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01/02/2005 06:53:40 PM · #1 |
avg vote cast 3.4329
i entered this (godgiven) site about one month ago
ever since im trying to find a vote behaviour well based and satisfactory to me and the competitors
until now i wait giving my votes not before my own picture has reached a stabile score ..so lets say about 100 votes
than i take this outcome as a kind off main-reference
also the values i set to the points might look a bit like this
10) out of the question
9) almost out of the question
8) knocks me out of my shoes
7) i desire this pic into the top20 of the challenge
6) a very good picture
5) a good picture
4) its got qualities but there are things for improvement
3) not all bad but alot of work to do
2) either its pretty bad or i dont get it
1) out of the question
so this leads to my avg vote cast as it is now
i admit it might give the impression im kinda harsch on the voting wich i actually dont mean to be as i see loads of inspiring amusing intelligent kool exiting surprising pictures
not even to mention the dynamic helpfull comical interesting stimulating comments that are going on in votation and forum
and im rather out on stimulating people than to decourage them
so what do u think are there any good reasons to change my theories about voting exept for that it does not express my apprecation for the stuff i see around here?? |
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01/02/2005 07:02:56 PM · #2 |
So, you're saying that if your picture gives a low average after 100 votes you will DROP your scoring of others accordingly?
Be aware that many of us, me included, presort pictures into two bunches, very wuickly, the first night of the voting. Why? So the danged things don't jump around at random every time we refresh. I sort into 4's and 7's; anything I expect to grade 5 or less goes in 4, everything 6 or more goes in 7. No comments at this stage. Then I go through the 7's and pull out the best of theses and move them up to 8, and the weakest of them and move them down to 6. Then I tackle the 4's, moving some to 3 and some to 5. Now I have a nice, viewable range, and I go to work fine-tuning and commenting.
This means that a lot of 5's start with 4's in my case. A LOT.
Personally, I think your ranking set is skewed; for me a 9 is your 8, and a 10 is "almost" out of the question. I found 3 10's in resolutions, my current high for voting 10's. I rarely give a 2, and not that many 3's. I think I amy have given a couple 1's, but theyhave to be really poor images.
Robt.
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01/02/2005 07:05:14 PM · #3 |
it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, since it's all relative anyways.. but, if you would rather increase this - you could either: a) increase your standards.. ie: you never would give a 10 and rarely a 9? therefore, 8 is the highest you might possibly give.. that's gonna shift the average right there for ya. or b) only vote on images that you want to give 8s or 7s to.. haha, jk.
edit: didn't catch the part about using your score as a reference.. you should not be doing this - basically what you're doing is putting your image at a priority and saying that if you think your image deserves a 7 (which is relatively hard to get as an average for any given image), and you get a 5.. that instead of giving someone a 5, you'll give them a 3? this could be the discrepancy right here.
i tend to judge on a relative basis - my 3 or 4 favorites get 10s, etc etc.. i don't give out many 1s or 2s, though.. but the 10s help me distinguish between what i think should win a ribbon and the others.
Message edited by author 2005-01-02 20:07:56.
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01/02/2005 07:12:19 PM · #4 |
| If you are going to vote THAT low, then at least be fair and vote on every single entry in that challenge, so every photo gets the ....ummm.... honor.... of your scoring system (instead of just knocking down some of them). |
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01/02/2005 07:19:26 PM · #5 |
If that is what you are comfortable with so be it. But always keep in mind how your voting can effect your credability and overall standing in this online community.
I don't see anything wrong with using your own image as a benchmark as long as you factor in your own preceived bias. In some cases when my image is doing a lot worse then I feel it should i simply don't vote on that challenge. |
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01/02/2005 07:22:52 PM · #6 |
Why would you vote 2 thru 9 on a 1 thru 10 scale?
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01/02/2005 07:27:08 PM · #7 |
As others have said it is not a good idea to vote based on your own score, this can too easily turn into a revenge kind of thing where you vote low because you did not get what you thought your photo was worth.
For me I vote a photo that is a bit above average a 6 and one that is a little lower then average a 5.
If you are using your own photo as benchmark you might want to really look at your own photo critically and ask if it is really a better photo then the ones you are voting as 3s and 4s.
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01/02/2005 07:42:12 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by messerschmitt:
avg vote cast 3.4329
...
until now i wait giving my votes not before my own picture has reached a stabile score ..so lets say about 100 votes
than i take this outcome as a kind off main-reference... |
I don't see why your personal score has anyhing to do with your voting pattern. It appears you want to vote down images based on votes you are receiving. IMHO, this is just wrong, and possibly bordering on a TOS violation.
Just my opinion though.
