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 01/21/2005 08:31:46 AM · #26
Originally posted by nsbca7:
I know what those cookies are and I know what they are there for. Your telling me that there is no such thing as a bad cookie? They are all harmles? Couldn't hurt a fly or cause a pop-up?

Absolutely correct - there is NO way that a cookie could cause a pop-up or (I admit to guessing a bit here) hurt a fly.

If you're getting popups when you're not browsing and not online then you have some other sort of malware on your machine. Honestly, cookies CANNOT do that at all (which is why I think AdAware flagging them up so enthusiastically is unhelpful).

You can argue that tracking cookies are bad from the point of view of allowing the advertisers some (pretty limited) demographical - if impersonal - information but there is no way they can do more.
 01/21/2005 08:38:36 AM · #27
Watching this thread is like watching a train crash. Please go away from your PC and take a deep breath. Then do some research on what you're talking about so you don't look uninformed. Then thank all the nice people who are trying to help you.
 01/21/2005 08:39:01 AM · #28
I'd suggest writing your congressman/senator to take action to make laws against this crap. There is a trojan horse out there that will install itself and a ton of other crap on your computer without your permission and then ask you for money to remove it all. Or those search bars that install them selves and then act as if they are doing you a service... It's getting to the point where they are as dangerous as a virus. I've heard of people that are not too computer savy actually buying a new computer because they get so infected they run too slow.
P.S. Do a system search on your computer for "btgrab" and "zserv" if you have any files with either of those titles, you are infected. I'm sure there are a million more, but those were the two that spanked me last week. You'll need to go into safe mode to remove them.
01/21/2005 08:57:03 AM · #29
Originally posted by louddog:
I'd suggest writing your congressman/senator to take action to make laws against this crap. There is a trojan horse out there that will install itself and a ton of other crap on your computer without your permission and then ask you for money to remove it all.

It's actually very rare that this kind of stuff can install itself "without your permission"; that's why you get crap like popups faking Microsoft dialogs and suchlike. 99% of the time these things get installed when you open an attachment in your mail, or click on some misleading box.

I'm pretty sure I'm right in thinking that the kind of thing you're talking about is already illegal (in the UK I'd guess it's covered by the Computer Misuse Act; I'm 90% sure the US has similar laws) but the trouble is it's relatively unenforceable. User education is far more valuable than unenforceable laws, anyway.
 01/21/2005 09:31:42 AM · #30
Originally posted by nsbca7:

I know what those cookies are and I know what they are there for. Your telling me that there is no such thing as a bad cookie? They are all harmles? Couldn't hurt a fly or cause a pop-up?


I haven't read all of the posts in this thread...apologies in advance if I duplicate.

Cookies are relatively harmless (to your PC), mainly because of the limitations they operate with, size being the main one. They do store data, most of the time useful data that helps with customizing your web surfing/shopping. They have nothing to do with pop-ups (usually javascript). A GREAT site for info on cookies is //www.cookiecentral.com. Check the FAQ link, sections 2.6 and 4.1 are interesting.

One of the greater culprits for bad script making it to your PC is ActiveX. If you are running IE try this. Go to your menu, Select Tools, Internet Options. Select the Security tab. Select the Custom Level button and then set all ActiveX controls and plug-ins settings (there are 5) to 'Prompt'. Then try surfing the web and see what happens!

I run Spy Sweeper in the background (yes I paid extra for it, and don't really recommend it - it's a system hog). The point I want to make is that if I set ActiveX security to run/allow, Spy Sweeper gets VERY busy blocking attempts at installs, etc... Set ActiveX back to prompt, then deny when prompted on sites I don't know/trust, and Spy Sweeper stays quiet. Hmmmm.

If you turn off your Messenging service (not browser related) you can also avoid many of those 'System' pop-ups.

I'm with you Martin (nsbca7) on the frustrations, it really bites that we have to take so many preventitive measures ourselves. Unfortunately there will always be psychos out there wanting to show off their scripting/coding skills in some negative way.

