the same to the smoking stats and that is what is taking place. Numbers are being created to support this structure. He even scared the wife saying that second smoke is certain to take its toll on you. She is alive in good health and 91.
They would love to print the headline, "Man lights up cigarette in bus and 10 people die." Yes, it all depends on your constitution. Some people are simply all messed up health wise because of upbringing, diet or simply a hereditary disposition.
I was raised in a smoke filled room. Mom and dad chain smokers. I started smoking at age 14. Well, according to the stats I should have died long ago. Lungs are perfect, blood pressure perfect and all vital signs at peak. I am going on 67 and shovelled all the snow on my two lot property and I do it very swiftly and even do my neighbors when I get there first. I would advise anyone against smoking merely because, in my case it creates a strong irritant to my sinus. That is, you smoke at your own risk and you must determine if you can withstand it. If you have breathing problems forget it, it will just aggravate it more. If your kidney and liver are not robust then you won't be able to cleanse yourself. But not everybody dies from smoking and less from the supposed second hand smoke.
So you see, the left gets it into its head and takes up a cause and is bent on bending everybody elses will. But I do know that no longer people die of natural causes. The left has preempted the natural cause for whatever cause they have in mind. They simply hate big business and love to bring down dynasties and corrupt the capitalist system.
Now we are told that display of God or belief in God or anything related to God is a no-no. They seek to remove "God" from the very constitution that has proven the most successful government in the face of the earth. Look at the concerted effort.
Now, we hear about earthwarming and without evidence that we are the cause, the left runs rampant in public television and in our schools teaching this misinformation and all the other hogwash that has replaced the very basics and is turning out not the most brightest into the world and allowing other nations to graduate more engineers, etc, etc.
All this being done for political reasons so the liberal can justify its existence by being a better person with a bigger heart and a bigger brain. I don't think so. That's merely heaping praise on an empty ego.
The very last post begs no reply. It is rooted in fear mongering and is now bringing in the children to support a half baked argument. I wonder what would function in life without the burning of energy. I know, we should all stop exhaling, it will bring about the end with so much carbon dioxide filling the air.
Message edited by author 2005-02-25 23:57:50. |
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02/25/2005 11:35:37 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by ericlimon:
Originally posted by RonB:
If it please Olyuzi, The President of the United States does not have the TIME to do research on his own - that's why he employs a cadre of advisors. |
Actually, WE employ them (not willingly). Your buddy Bush sure has time for vacation though. And naps. Definately doesn't have any time for press conferences though. Or researching matters on national interest.
Originally posted by RonB:
You CLAIM to believe in macro evolution and NOT to believe in intelligent design ( Creationism to some of us ), yet when confronted with just a small example, you cannot bring yourself to defend a scientific explanation as opposed to an explanation requiring intelligent design. |
Can you show me any proof of Creationism RonB? No? I didn't think so. Until you can, why don't you stop talking your absolute nonsense, demanding proof of everything, then claiming in the totally bizzare way that you do that any evidence that is provided (that you disagree with) is somehow a lie.
You always demand proof. Yet, you can't even provide your own proof about anything. |
Can you show me proof of macro evolution Eric. No? I didn't think so. Until you can, why don't you stop talking your absolute nonsense, offering up opinions and conjecture as though it were fact?
You are correct. I can't PROVE creationsim. I can only offer simple examples that demonstrate to reasonably inteligent people that macro evolution is a fraud. |
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02/25/2005 11:40:29 PM · #119 |
I quit smoking to help the enviroment....not really, but it sounds good. Sunday will be one week.
My G/F still smokes, and she can smoke in the house...no prob, but man I am going to be a fat ass if I keep eating like I am ...
/sorta hijacked, I am sorry... :) |
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02/25/2005 11:44:21 PM · #120 |
lol...exercise!
I wish you the best of luck in quitting. It's the best thing you can do for your health.
Originally posted by Riggs:
I quit smoking to help the enviroment....not really, but it sounds good. Sunday will be one week.
My G/F still smokes, and she can smoke in the house...no prob, but man I am going to be a fat ass if I keep eating like I am ...
