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 01/27/2005 11:16:24 AM · #1
Here's a little background information before I get to my question...
Last year, a friend of my wife asked if I would shoot some nudes as a gift for her boyfriend, I did and she loved them. They are now getting married in the fall and have asked us to shoot the wedding...great, no problem....Now here's where it gets tricky...he's a pro baseball player and has requested all rights to the pictures for obvious reasons so my question is...what do you charge for that? I mean I'd like to keep a couple of the good ones for my portfolio and not to mention it's a great ego boost to say you shot a professional athlete's wedding, but if I have to turn over all rights, then I have nothing to show. Any ideas on how to approach this and what to charge would be greatly appreciated.
 01/27/2005 11:28:32 AM · #2
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask to use a couple images in a portfolio (perhaps not an online portfolio though). My guess would be that his concerns are less about the artistic side of the photography, but more that he's a public figure. He doesn't want someone making money off of who he is and he doesn't want his wedding to end up in some trashy gossip magazine. I don't see anything wrong with keeping some images in a portfolio that will always remain in your possession and not be seen by anyone except a potential client. Work out an agreement such that you can keep the images for personal use under the condition that they never be sold or change hands.
 01/27/2005 11:33:42 AM · #3
I would think that he'd be even more concerned about nude pictures of his wife floating around. ;-)
 01/27/2005 11:36:22 AM · #4
Originally posted by scalvert:
I would think that he'd be even more concerned about nude pictures of his wife floating around. ;-)


I was just going to say that! LOL!

I'm sure he won't mind if you ask to keep a few for your portfolio. Just make sure you get a written contract spelling out all the conditions.
 01/27/2005 11:37:04 AM · #5
But the real question is: Do you get to keep the nudes in your portfolio? ;-)

Seriously, I agree with kearock. Settle on a few that you would like to keep and use, and let him know how they'll be used. Make him comfortable in knowing that all measures will be taken to protect these images from being misused.
 01/27/2005 11:40:47 AM · #6
Thanks for the input. Really I have no problem putting a contract together that states that with the exception of a few that I can display in my portfolio none of them will ever beused, but more importantly, what would I charge them for the rights?
As far as the nudes go, we had already worked out a deal that insures they never get into the wrong hands.
 01/27/2005 11:41:44 AM · #7
Originally posted by daveit:
As far as the nudes go, we had already worked out a deal that insures they never get into the wrong hands.


What about my RIGHT hand? ;-)
 01/27/2005 11:43:10 AM · #8
you can just hold them up, i don't even need to touch them ;)

Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by daveit:
As far as the nudes go, we had already worked out a deal that insures they never get into the wrong hands.


What about my RIGHT hand? ;-)
01/27/2005 11:48:01 AM · #9
Originally posted by daveit:
... what would I charge them for the rights?
...


A lot more than if YOU retained the rights. Is he a Major League BB player? Then he'll rpobably MAKE money with the photos by selling them to newspapers etc...
 01/27/2005 11:52:02 AM · #10
I'm partially intriqued and partially grossed out. lol

Can you tell us which player it is??? hmmmm???

I'd say double the package price if he wants to retain full copyright. And yea, get it in writing that you can put a pic or two in your portfolio and online.
 01/27/2005 12:01:33 PM · #11
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I'm partially intriqued and partially grossed out. lol

Can you tell us which player it is??? hmmmm???

I'd say double the package price if he wants to retain full copyright. And yea, get it in writing that you can put a pic or two in your portfolio and online.


Grossed out? Do nudes gross you out?

You might want to hit them up for anywhere between 1.5 to 2.5 times your going rate.

How often are you contacted, long after a wedding event, to produce replacement/additional images? If you could calculate the likelihood of that happening and the sums of money you normally make off of such post-event prints, add that into the package price, instead of 1.5 to 2.5 times your going rate.

One thing you might want to consider is working into the contract that at least the initial orders for prints for guests and family members would go through you. Of course, that would be a their word against yours kind of thing.

Beyond that, you could have the images held in an escrow account for a period of time through a law firm or similar institution. Then, if something tragic happened to you, the images would be immediately handed off to the client. In the meantime, you would have the opportunity to produce some prints and sell those to guest of the wedding and family members of the bride and groom.

The important thing is to decide how much you need to protect your business investment, without jeopardizing this opportunity. If you are fair and nothing leads into any kind of confrontation, everything should be good as gold.

Good luck with whatever option you take.
 01/27/2005 12:02:50 PM · #12
Originally posted by Nelzie:
Grossed out? Do nudes gross you out?


no, but the thought of the guys here j*rking off to them does. Hey, you asked. lol

Message edited by author 2005-01-27 12:06:04.
 01/27/2005 12:08:34 PM · #13
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Originally posted by Nelzie:
Grossed out? Do nudes gross you out?


no, but the thought of the guys here j*rking off to them does. Hey, you asked. lol


Yeah... That might be a bit gross... Of course, I hadn't thought about that until you brought that up...

...and with the images that are now burned into my mind, because some people have been known to show off pictures of themselves here, I must drive off the nearest cliff... (Which is going to take a while, since there aren't any cliffs in Detroit... heheh)
 01/27/2005 12:13:51 PM · #14
Did you read all the posts? I don't know how it never came to your mind..especially with the "just hold them up, I don't even need to touch them" comment. LOL

I've been huddled in the fetal position for a good 20 minutes now.
 01/27/2005 12:16:13 PM · #15
Originally posted by GoldBerry:


I've been huddled in the fetal position for a good 20 minutes now.