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01/02/2005 07:43:27 PM · #9 |
| I know this isn't possible for some of the recent large challenges, but I try to get through the voting before I hit the update button. It is easy to see that your photo isn't doing well and rate others accordingly. This is unfortunate because it unfairly lowers the scores of those pictures that did not show in the start of your voting cue. Personally I think that dpchallenge is a place for sharing photos and learning from others both in creative aspects of photography as well as the technical ones, rather than a website soley for the purpose of bolstering one's ego. |
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01/02/2005 08:01:49 PM · #10 |
I will apologize up front for the blatant level of honesty you are about to witness.
Messer, if you are guaging your voting process solely on the level of where your own challenge pictures are currently stacking up, then you have done the challengers and yourself a sore injustice.
I have viewed the pics you have submitted so far to challenges. Frankly in the world of DPC, your images deserved the lower rankings of the 4 average that you have been given. While I find that you think quite artistically, you are showing signs of having real problems transferring that concept to the technical aspects of solid contest-winning photography.
It will be hard not to take this personally, but I offer this as a constructive note: You have the concepts but need to work on the presentation finesse. Many of us have a similar problem, but to use our own image as a benchmark for judging others, when our image is less than above average is wrong. It benefits none who are excelling in the presentation and it only perpetuates the lie that you tell yourself that your image is above snapshot or perhaps family album quality.
I urge you to reconsider the way you vote. It is unfair and may even be considered vengeful voting that could cost you the benefits of sharing in this community.
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01/02/2005 08:02:36 PM · #11 |
why is a ten out of the question? it's a voting scale based on 1-10, not 2-9.
"WOW that is the best photo i have ever seen (besides my own of course), I just HAVE to give it a 9 (out of 10)!!!"
I don't understand that reasoning.
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01/02/2005 08:05:51 PM · #12 |
I am a relative newcomer, but have decided for myself not to vote in challenges in which I have an entry. For one thing, voting on all the challenges becomes quite a chore in itself, and this seems to me as reasonible a way as any to determine which ones to vote on and which ones to sit out. Also, by not voting on every challenge, I have more time in which to make comments. My current goal is to comment on a minimum of 20% of entries as per graphicfunk's suggestion. I'm sure, though, that the next mega challenge of 400+ entries will take a toll on that!
As for a voting scale, it has been noted many times that 5.5 is actually the average on a scale of 1-10. Since that isn't an option, I have begun to lean towards scoring a 6 to a pretty good photo that in my opinion meets the challenge. Little niggling doubts may drop that to a 5. I too give few 10s (but some), and vastly fewer 1s. I don't agree with the sentiment that 1s and 10s should never be used.
Lastly, I have decided to only bump scores in the "up" direction when fine-tuning my voting. If I have given a 6 but upon later review decide that it should have been 5, I still won't lower the score. Benefit of the doubt kind of thing: if it was a 6 on my first impulse, it stays a 6. Plus I know the disappointment in seeing my score decline, especially if I am, say, barely holding onto a 5.0001 and then it drops below that magic threshold.
Hope these thoughts are helpful to you. As was said earlier, we all do it a little differntly, and it all comes out in the wash. This is just one DPCer's method. |
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01/02/2005 08:09:41 PM · #13 |
i sincerely thank u for sharing ur thoughts about the subject
i read them carefully and try to get out something positive out of them
i just wanna add that:
1) when i vote i rate every pic in the challenge i vote/participate in
2) it does not neccesarily mean i rate my own photo higher than a 4
accordingly my own value-scale (save me for submit pics of rate 3)
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01/02/2005 08:20:30 PM · #14 |
Since there is no established method or rubric for the site, it is up to the individual how he or she votes. I honestly think that is a good idea. It is interesting to see the different methods offered up by various users. Many of them are very specific, and that can be helpful (in education those specifics grouped together are called rubrics).
I use the site to teach my students artistic critique methods. The conventions of symbolism and communication through image offer the opportunity to develop and enhance higher level thinking skills. I love to listen to them discuss and critique images. I lack the knowledge and don't feel as confident when it comes to the technical aspects of photography, and with the help of many brilliant and generous members, my students and I are learning that together. We have learned about dof, lighting techniques, camera equipment, software, methods for using the "virtual" darkroom, workflow for images and so much more.
Most members here focus on the technical aspects of the image. I find very little artistic critique, but that is okay by me. This site pushes me like no other to pay attention to the technical details and improve my skills. In the end, the votes seem to balance out with no one voter throwing too much weight. It is a great site and I appreciate most comments whether they be harshly critical or generously supportive. |
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01/02/2005 08:59:35 PM · #15 |
I don't even know what to say about this. just disgraceful if you ask me. Voting like that mocks what this site stands for. I was just talking about this kind of stuff in another thread. I think too many people vote this way. Same people that were talking me down in School and judging me for what kind of gym shorts I wore. If you think the photos on this site are that bad, then why are you here? I agree with Arcanist when he says quote 'Frankly in the world of DPC, your images deserved the lower rankings of the 4 average that you have been given.'