I'm about ready to switch to Firefox myself, unfortunately, nearly all of my clients use IE so I'm forced to stay with it at least for work anyways.

Keep smiling!
 01/21/2005 10:21:10 AM · #31
Originally posted by ganders:
Originally posted by louddog:
I'd suggest writing your congressman/senator to take action to make laws against this crap. There is a trojan horse out there that will install itself and a ton of other crap on your computer without your permission and then ask you for money to remove it all.

It's actually very rare that this kind of stuff can install itself "without your permission"; that's why you get crap like popups faking Microsoft dialogs and suchlike. 99% of the time these things get installed when you open an attachment in your mail, or click on some misleading box.

I'm pretty sure I'm right in thinking that the kind of thing you're talking about is already illegal (in the UK I'd guess it's covered by the Computer Misuse Act; I'm 90% sure the US has similar laws) but the trouble is it's relatively unenforceable. User education is far more valuable than unenforceable laws, anyway.


It's installed itself on my computers 3 times now in the last few months. I assure I did not click on any pop ups, open email attachments, or agree to have anything installed. I saw it install itself and tried to stop it as it was doing it each time. The last 2 times it started installing when I clicked to a web site through a google search! McCaffe even popped up the last time and said a trojan horse has just installed itself on your computer, but McCaffe was too late to prevent anything. I assure you that they are installing things on people's computers without permission.
01/21/2005 10:23:37 AM · #32
Also, Microsoft recently put out an XP update that helps remove and prevent these programs. If you haven't got it yet it might be a good idea to do so.
 01/21/2005 11:04:03 AM · #33
Originally posted by louddog:
... I assure you that they are installing things on people's computers without permission.


Hi. I'm not sure what you mean by "they". If you mean cookies - highly unlikely. You don't have to click on a pop-up for malicious code to be installed. If you allow pop-ups that means you probably have javascript enabled - although that's not a likely culprit either. Depends on how "soft" your browser security settings are set.

Something to consider regarding your multiple install of the same Trojan. You may not have wiped it out the first time. They are pretty sneaky at hiding on your PC.

There are numerous ways for a PC to get abused unintentionally. Did you know bad code can be embedded in an image? There's a scary thought! And no, I don't know specifically hows it done - never tried it myself. ;-)
 01/21/2005 12:15:32 PM · #34
A tool that needs some experience, but is very effective in removing all kind of crap from your pc and browser is this:

Hijackthis

Despite the strange name it is not going to Hijack your computer but it is a tool to remove the hijackers. The link will lead you to a spychecker.com page.

My brother had multiple infections within one week after I installed his broadband + Norton AV 2005 + spyware preventers + adaware. Used this tool and it worked like a charm.
Same thing happened with my niece, but on that one I did it by hand (including the registry). The time saved was half a day...


01/21/2005 12:55:28 PM · #35
Hi since we are on this subject I have a question related....
I use Zone alarm and my dad has helped me tremendously to go through and check preferences to programs to allow or not to allow most of them are set not to and then the rest are ask first. I get abetterinternet
and Realnetworks dynamics always popping up asking to access the internet are these like file cookies with programs that are installed on my pc and will it hurt to just check the dont allow access to internet on any of my programs?

I run mozzilla firefox too..Its the best no pop ups and fast to browse and easy to clean cache

Message edited by author 2005-01-21 13:02:14.
 01/21/2005 01:01:14 PM · #36
I get pop-ups by the hundreds every time I turn on my PC and I have Adware. I've had it in for repairs twice now, it runs for a week then dies again. It's mostly my internet that freezes and then freezes the whole thing. Could the pop-ups be the problem?

It's driving me nuts.
 01/21/2005 01:10:27 PM · #37
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I get pop-ups by the hundreds every time I turn on my PC and I have Adware. I've had it in for repairs twice now, it runs for a week then dies again. It's mostly my internet that freezes and then freezes the whole thing. Could the pop-ups be the problem?

It's driving me nuts.


