Composition According To Pedro - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/16/2004 02:40:31 PM · #1

In an effort not to Highjack Setz's "Tens" thread, I figured I'd start another which is an indirect response to the latest posts to it. Let me preface with the following:

1. I've never taken a course in art or photography;
2. I rarely read about photography;
3. I constantly examine other peoples' photos.
4. I have no false illusions about my place in the photography world. I don't profess to be an expert or anything close to it.

So anything I say below is purely my uneducated and perhaps ill-informed opinion. But it is nonetheless my opinion.

The Birth of Composition - 80% of the time, I don't find the inspiration for a photo; it finds me. As I wander with my camera, my brain is working like a time-lapse image recorder. Every few seconds it freezes whatever I'm looking at and makes some random assessment of whether or not it looks like it may make a decent photo. I'm aware of some of the rules, but frequently break them or modify them (e.g., the Rule of Thirds often becomes the Rule of Quarters or Fifths - mostly just don't put stuff in the middle) I used to shoot hundreds of photos on an outing, and then sifted through afterwards. I'm slowly getting better at assessing the images through the lens rather than on my screen, so I'm now getting a higher percentage of 'Keepers'.

When I shoot models they generally make fun of me because I never tell them what to do directly. I roughly set up the situation, then wander aimlessly muttering to myself and slinking around like a cat on catnip playing with perspectives and angles and lighting until something grabs me.

The above photos are examples of things that just 'happened'.

Far less frequently I get an idea in my head and then try to create it. I've had a few successes doing it that way;

...but generally they fall flat on their face because I can rarely capture in pixels what i see in my head. It's a bit like trying to remember a dream; while it's in your head it makes perfect sense, but as soon as you try to explain it, it enters the ridiculous.

With First Snow

the idea came before the photo. I knew the subject, the location, and the effect I wanted. So I went out and bought the flowers (my mom was pleased since she got them afterwards :)), drove to the location, placed the flower as I saw it in my head, and took the pic. I tried a few different angles etc, but the one I chose was almost exactly as I had envisioned. (Come on, you didn't really think a daisy would survive in -20 C weather and snow, did ya? :) ) Truth is it's not really my kind of photo; I don't like it much.

Compositional Brushstrokes - As I said, I don't tend to follow rules so much, but there are a few broad guidelines that seem to be in the photos that I like best. I think our job as photographers is to subtly persuade the viewer to see things the way we want them to. Interesting perspectives, leading lines, lighting contrast, colour contrast, depth of field, and natural framing are all examples of how we can do this. Using one or more of these techniques can be used to isolate your subject. The absence of them tends to let the viewer go their own way, often missing your point which is why so many people mistakenly think that the general public 'doesn't get it' (don't get me started).

Lines.........................................Light........................Colour........................Shallow Depth...........................Framing

in these examples...what choice do you have? The technique makes you see what they want you to see, therefore people usually get it.

Sorry this got so long...apparently I've had too much caffeine this morning. I hope it makes some sense to someone....anyone.

P-ness.

Message edited by author 2004-12-16 16:22:47.

mariomel

Canon EOS-5D

12/16/2004 02:56:50 PM · #2

Peter, I think I've said it before, sometime ago. You and I should meet. We have very similar characteristics when it comes to photography.

Thanks for putting this down into words.

Kylie

Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ35

12/16/2004 03:08:02 PM · #3

Pedro - you already know the awe and respect I hold for you. Now I have even more. You just put into words, so intelligently and eloquently, something I also believe and try to use in my much more limited way. Great, great post that I hope many read and can benefit so much from. Thank you!!!

DianaB

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

12/16/2004 03:19:00 PM · #4

It works for you Pedro, there's some super photos on your profile!

parrothead

Canon EOS-40D

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

12/16/2004 03:21:40 PM · #5

Great job Pedro! Your work is beautiful and spontanious, and your vision and understanding are to be admired!

HornOUBet

Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II

Panasonic Lumix G 25mm f/1.7 ASPH

12/16/2004 03:27:20 PM · #6

Great lesson, valuable insight....thanks for the time and effort...

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

12/16/2004 04:06:15 PM · #7

Pedro,
Thank you for a Great post. I know by reading your post it will broaden my boundaries. Thank for taking the time!

thatcloudthere

Canon EOS-1D

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

12/16/2004 04:37:19 PM · #8

I think you are an incredible photographer and it's a true gift that you're able to succinctly describe part of the method to your beautiful madness!

Much appreciated...

jenesis

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

12/16/2004 04:38:31 PM · #9

AHHHHhhh, Very insightful Grasshopper! :-p

I just had to state this, that thanks to you taking the time awhile ago to give me some unsolicited advice and help on some of my photos, I think I've become a wee bit better at seeing things and making my photos look the way I'd imagine them to. And if they're not really better ;-D, at least I'm having more fun!

And now you're taking your wisdom to the DPC world. ;-) Thanks for that Mr. P! Just another example of some of the great folks that lurk around this site.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM II

12/16/2004 06:28:08 PM · #10

I appreciate the comments guys. I didn't really intend to ramble that much, it just sorta happened. What struck me was how easy it was to find brilliant examples of the concepts on DPC. I just pulled up my favourites and there they were.

@Mario - I promise I'll call next time I'm in La Belle Province.