You have some nerve voting me low because no one liked your stuff.
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01/02/2005 09:07:50 PM · #16 |
[ If you think the photos on this site are that bad, then why are you here?
i suggest u do some re-reading |
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01/02/2005 09:21:11 PM · #17 |
As long as you vote on EVERY image in a challenge, I don't personally care. If you're only lowballing a select few then I care. The only thing you're really doing is lowering everyone's score the same if you never give 9's or 10's.
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01/02/2005 09:27:57 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by messerschmitt:
[ If you think the photos on this site are that bad, then why are you here?
i suggest u do some re-reading |
Your avg vote tells all. I don't care why you do it personally.
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01/02/2005 09:45:02 PM · #19 |
3.44 am
im off to bed
just wanted to add
my thread was meant to questionize that 'ugly' avg vote cast
and was looking for reasons to upgrade my scale and do justice to
submissions
as i said i really like this site and i tried to put in words how
much i enjoy the submissions (apparently not all people had the will to interpret it like this)
its obvious this low avg is in shrill contrast with these contemplations
so im gonna work on that
goodnight
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01/02/2005 09:57:56 PM · #20 |
It is simple to me; I just stick to my voting scale and try to vote on every entry if possible NO matter where my ‘photograph’ currently sits. If my photograph is scoring low I still vote every photograph as if I was not participating in the challenge. Why should my picture’s average vote and amount of votes come in to play when I’m voting? It shouldn’t! I think my voting scale works well for me, I do not think I have had a single vote discarded by DPC and my average vote cast is 5.0220.
Just in case you want to view my VOTING SCALE
NOTE: It took me a while to get in a comfort zone of voting.
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01/03/2005 09:42:58 PM · #21 |
I believe that what messerscmitt posted here were some candid thoughts in process. The ideal behaviour is not suddenly grasped by a new comer.
It is also apparent that candid feelings at the start of an experience tend to be very transitory. It is like he is saying, look I started in this manner and somehow I am not that happy. The very fact that the party is looking to improve his average vote cast proves this. It is a new member feeling its way about.
There are many obstacles to overcome. I recall my first entry wherein I uploaded the wrong file and someway down another wrong file. There is anguish and there is uncertainty. Then there is the forum with its pitfalls when we fail to express succintly what we feel.
DPC has many talented members and no matter how good our ideas, we will be competing with the best. It takes us all a few weeks, months, to realize that we are forced to get better and better if we are to survive.
All in all, I would not dwell too deeply and cut a little slack because when people are sincere they are self correcting. As times goes by we change the way we vote and sometimes even the way we take our pictures.
As far as I am concerned, welcome to DPC and you will note that there are many lessons to be learned. That is why we are all here.
Message edited by author 2005-01-03 21:48:44. |
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01/03/2005 09:55:59 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
Why would you vote 2 thru 9 on a 1 thru 10 scale? |
Perhaps because one didn't find a photo horrible enough to deserve a one, nor one terrific enough to warrant a ten? |
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01/03/2005 09:57:59 PM · #23 |
In 655 pictures he's voted on? The scale is 1 to 10. He said 1 and 10 were out of the question, in other words, he would vote NO picture "horrible enough" and no picture "terrific enough" ever.
M
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01/03/2005 10:05:52 PM · #24 |
It does not matter what the scale is. The scale is only a way of presenting parameters. I never use the entire 1 to 10. I do not have enough wisdom to gauge 1 to 10. I constrain myself with 5 categories.
Many other voters have different systems that have been discussed before. We each find what works best for us. I am just starting to grow comfortable. It took me like two months to feel I was doing my best and then I continue to tweak my patterns. Not all of us are that enlightenned. |
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01/03/2005 10:08:54 PM · #25 |
I think the problem is defining what 'average' is, for a newcomer.
On the resolutions challenge, I waited to see how my first submission did, and it hovered just over a 5, so I decided my submission was 'average' for the site, and rated accordingly on the first challenge I voted on.
From what I gleaned on a similar thread, my 'average' vote on that challenge was probably .5 - .75 lower than what the normal rater does, so I'll shift accordingly up next challenge. I did rate every photograph, so if I was low it would affect everyone the same.
As for one shifting their scale depending on how their submission is doing at a particular time, well, I have an ethical problem with that. Once you have a standard that appears close to the norm, stick to it.
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