The popups are probably the problem. They are making you running out of memory and stall the system. The Hijackthis program I mentioned could be a solution against this (to get rid of them). But first you need to find a way that the popups don't popup as soon as windows is loaded.


01/21/2005 01:12:41 PM · #38
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by louddog:
... I assure you that they are installing things on people's computers without permission.


Hi. I'm not sure what you mean by "they". If you mean cookies - highly unlikely. You don't have to click on a pop-up for malicious code to be installed. If you allow pop-ups that means you probably have javascript enabled - although that's not a likely culprit either. Depends on how "soft" your browser security settings are set.

Something to consider regarding your multiple install of the same Trojan. You may not have wiped it out the first time. They are pretty sneaky at hiding on your PC.


They being the %#($&@ that create this crap... The trojan horse installed a few search programs and shopping programs on my computer. It made it so several words, when they appear in a browser window, automatically become links to other web pages (example; anywhere the word internet appeared, it was changed to a link to AOL). Popups were coming up everywhere, even when I wasn't on the internet, and it added several 100 web sites to my favorites. i had to go into add remove programs to delete a bunch of it, I deleted several folders from the C;/programfiles folder, I had to manually go through and delete several registry items... The kicker, if you didn't delete it all, the next tome you re-booted it reinstalled everything!
I'm pretty sure I got it all off each time as the problems went away until I seen it get installed again.
HijackThis was a big help (but you need to know what you are doing to use it) and the forums at Majorgeeks.com had info on the removal of the rest. Search their forums for whatever you have and they have instructions on how to remove it. Now I'm an expert at removing spyware.

Message edited by author 2005-01-21 13:15:06.
 01/21/2005 01:15:11 PM · #39
Another great solution is to disable shockwave and to set your IE Internet Safety settings in such a way that all ActiveX is disallowed or needs your permission (Ask). Many sites will stop working, but a lot less crap gets on your pc. I wish everything went back to good old straight html again without all the Java, Shockwave, ActiveX and stuff like that.


01/21/2005 01:17:33 PM · #40
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I get pop-ups by the hundreds every time I turn on my PC and I have Adware. I've had it in for repairs twice now, it runs for a week then dies again. It's mostly my internet that freezes and then freezes the whole thing. Could the pop-ups be the problem?

It's driving me nuts.


Gaaaaahhhh!!!

Ahem... Sorry about that. I just needed to get that out of my system. You may have a few issues relating to your PC Problems.

As for the pop-ups at turning on your PC, it seems very likely that you have some bad programs installed on your PC from some bastard advertising companies. As for it slowing down, it is possible that you are running an insecure system with no protection from the greater Internet.

If you have some kind of broadband internet connection, I would suggest that you pick-up and install a Broadband router. Those typically come with fairly decent Firewalls that can protect your PCs from the bastards of the Internet. Once you have that in place and working, you will need to either clean out all the detritus from your PC on your own, or take it in 'one last time' and have it 'fixed'.

When you get it cleaned, or even before you get it cleaned, go to Mozilla and download the Firefox 1.0 web browser and use that browser exclusively for everything you do on the Internet, except for Windows Update. (It sounds like you are running Windows.)

Part of my job is IT and Network Security. Some people may say that my suggestion here is a bit overboard and at the same time, there are others that will say my suggestion is pretty weak from a security standpoint.

Hopefully helpful.
 01/21/2005 01:25:01 PM · #41
My advice to nsbca7 and GoldBarry is to reinstall your PC from scratch. Sorry for the bad news guys but it sounds like you've both got some malware installed and despite their assurances Adaware, Spybot and HijackThis DON'T catch everything.

Cookies are essentially benign. They are very small text files that can store snippets of information. They are put there by a web site and only sent back to that same website. They cannot be used to execute any code. The worst they can do is be used to track which sites you browse to and only when those sites contain ad banners from the same banner ad company (such as doubleclick). This amounts to some primitive demographic information which isn't nice but isn't harmful per-se.

