Deja Vu - My first DQ, ): - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

12/21/2004 02:44:06 PM · #26

Originally posted by Jinjit:

Originally posted by MWitt:
Last night when I checked it the score was 5.7. So, not great, but nothing to complain about. (:

Really?? How come it was that low?
I also join the crowds here with my condolence on your, or actually our loss. Great picture and wonderful work!

Thanks,

I can't answer that one, I thought it should be a ten! LOL :D

Pedro

Nikon D200

12/21/2004 02:51:18 PM · #27

Originally posted by EddyG:

Originally posted by nshapiro:
Question: How does a DQ figure into (affect) your average?

At present time, it doesn't. But lengthy discussions have been underway amongst the SC in regards to changing this down the road. No decisions have been made yet, but many of us feel that some sort of penalty is necessary to prevent "DQ abuse", where a low-scoring image is "intentionally" removed from a challenge by not submitting proof when requested, etc.

I vote for a big black 'X' on your forehead on your profile pic for...say...one year, and in place of your name, it should say "Pagan".

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

12/21/2004 03:00:59 PM · #28

Crucifixion. Out of the door. Line on the left. One cross each.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/21/2004 04:15:58 PM · #29

This is for you Artan for suggesting that my photo be DQ'd.

All in jest of course! (:

Artan

Canon Digital IXUS v3

12/21/2004 04:21:15 PM · #30

Originally posted by MWitt:

This is for you Artan for suggesting that my photo be DQ'd.

All in jest of course! (:

touche ;)

and still ducking

ADGibson

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/21/2004 09:28:03 PM · #31

Thanks for sharing MWitt. Now the rest of us know for future submissions. Even the SC didn't like this DQ. Sounds like they felt cornered by the submission rules. It's a GREAT shot.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

12/21/2004 09:38:33 PM · #32

If that is a problem, we could have a separate category for images removed for non-complaince with guidelines, as opposed to DQ for images that attempt to circumvent the rules in some way, or for which proof cannot be offered. In other words, there's confusion and there's duplicity. When in doubt, remove on presumption of confusion, and save DQs for blatant attempts to "cheat." Do we even get many of those? I'm new here.

robt.

jbsmithana

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4.0G IF-ED

12/21/2004 09:45:26 PM · #33

Originally posted by EddyG:

Damn! I never thought of that. LOL
I was asked to send in verification on my submission to Classy Christmas Decorations. It is doing worse than any submission to date! But I never considered withdrawing it. You pays your money and you takes your chances. : )

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

12/21/2004 09:57:11 PM · #34

That's a silly DQ. Is it me or is SC usually too literal in their rulings?

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

12/21/2004 11:09:41 PM · #35

Originally posted by MWitt:

I greatly admire your attitude, especially considering what we all went through after the last DQ!

I may be wrong here, but I do believe mine was the last photo DQ'd in a recent challenge. I erred in that I submitted a Christmas photo in the Deja Vu challenge. I do believe you would be alluding the the "Freekin Bullcrap" diatribe.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

12/21/2004 11:13:30 PM · #36

MWitt, I would be remiss if I did not mention the fact that I also admire your attitude in this instance. It is indeed refreshing to note that you took this setback in stride,and sought out assistance from fellow members, rather than lashing out at the SC.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/21/2004 11:23:59 PM · #37

Originally posted by dsb_mac:

That's a silly DQ. Is it me or is SC usually too literal in their rulings?

We feel obliged to apply the rules consistently ... otherwise there wouldn't be any rules -- we could just decide what or whom we liked.

12/22/2004 12:32:18 AM · #38

Originally posted by Artan:

Originally posted by MWitt:
This is for you Artan for suggesting that my photo be DQ'd.

All in jest of course! (:

touche ;)

and still ducking

LOL!! This has got to be one of my most favorite sound bites! I can listen to it over and over.

12/22/2004 12:33:43 AM · #39

Originally posted by DoFear:

Thanks for sharing MWitt. Now the rest of us know for future submissions. Even the SC didn't like this DQ. Sounds like they felt cornered by the submission rules. It's a GREAT shot.

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. (:

12/22/2004 12:38:37 AM · #40

Originally posted by dsb_mac:

That's a silly DQ. Is it me or is SC usually too literal in their rulings?

I think it was a good call by SC. I was hoping for a little Christmas charity from SC, seeing how it is the season that is about giving, but no luck. (;

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/22/2004 01:07:25 AM · #41

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by dsb_mac:
That's a silly DQ. Is it me or is SC usually too literal in their rulings?

We feel obliged to apply the rules consistently ... otherwise there wouldn't be any rules -- we could just decide what or whom we liked.