You must lead a very sheltered life.
 01/27/2005 12:18:05 PM · #16
yeah ... that's not at all what i was implying and you've succeeded in taking what i thought was a harmless joke to a place i never would gone. i'm sorry i said anything at all.

Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Did you read all the posts? I don't know how it never came to your mind..especially with the "just hold them up, I don't even need to touch them" comment. LOL

I've been huddled in the fetal position for a good 20 minutes now.
01/27/2005 12:24:02 PM · #17
contracts, contracts, contracts.... I wouldn't give him full rights.. What I would do is stipulate within the contract that you are only granted use of the shots for your own advertisement (i.e. portfolio, web site etc) under the condition that it not be used in publications etc. Give him grounds to sue your arse off and he wont' mind i'm sure.
 01/27/2005 12:29:16 PM · #18
Originally posted by hopper:
yeah ... that's not at all what i was implying and you've succeeded in taking what i thought was a harmless joke to a place i never would gone. i'm sorry i said anything at all.


yea it was harmless and still hilarious! I took it to mean something you didn't intend, that happens online. Sorry! It was still funny while it lasted.
 01/27/2005 12:46:12 PM · #19
Originally posted by hopper:
yeah ... that's not at all what i was implying and you've succeeded in taking what i thought was a harmless joke to a place i never would gone. i'm sorry i said anything at all.


Ditto. Go wash your mind off with soap. ;-)

Message edited by author 2005-01-27 12:51:59.
 01/27/2005 01:02:56 PM · #20
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Did you read all the posts? I don't know how it never came to your mind..especially with the "just hold them up, I don't even need to touch them" comment. LOL

I've been huddled in the fetal position for a good 20 minutes now.


Yeah, I read 'em all... I just selectively ignored the images that immediately came to mind, it was working real good... until I read a stronger description of those images...

(It's a good thing I had to be back to the office before I could find some cliff to drive off of...)
 01/27/2005 07:12:09 PM · #21
Dave

I see no problem with his request? If he is a pro athlete that someone might know real well you could be the one to benefit the most from all the images.

Why can't you simply set down and come to a written agreement that would allow him to select photos that you could use in your portfolio? You would probably have to provide all the details of how you plan on using them, i.e. website, advertising and etc.

In the end I hope you have access to backup equipment if you plan on shooting the wedding! Trying to photograph a high profile wedding with one Canon EOS 10D is not good planning. He may come after you with a bat if it goes wrong :)
 01/27/2005 07:35:36 PM · #22
Originally posted by RHoldenSr:
He may come after you with a bat if it goes wrong :)


that could be said for just about any part of the wedding, not just the camera. :-)

The problems I have incurred, have never been about the gear, some problems would shock the pants off even the most astute photog. :-)
 01/27/2005 07:51:02 PM · #23
You're shooting this digitally, right? So there's no "negatives" you can give him. You're going to have to do post-processing, right? So there's no way on God's green earth he can be sure you you don't have your own copies of everything.

As a human being, his interest is in the finished product; he wants prints of his pictures. You're not going to let control of that out of your hands, right? If you do you're a fool; someone else can make a botch-up of printing them and you'll get blamed.

Not only that. but even if he DOES take possession of all the digital files, SOMEONE has to print them eventually and that someone becomes a security risk all over again.

Nowhere in your description of the process does it say he wants "physical possession" of the materials; he just wants to control all rights to the materials. In other words, you can't DO anything with the images but sell them to him. Period. He'll make you sign a piece of paper and he'll sue you if the images find their way into National Enquirer.

Now, in your average wedding you NEVER sell copies of ANYTHING to anyone but family members, right? So why should this be any different? In other words, what he's asking you to sign away is something that, if he were a factory worker, would have no value at all. Therefore, I don't see why this should be an issue; why should the man have to pay you MORE just because he's famous, when if he weren't famous this wouldn't be an issue at all?

As to posting on your website, I would guess ABSOLUTELY NOT. Why? Because if the images get on the web, they can be hijacked. period. His goal is to keep them private, and you have to respect that. He might permit you to use PRINTS in your "hard" portfolio, but I'd be surprised if he allowed you to post any of his images to the web, and I don't blame him.

Charge it like a normal wedding (a high-priced one, to be sure...) and follow through by maintaining absolute confidentiality, and you just might find yourself getting the chance to shoot celebrity weddings aplenty as word-of-mouth goes out that "this dude can be trusted, fellows!"

That's my opinion, anyway.

Robt.

Message edited by author 2005-01-27 19:52:51.
 01/27/2005 07:51:34 PM · #24
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
The problems I have incurred, have never been about the gear, some problems would shock the pants off even the most astute photog. :-)


Yeah, tell me about it. I think, in my short career of shooting weddings, most of the problems I come up against originate from the wedding party itself. For some reason when you say pictures start at noon, they don't show up till 12:30 and are not even ready yet. And somehow it is the photographers fault :( But you are at their wedding, so you always have to wear a smile, even if it hurts.

Message edited by author 2005-01-27 19:52:38.
 01/27/2005 09:59:39 PM · #25
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I think Robert pretty much sums it up that is should be treated as any other wedding....only charge top dollar. I should note however that he has offered to pay all travel and accomodation expenses for my wife and I to attend so maybe I'll give him a small discount. lol
Now to address a couple of early coments
Lori.. Sorry but I'd rather not say who it is. I believe that's part of the issue here but with their permission I may post a pic after the event

Robin... I plan on bringing extra EVERYTHING!! as much as I can carry...not the time to find out your short on something or equiptment malfunction!

Robert.. thank you for your perspective..I think that's the way I was heading but the reinforcement is much appreciated.
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