Pop-ups are insidious. You only have to click on one once to accidentally execute some code that might install malware on your PC. Once you've done that you're open to others installing themselves and it's a slippery slope. It sounds like a couple of you are infected now and frankly the easiest and most effective solution is to BACKUP YOUR DATA and reinstall windows.

If you're using Windows XP then make sure you install Service Pack 2. Make this the first thing you do after reinstalling the OS. Second thing - install a decent anti-virus (NOT McAfee or Norton).

John
 01/21/2005 01:28:49 PM · #42
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I get pop-ups by the hundreds every time I turn on my PC and I have Adware. I've had it in for repairs twice now, it runs for a week then dies again. It's mostly my internet that freezes and then freezes the whole thing. Could the pop-ups be the problem?

It's driving me nuts.


You are infected with one or more "problem" softwares. Install hijackthis on your computer, but be sure not to run it off your desktop. Make sure you put it in a folder (i.e. c:program files/hijackthis/hifackthis.exe) It seems to run better that way. Once you run it, it's safe to delete anything that has the word "search" in it, or anything that has something to do with shopping or advertising.
Install spybot search and destroy and re install ad-aware from lavasoft, check for updates and run both (not at the same time). Go into your add/remove programs and uninstall anything that says search, shopping, advertising.. and anything that you are sure you did not install. They will tell you that you don't want ot uninstall it and that it's a usefull program. They are wrong. They will also word it with double negatives so you click the wrong button and not unistall (are you really sure you don't want to uninstall?) Empty your recycle bin and reboot. This might clear it up, you may need to go into safe mode, do a search for "zserv" and "btgrab" and delete all of them. Be sure you have the search checking hidden files and folders if you need to do this.
 01/21/2005 01:29:08 PM · #43
Originally posted by floyd:
My advice to nsbca7 and GoldBarry is to reinstall your PC from scratch. Sorry for the bad news guys but it sounds like you've both got some malware installed and despite their assurances Adaware, Spybot and HijackThis DON'T catch everything.

If you're using Windows XP then make sure you install Service Pack 2. Make this the first thing you do after reinstalling the OS. Second thing - install a decent anti-virus (NOT McAfee or Norton).

John


I completely agree with John here, although it is extremely important to note that if you are running Windows XP, the average is that within 6 minutes of connecting the computer back up to Broadband Internet, the computer can be hacked by Windows Attacking Internet Worms and thus reinstall all of the malware you are currently plagued with.

If you do decide that you are going to go the route of reinstalling and currently don't own a broadband router/firewall of some kind, pick one up, get it installed and working and then perform your reinstall of the OS. Once that is done, go immediately to Windows update, install all the updates and then go immediately to www.mozilla.org and download/install Mozilla Firefox 1.0.
 01/21/2005 01:29:44 PM · #44
Thanks, I don't think it'd be worth my time or energy to get mine running again. The basic $500 model at Dell has all the storage and extras I need (which isn't much..hence why so cheap). I just got one at work and it's decent..it won't win me any races, but it runs problem free. *sigh*

I've had two separate IT places gut my PC and install firewalls, pop-up blockers, Adware, etc etc .. it just seems beyond repair at this point.
 01/21/2005 01:36:22 PM · #45
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Thanks, I don't think it'd be worth my time or energy to get mine running again. The basic $500 model at Dell has all the storage and extras I need (which isn't much..hence why so cheap). I just got one at work and it's decent..it won't win me any races, but it runs problem free. *sigh*

I've had two separate IT places gut my PC and install firewalls, pop-up blockers, Adware, etc etc .. it just seems beyond repair at this point.


The problem is that Windows, even with a software firewall, is just unsafe to connect directly to the Internet. You really have to install a seperate broadband router/firewall between your computer and the cable or DSL modem and also swear off of Microsoft Internet Explorer.

The only other option would be to replace Windows with either a MacOSX running machine or some current version of Linux. Currently, there are no known remote exploits for MacOSX that I know of and the default installation settings of most current Linux Distributions are 'hardened' enough that it can take as long as 6 months before the computer could be broken into and the study I read about stated that it was only broken into due to a brute-force password cracking attempt.