/sorta hijacked, I am sorry... :) |
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02/25/2005 11:57:13 PM · #121 |
Originally posted by RonB:
I can only offer simple examples that demonstrate to reasonably inteligent people that macro evolution is a fraud. |
That's funny RonB, you sound just like the same people you insinuate are liars. Maybe you've only been lying to your self huh? Any reasonably intellingent person would obviously see that maybe it's actually you that might be the fraud. If you can't talk it, you shouldn't walk it.
Message edited by author 2005-02-25 23:58:19.
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02/26/2005 12:54:35 AM · #122 |
So now we reach the conclusion that Liberals are the enlightened one and that conservatives are lost in their ignorance. Only one problem I see. Liberals can not sell their junk science and their pseudo intelligence to the majority of Americans. They certainly are more popular with second and third world countries. Here in America the Liberals get clobbered in the domain of ideas.
There was even a time when the liberal hid. Now with nuts like Howard Dean, Al Gore, and many other prominent ones, it becaomes fashionable to proudly wear the label. Even Churchill is ranting, he feels assured his time has come. I think this is good because it makes the thinking person run even further from electing such luminaries.
Again I point out that the liberal battles are being won in the courts by the activist leftish judges. The majority of Americans opposed most of this lunacy. With all due repect but there is such an air of superiority and supposed understanding and concern which exhibit an edge of the supercilious. Why any human being would assume this demeanor at the cost of sounding so pompous escapes me, but then I am not a liberal and must contend with my limitations.
No dear friend. If I were to preach the agenda of the Liberal I would have to look deep in my hearts for these convictions. I am sorry but that would lead to a very uncomfortable life.
I do not mean this as an insult, I am merely saying that as humans we accumulate knowledge and nonsense side by side. It is up to each of us to chose whether to file the nonsense in our mental hard drive in the same folder as the knowledge and then have retrival problems.
There is a warning not to discuss politics and religion. However, I join these forums because I am a seeker of truth and as such I entertain a philosophical outlook. I can take it as well I give it. I simply notice that liberals do not discuss ideas as they are soldiers or true believers and frankly, I envy how anyone can assume to know so much with so much passion. I have read most of the ancients' writings and I was always surprised to find how a wrong premise mounted a literal change in a society only for it to crumble and give rise to the next nonsesical fever. Yet here we are practicing the same lame logic and advancing big scope planetary changes and we still can not cure the common cold or foretell the weather a few days inadvance. But yes, the computer models get fed raw info which foretells how we better change our ways. Are these not the same people that carry these signs, repent, the end is near? lol. Do not hate me. I speak my mind.
Message edited by author 2005-02-26 21:11:05. |
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02/26/2005 01:20:59 AM · #123 |
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02/26/2005 01:39:17 AM · #124 |
| I have one question. If the population explosion is such a big problem why then are we trying to live forever? Why do we worry about all the little things that might kill us when it is us that we think are the problem? Isn’t it more sane to just let us do ourselves in rather than worry incessantly about our welfare and in so doing just making this population explosion all the worse? I think there is no sense to the belief that there are too many humans on earth and then to be going on about smoking and seatbelts in cars or driving drunk. Maybe if the earth warms up us humans will die off and then we will have solved our population problem. Maybe you lefty’s are looking at the problem from the wrong angle. Just let the dummies die and then you can have a perfect world to live in with no power no heat in homes no cars no beef no cigarettes no(OH ya you guys like to drink so you can have your booze) Hot dogs. Just line up with your 10 speeds and go about your merry ways. |
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02/26/2005 10:15:09 AM · #125 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Btw, the reason more scientists and professors are liberal is because they are smarter and more educated than normal men. |
More educated I'll agree with that. However, more educated does NOT automatically equate to 'smarter'. Many of these people are extremely knowledgable in their one field of expertise while being quite ignorant in other unrelated but important areas, such as common sense, human relations, etc. In your description of 'liberal' scientists and professors you left out intolerant, narrow-minded, self-righteous, patronizing, and bigoted. Btw, I loved the way you differentiated your liberal 'intellectuals' from 'normal men'. A freudian slip, perhaps? |
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