I'd be interested to hear from the 5 fotogs who took the pics I posted to see how they do it, and if they were thinking about those things when the shot them (I bet I know the answer ;))

P-ness

Mark of SRQ

Canon EOS-7D

12/16/2004 07:19:16 PM · #11

Pedro, during the "yellow Revisited" challenge, I was kind of disappointed with my score during the voting stage. More so, I had been getting a lot of comments that my photo didn't meet the challenge (4 of the first 6 comments. They liked the picture, but said it didn't meet the challenge). Then along came this comment:

"nice contrast. the yellow definitely provides the impact. i hope most people get that. a little halo-ing around the beak from sharpening, but otherwise perfectly processed. nice shot."

It was from you. After that, I felt totally alright. I didn't care about my score anymore. One of the most respected photographers on this site vindicated my photo. Since your comment, I had gotten plenty of other great comments about it meeting the challenge. Also some from those who didn't think so. But my score steadily rose, and in the end I was happy with the results (Okay, I still cared a little about my score).

Just wanted to say thank you. And thank you to everyone for your comments on my photo (even the ones who said it didn't meet the challenge. I had a feeling that might happen as you can see from my comments on the photo)

Here's the photo (and this is not a plug for the print. I genuinely wanted to thank Pedro for the great comment, and tell him what it meant
to me. I hadn't yet and this is the perfect thread to do it.)

Mark

Jacko

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/16/2004 07:32:28 PM · #12

Coll pics. Let's get smashed Peter.

saintnicholas_25

Sony DSC-P73

12/16/2004 07:39:08 PM · #13

Originally posted by Pedro:

1. I've never taken a course in art or photography;
2. I rarely read about photography;
3. I constantly examine other peoples' photos.
4. I have no false illusions about my place in the photography world. I don't profess to be an expert or anything close to it.

An expert in photography is not measured by the amount of qualifications you have or the amount of text you read, It is measured throught the vision you capture through the lens and the impact left on those who view them

The impact of your photos are admired by many people on this site and I give you great thanks for sharing your teniques and talent with us

so Thankyou and hope you win more ribbons

12/16/2004 09:39:12 PM · #14

Originally posted by Jacko:

Coll pics. Let's get smashed Peter.

crabappl3

12/16/2004 09:44:59 PM · #15

Hey Pedro thanks for using my photo in your example. I was quite surprised.

I am much like you, as I'm looking at a scene I'm always moving trying to find the spot that I feel is the correct spot for the shot. Do the elements compliment each other, do I have good light, how are my colors and background elements. Most the time I'm not actively thinking about all these things, I just feel it.

For my shot

it was taken from with a bus while the driver stopped long enough for us to take a photo. I handheld a gradient neutral density filter in front of the lens. The pre-cropped shot had some added mountain on both the left and right, but I felt they didn't add to the overall composition of the image. I cropped in an 8x10 aspect and remove elements that didn't enhance my shot. I use cropping quite often to make the photo the strongest it can be. I think too often people accept what is in their original framing of the shot and don't try other crops. Quite often when we remove 'clutter' we can make the main subject stronger. In the case of 'Road to Denali', I believe the removal of the extra mountain range I put the main focus on the road and the mountain. So the quick shot out of a bus window was enhanced by looking at it in post production and removing that which wasn't needed.

Thanks for your thread... as always, good stuff!

-danny

Alecia

Canon EOS-10D

12/17/2004 12:16:31 AM · #16

thanks peter, for using peek as one of your examples. like you and crabby, i dont really actively think about things like rules of thirds (sometimes i actually do like to center things) and all the other stuff--it's just there, as crabby said, something that is felt. when it feels right, and everything seems to click, i take the shot.

i guess once you start getting a feel for photography, it just becomes a subconcious thing; a new way of seeing--almost second nature. it occurs to me that i see everything now through my subconcious mind-lens, that i size everything up as i would if i were taking a picture. i know this because these days, i find myself saying fairly frequently-'man, i wish i had my camera with me'. which is cool, but can be a hazard when trying to communicate normally with people while in your head you are treating them as subjects. :) sometimes people laugh at me cause i'll be talking to them but my brain is analyzing how a particular expression or the way they look in certain lighting would translate to a photograph. my friends are pretty used to it--strangers just probably think i'm a little odd. ;)

many of my shots are set up--predetermined at least somewhat in my head. even a lot of my people stuff, from shooting fashion for so long, i just got in the habit of telling my models the sort of mood i wanted to see--but always let them get there on their own, as it makes for a way more comfortable and natural shot. then some of my favorite shots, such as peek, by the sea, the cellist, etc., are shots that just happened. sometimes you just get lucky.

peek was a complete accident--lazlo poked his head out from behind the curtain to see us standing in the yard--and it was magic. thank goodness i had just been taking group snapshots of my friends, or i would have missed it. as it was, i couldn't believe he how perfect he was--looking so cute and funny with that one eye staring at us. so no, i didn't think about anything at all, because i was afraid i would miss it--it felt right so i grabbed it while i could. i didnt have time to analyze the shot, but i didnt really have to, it just felt right. i barely took the time to set the shutter and aperture--but this is one of those situations where it really pays to know and understand your basics. i only got a few shots of him, but was able to get a couple different framing options, but this one worked the best. and thats about it. :)