b/w help please - DPChallenge Forums

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

02/24/2005 01:26:06 AM · #1

Could anyone/everyone help me with this b/w that I'm going to enter it in a local compo.
I have a lot of trouble with b/w and I don't know why. Anyway this image looks a little flat in tonal range to me what should I do more contrast?, forget it as too soft for b/w or any other suggestion would be really appreciated.

Regards
Tim

Message edited by author 2005-02-24 01:26:56.

faidoi

Pentax K10D

02/24/2005 01:30:53 AM · #2

Are you using any of the Adobe programs? Levels, curves, will help to bring out the contrast. How did you convert it to b/w? Monitor calbrated?

Message edited by author 2005-02-24 01:35:37.

02/24/2005 01:40:33 AM · #3

Originally posted by faidoi:

Are you using any of the Adobe programs? Levels, curves, will help to bring out the contrast. How did you convert it to b/w? Monitor calbrated?

PS CS, adjusted in raw contrast increase saturation increase and exposure increase but was for a colour shot.
Just decreased saturation as a layer adjustment.
And the monitor is calibrated.

02/24/2005 02:06:00 AM · #4

Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by faidoi:
Are you using any of the Adobe programs? Levels, curves, will help to bring out the contrast. How did you convert it to b/w? Monitor calbrated?

PS CS, adjusted in raw contrast increase saturation increase and exposure increase but was for a colour shot.
Just decreased saturation as a layer adjustment.
And the monitor is calibrated.

Anytime you remove color you have to reajust contrast. If you were going to do anything in raw it should have been to decrease the saturation instead of increase it if you wanted to convert this to a B/W.

And the word for the tone of your print is not flat. It is most often refered to as mud or muddy.

digitalknight

02/24/2005 03:18:29 AM · #5

Here's a quick levels and dodge and burn (in non-DPC legal fashion - with layers) Is this what you are thinking?

Bearing in mind it's very quick...

I had to do this in Elements, I'd prefer some curves too, but that machine is shut down, and I'm lazy right now. ;-)

02/24/2005 03:21:41 AM · #6

Here's a quick shot at it with levels:

This would be better done from the original image, btw, and B/W conversion better handled through channels than through desaturation...

I see Doug got in with a very similar result. Took me all of 15 seconds. In my case, no dodging or burning whatsoever, just an adjustment of the tonal range with levels.

(robt)

Message edited by author 2005-02-24 03:22:56.

02/24/2005 03:25:21 AM · #7

Originally posted by digitalknight:

Here's a quick levels and dodge and burn (in non-DPC legal fashion - with layers) Is this what you are thinking?

Bearing in mind it's very quick...

I had to do this in Elements, I'd prefer some curves too, but that machine is shut down, and I'm lazy right now. ;-)

I know your not asking me, but it is better. It still won't win him any ribbons in his competion. What he really needs to do is start over in raw with this. That is where he took a wrong turn or two.

02/24/2005 03:29:45 AM · #8

That's correct, nsbca. Go back to the original image and start from scratch with B/W in mind, is by far the best option. But these two similar tweakings show there's definite potential, even working from a muddy, lo-res iteration of the image.

Robt.

Message edited by author 2005-02-24 03:30:08.

digitalknight

02/24/2005 03:39:20 AM · #9

Originally posted by bear_music:

So you're opening the RAW image for the first time, what adjustments are you going to make to create B&W? Bear in mind I haven't yet worked in RAW, so if it's obvious, I apologize. But I enjoy trying to wrap my head around the process even though I haven't been there yet.

02/24/2005 03:55:42 AM · #10

I'm not the one to ask about RAW, because I rarely use it. I shoot in JPG Fine or TIFF mode myself. But when I want to make an image into a B/W, I go back and clone off a copy of the original file and go into channels. Usually, the best B/W conversion to work with will be from just one of the channels, very often the red channel for landscape-type work. Just click 'em on and off and see which one is closest to what you're after when it stands alone. Then try adding in fractions of the other channels to see if they are useful.

Once you've got this close to what you want, you can treat it like any other image using curves and all the rest to fine tune it.

Robt.

02/24/2005 04:08:12 AM · #11

Thanks for all the input, will try from raw and see what I come up with.
The reworks have shown me that it does have potential.

Message edited by author 2005-02-24 04:08:28.

02/24/2005 04:10:36 AM · #12

I do mine a little different. I rarely drain all the color from my B/Ws. I start in raw with the final image in mind turning up the exposure and contrast a little more then looks right. I then open the image in Photoshop and ajust the Hue/Saturation channels one at a time. Then ajust the Brightness/Contrast again and then the Color Balance.

There are probably a thousand ways to get to the same place. You just have to play with it until you find the way that works best for you.

Two ways I would never recomend though are to go into Mode and hit Grayscale or to go to Ajustments and hit Desaturate. The results are usually less then spectacular

02/24/2005 04:39:52 AM · #13

This is my second attempt with the adjustments done in raw being increase exposure and contrast with a little decrease in of saturation.
Then done curves layer and played with channels for the b/w.

Is this getting closer?

02/24/2005 04:49:56 AM · #14

Much closer. Could still use more luminosity. Keep at it...

Robt.

digitalknight

02/24/2005 02:15:28 PM · #15

I just happened upon another article discussing this. The 6th one is one I hadn't heard about, the "double Hue-Sat Layer" approach.

I've messed with it a little, very interesting, seems to give some nice delicate adjustment options.

//retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=92

GoldBerry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

02/24/2005 02:47:43 PM · #16

I was wondering why the image is so flat to start with. I'm thinking maybe he's using the wrong camera settings??Yes? No?