A comment about comments... - DPChallenge Forums

02/21/2005 10:58:11 PM · #1

DPC newbies sometimes suggest that comments should be REQUIRED by voters giving low scores or complain that they are getting a low score with no comments. The logic being that voter comments are the only way they can learn.

Not true...

Here are "comment independent" alternative ways to learn...

1-Look at your image and ask yourself if it has any of these elements common in good photography:
a-Viewer(Not personal) interest with no distracting elements
b-Technical quality
c-Applies basic photographic ingredients such as composition, framing, perspective, supportive background, depth of field and/or the rule of thirds.

2-Practice voting. When you can predict high finishers based on your own voting record you will understand why one of yours gets a low score.

3-Vote on all the images in the challenge. Then, at the end, immediately bring up your own image and apply your own voting criteria to it. You will be surprised how enlightening that is.

Comments often contain limited or conflicting information. Logically, only the very best or worst images attract many comments. A boring image in the middle attracts few.

Self-evaluation is a better way to learn.

Any comments?

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

02/21/2005 11:09:19 PM · #2

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Comment on as many images as you can, especially those which you are scoring lower. Look at a photo for a full 30 seconds or minute before you start to write or vote -- you can do a surprising amount of perceiving and thinking in that little time. If you don't want to put your comments in writing, try to explain to someone else in the house why you are giving a photo a particular score.

Go back and look at some of your older photos, and write a comment about them, as if you came across them in a challenge.

Go to the menu Photos > Browse link and you'll see a page of the most recently commented-on photos ... read what others are saying.

lentil

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM

02/21/2005 11:13:35 PM · #3

when i vote i often look for a while, if i dont get it i come back to it and have another look. I dont comment very often because i really dont think i know what i am talking about. When i have more experience i will definately do more commenting. I usually only comment if i really like the picture.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

02/21/2005 11:27:42 PM · #4

Originally posted by lentil:

when i vote i often look for a while, if i dont get it i come back to it and have another look.

This is very good!

Originally posted by lentil:

I dont comment very often because i really dont think i know what i am talking about.

Name anyone more qualified to say how a photo makes you feel, what you like and what you don't. Every comment is an opinion, and those are all equally valid. Making a comment in no way implies that you know how to "do better" yourself -- it only need be a record of your thoughts as you view the picture.

There's no better way to learn about what "works" than to try and explain it to someone else.

Message edited by author 2005-02-21 23:28:32.

saiphfire

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

02/21/2005 11:28:06 PM · #5

I'm a proponent of being able to vote whenever you want without having to comment. I have lots of reasons, here are a few:
1. I don't care how helpful the comments are, I don't want to read hundreds of them for every challenge.
2. Similarly, I don't want to force people with nothing to say to say something just because they don't like my picture.
3. If there's a really obvious flaw in my picture that everyone is clearly going to remark upon (as there was, incidentally, in the first challenge I submitted to because I didn't realize until after taking the picture that cloning wasn't allowed in a basic challenge) I don't really need to read the same comment zillions of times. I'll get a few comments on it from people who feel like commenting and then move on.
4. Sometimes I score a picture low because it's obvious they had a pretty picture that they decided to put into a contest even though it didn't apply. They know it didn't. They don't need me to tell them again. There might be nothing to comment on from a technical perspective.
5. Requiring comments for low scores would lead to grade inflation because people might either not vote on the ones they don't like so they don't have to comment or vote just high enough so they don't have to comment.

That's my two (actually more like 7) cents.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

02/21/2005 11:30:55 PM · #6

No one is suggesting requiring comments for anyone, that's a different thread.

This is two people suggesting that one way to learn more about photos is to comment on a lot of them. This is an educational site, so I think recommending effective learning techniques is a good idea.

lentil

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM

02/22/2005 12:30:13 AM · #7

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by lentil:
when i vote i often look for a while, if i dont get it i come back to it and have another look.

This is very good!
Originally posted by lentil:
I dont comment very often because i really dont think i know what i am talking about.

Name anyone more qualified to say how a photo makes you feel, what you like and what you don't. Every comment is an opinion, and those are all equally valid. Making a comment in no way implies that you know how to "do better" yourself -- it only need be a record of your thoughts as you view the picture.

There's no better way to learn about what "works" than to try and explain it to someone else.

i understand what you are saying i just thought that maybe people wouldnt want my opinion because i am so new to this. I will endevour to comment on more because i know myself that i love getting feedback. Just forgive me if upset anyone. :o) Thanks Lisa

justinbrook

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

02/22/2005 07:06:00 AM · #8

I have been recieving some low votes for my bridges entry ( as expected ). I was talked into entering the image and I didn't think it was that great but on the bright side I have recieved about 15 comments ( all negative ) but they are all very useful. Telling me different problems with the image which I never thought about. I look forward to the comments almost as much as the scoring.
Thank you all for telling honest truths and not just an opinion like. (this sucks) or something unhelpful.

Some of my comments so far
"Seems a bit distracting. Too many thing on the picutre! 5"

"Interesting bridge but i think a better perspective of it would have been much better!"

"sorry...but this just doesn't work for me. there's way too much going on. I'd probably have gone to the ground and shot upwards at the bridge...it is a cool design. And the sky looks pretty nice.2 "

I now realize the image is too cluttered, a better perspective may have worked etc.

Thanks

Brooky

saiphfire

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

02/22/2005 10:01:51 AM · #9

Originally posted by stdavidson:

I don't think that it's completely unreasonable to read the "not true" in the first post as responding to "...suggest that comments should be REQUIRED..." I didn't know there was another thread on this issue-I'm brand new to the site and haven't read very many threads.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

02/22/2005 10:20:06 AM · #10

There are many extensive threads which discuss the pros/cons of various methods of requiring comments. So far, the downside has been adjudged to outweigh the upside of any such scheme.

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

02/22/2005 12:59:15 PM · #11

Originally posted by justinbrook:

...on the bright side I have recieved about 15 comments ( all negative ) but they are all very useful. Telling me different problems with the image which I never thought about. ...

Agreed, no doubt comments can be a useful tool for analyzing individual photographs, but the vast majority of the 1100+ comments I've received have had little impact along that line.

The most important function comments have served for me is making connections with other photographers that have since become friends.

By far, the most important comment you will ever receive is your average score from voters.

When you get a low average score and wonder why then compare your image to the top finishers in the challenge. Ask yourself what qualities top finishing images have that yours lacks. If you want higher scores then conciously incorporate some of those qualities into your next images and your photography will improve.

Also, ask yourself if what you think is "good" is in step with the group or not. Ask the "good" photographers how they do it. You will find them very accessible. This will do you more good then someone's often uninformed opinion about technique or content.

suemack

Canon EOS-20D

02/22/2005 01:21:25 PM · #12

Originally posted by stdavidson:

...

3-Vote on all the images in the challenge. Then, at the end, immediately bring up your own image and apply your own voting criteria to it. You will be surprised how enlightening that is.

...

This, for me, was the most enlightening. All of a sudden my baby, my creation, my 'masterpiece' became just another image and I could sit back and look at it more dispassionately. It was, and is, a real eyeopener.

sue

sue

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II