I'm not saying it's easy but there's the letter of the law and the spirit of the law -SC always seems to go with the letter. In my opinion, human judgment is there to correct system errors with common sense not robotically enforce technicalities. I have the feeling if SC was the police, and saw me doing 51 in a 50 zone, they'd ticket me.

Canon EOS-20D

12/22/2004 01:28:18 AM · #42

The problem with judging based on the "spirit of the law" is where is the line drawn? I have a good number of friends on this site...if I didn't stick strictly to my interpretation of the rules, it'd be pretty easy to let any issues with their photos slide. I don't know you from Adam so you probably wouldn't get any leniency. Some days when I come here, I'm cranky. I'd probably be much more likely to vote DQ on those days than I would be on happier days. Tough luck for the unfortunate folks who suffer the wrath of my bad day. Etc.

I didn't really want to DQ MWitt's photo. It was a good photo, it was an unfortunate issue with the rules and MWitt's graciousness in the whole ordeal made it even more difficult. But it's important to me that I vote consistantly and not based on personal feeling because overall, that just wouldn't be fair.

Beetle

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/22/2004 01:30:18 AM · #43

Originally posted by dsb_mac:

dsb_mac, I feel sorry for MWitt that his photo was disqualified.

However, imagine the following scenario:
Lets say YOU thought that the drainpipe pic would be THE BEST one to try, but you realize that it wouldn't be legal. So you use a different photo, even though you're disappointed.
Then comes voting time and you find that someone else DID choose that photo and is NOT getting DQed for it....... I bet you'd be pretty mad about your lost opportunity.
The SC HAS to stick to the rules or be accused of favoritism, surely you can see that?

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/22/2004 02:10:10 AM · #44

Originally posted by dsb_mac:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by dsb_mac:
That's a silly DQ. Is it me or is SC usually too literal in their rulings?

We feel obliged to apply the rules consistently ... otherwise there wouldn't be any rules -- we could just decide what or whom we liked.

I'm not saying it's easy but there's the letter of the law and the spirit of the law -SC always seems to go with the letter. In my opinion, human judgment is there to correct system errors with common sense not robotically enforce technicalities. I have the feeling if SC was the police, and saw me doing 51 in a 50 zone, they'd ticket me.

Perhaps if you were driving the wrong way down a one-way street. There are rules where we DO have to exercise judgement about the "spirit of the rules," for example when someone uses a filter, or clone elements in or out. Then we have to decide how much is too much, and it's not a pleasant task ... I'd much rather leave it up to the voters.

This however, is a clearcut yes/no rule -- it says no added type right there in the ruleset linked from the submission page. I personally first advocated an exception, but in the end the arguments for no exception proved slightly more fair and valid and were ultimately adopted.

12/22/2004 03:17:43 AM · #45

Originally posted by Beetle:

Lets say YOU thought that the drainpipe pic would be THE BEST one to try, but you realize that it wouldn't be legal. So you use a different photo, even though you're disappointed.
Then comes voting time and you find that someone else DID choose that photo and is NOT getting DQed for it....... I bet you'd be pretty mad about your lost opportunity.
The SC HAS to stick to the rules or be accused of favoritism, surely you can see that?

Interesting reply. I'll answer not to be adversarial but to explore the issue. I appreciate the SC for what they do.

As for the hypothetical situation about "getting mad". I wouldn't get mad. Rather I would consider myself petty if I did. It sounds childish, especially if the person unknowingly broke an almost hidden rule that most likely shouldn't have been there for this particular challenge (ppl on this thread were unsure of why he got DQ'd at all until SC clarified it). I don't think you can make the decision on a basis of "hurt feelings" as you described because I'm sure MWitt was bummed as well (whose feelings are more important??). The situation needs to be looked at from another perspective (eg Letter or Spirit discussion).

12/22/2004 03:19:04 AM · #46

I'll offer my own hypothetical situation to ponder ; ) The issue was raised that SC has to be consistent. To say that SC must be consistent in its application of legitmancy for entries is perhaps somewhat of an illusion. How many photos do you think in any given competion are illegal but aren't caught? I would venture to say that much of DPC runs on goodwill. SC doesn't verify that every single entry in every challenge adheres to all rules. It's impossible. People click off 3 boxes, maybe a 4th if they're feeling lucky about receiving critique, and the voting begins. How many photos are spot edited but no one knows the wiser? Do I get mad that a photo was illegally edited and didn't get Dairy Queened? Do I tick off "Recommend this photograph for DQ" for every single photo, demanding it be verified to ensure compliance? No, that's silly. What would happen if SC had to validate every single photo? That's the illusion I'm referring to; that entries are consistently verified for legitamancy. Which leads us back to goodwill, judgment, and the spirit of the law.

Maybe, I'm just an altruistic fool. : p