Windows XP, without any Service Packs, will be 'taken over' by outside forces within 6 minutes of being connected to the Internet without a hardware firewall between the PC and the broadband connection. That's not even enough time to download and install a single Microsoft Windows Service Pack.

Message edited by author 2005-01-21 13:36:58.
 01/21/2005 01:41:18 PM · #46
I just had XP (with the service pack included) put on our computers at work...our IT guy didn't put on the service packs. I can't remember why, something to do with our network I think...(drawing a blank).

I'd clean off my PC and start from scratch except all my photos are on there and I don't have a DVD burner (that'd be one hell of a lot of CDs to burn). I was told my PC which is 3 years old probably couldn't hold a new DVD burner.
 01/21/2005 01:42:28 PM · #47
Originally posted by floyd:
My advice to nsbca7 and GoldBarry is to reinstall your PC from scratch.


I just go to system restore when I run into anything like that. I have no problem re-installing window if I have to. My os is on a 20gig hd and all my files are on 4 other 200gig and a 160gig hd. They never seem to get problems so I don't have to do anything with them.

But I sure do not enjoy re-installing windows anyway. Best case scanario would be as least a half day of my time.

You said Nortons was not any good. Nortons Antivirus 2005? What would be better? I know a good deal about computers, but most of my computers are offline. I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to how trojans, worms and viruses work even though my son has tried to explain them to me many times. Not my particular field of interest, but I do need a comprehensive antivirus system for this computer.
 01/21/2005 01:48:51 PM · #48
Originally posted by Nelzie:

The problem is that Windows, even with a software firewall, is just unsafe to connect directly to the Internet. You really have to install a seperate broadband router/firewall between your computer and the cable or DSL modem and also swear off of Microsoft Internet Explorer.



I guess that is what the problem is. My crappy netgear router stopped working all together a few days ago (it's six months old) and I hooked the computer directly to the cable modem. That is when I started getting pop-ups.
 01/21/2005 01:50:08 PM · #49
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I just had XP (with the service pack included) put on our computers at work...our IT guy didn't put on the service packs. I can't remember why, something to do with our network I think...(drawing a blank).

I'd clean off my PC and start from scratch except all my photos are on there and I don't have a DVD burner (that'd be one hell of a lot of CDs to burn). I was told my PC which is 3 years old probably couldn't hold a new DVD burner.


Three years old? You should be able to install a DVD-Burner into that PC, no problem. Even if it was a low-end PC at the time that means you have anywhere from a 1100 to 1500 Mhz CPU and anywhere from 128 to 512MB of RAM. Although if it came with Windows XP, I would have to guess it most likely has 256MB of RAM.

Those specs should more then support a DVD-Burner.

I do understand where your work IT Guy is coming from. There's a plethora of software, some of which you may use at work, that might not operate with the latest XP Service Packs. If you aren't experiencing the same problems in the office that you are experiencing at home, it is very likely that the IT Guy has setup a fairly solid firewall with or without a good proxy to protect your office's internal network from the wilds of the Internet.

EDIT: One more thing. If you don't want to spend the money for a DVD-Burner. There are these great USB 'Back-up' drive systems that are much less expensive then a DVD-Burner that can hold quite a bit of data. I saw one recently that was less then $100 US Dollars. Easy to setup, easy to use and inexpensive, just what I like in PC hardware.

Message edited by author 2005-01-21 13:52:38.
 01/21/2005 01:53:05 PM · #50
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by Nelzie:

The problem is that Windows, even with a software firewall, is just unsafe to connect directly to the Internet. You really have to install a seperate broadband router/firewall between your computer and the cable or DSL modem and also swear off of Microsoft Internet Explorer.



I guess that is what the problem is. My crappy netgear router stopped working all together a few days ago (it's six months old) and I hooked the computer directly to the cable modem. That is when I started getting pop-ups.


Ohhhh, yes. That will definitely do it. A good router is a friend forever. Try Linksys.
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